Stats say NFL's scariest deep threat-Lelie

[KansasBronco]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ems/index.html

Something to read. Funny how at camp there is talk about Lelie improving his short and medium range game. This stat guy reveals he was aweful in those places last year.

The Bailey stats were interesting!

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by KansasBronco

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ems/index.html

Something to read. Funny how at camp there is talk about Lelie improving his short and medium range game. This stat guy reveals he was aweful in those places last year.

The Bailey stats were interesting!

Well this is why stats can be misleading. Aside from an article that took far far too long to get to the point (and eventually miss it), it has several fallacies in it.

Lellie is definitely good at going deep so we used him that way quite a bit. If you do anything like that enough, you are going to have higher stats at that than anyone else. Toward the end of the season they starting keying on that played off of him quite a bit. That Lelie led the BFL in 20+ yard TD's doesn't mean that he is the best in the NFL at it, it just means that we used him that way more.

Bailey getting beat deep had a lot to do with new rules and the type of offenses that we played that year (which have been modified for the new rule-calling). On paper it might look a certain way, and if this was one on one drills, than I would agree, but we don't know whether or not coverage was blown, or if someone missed their assignments. Our crappy pass rush makes our corners have work extra hard and look half as bad, but that doesn't show up on a stat sheet either.

[Old Dude]

On the positive side, maybe Lelie's "deep threat" abilities will earn him a little more of a cushion on the shorter routes this year.

[bronco militia]

But the observation Joyner affords on every team, while I didn't agree with all of them, are striking because they are based on non-emotional, non-promotional facts. His facts.

Some random observations ... on the Broncos' wideout Ashley Lelie, for instance: "It isn't a stretch to say that Lelie was possibly the most dangerous deep threat in the NFL last season. He had the second most deep passes thrown to him, and ranked 20th in deep pass completion percentage (42 percent). He only faced tight/good coverage 24 percent of the time on deep passes, ranking him 11th in the league, and was open by two or more steps on deep passes 11 percent of the time. His success on deep routes made his overall yards per attempt the seventh highest in the league.

"It's a damn good thing Lelie was good at deep passes because he frankly stunk at the other depth levels."

Or on consensus All-Pro cornerback Champ Bailey: "Bailey was 79th in deep yards (first being the fewest), tied for 73rd in deep completion percentage, tied for 16th most in deep attempts, tied for 69th in deep TDs ... Bailey wasn't just beaten deep; he was targeted for deep passes quite frequently."

[Atlas]

I don't worry about Lelie at all. He is going to be a good WR for a long time.

[Lidderer]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

If you do anything like that enough, you are going to have higher stats at that than anyone else.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'd love to see the ranges for corners. I'd bet 1 completion or 1 TD could move you 10-15 spots in each direction for those rankings. If there was a gap where Champ was significantly worse in one area, then there might be a reason for concern.

and Lelie is not the best deep threat in the NFL. Besides the Saints, did he actually make a football move for any of his TDs? He's either behind his man or goes up for a jump ball on almost all his deep balls.

[SoCalBronco]

Great to see ASH getting props. Well deserved.

[Lidderer]

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

I'd love to see the ranges for corners. I'd bet 1 completion or 1 TD could move you 10-15 spots in each direction for those rankings. If there was a gap where Champ was significantly worse in one area, then there might be a reason for concern.

and Lelie is not the best deep threat in the NFL. Besides the Saints, did he actually make a football move for any of his TDs? He's either behind his man or goes up for a jump ball on almost all his deep balls.

he's been underthrown a few times. but otherwise that's spot-on.

[SoCalBronco]

I dont know what made me more happy, seeing Lelie get props from a national publication for his great season, or Atlas's latest avatar.

[Beantown Bronco]

This is full of problems, as all "ranking" systems are.....one big one being, how does this guy rank corners who play zone? or who don't get the necessary safety help over the top and leave their man by design? Any ranking system that puts Champ out of the top 5 or so, much less in the 70s, has serious flaws.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Lelie made great strides in 2004. He was a lot more consistent. His 20.1 YPC average led the league.

He needs to improve on his intermediate routes and he can really elevate his game to the next plateau. If he makes more strides in 2005, his first round status will be fully justified.

The thing that I like most about Lelie is that he makes some jump ball type grabs that only the most gifted WRs make. If he can improve on his 2004 effort, get a little meaner, and work on the intermediate routes while maintaining the ability to make those special grabs, then we could have a heck of a WR on our hands.

SSJ

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

This is full of problems, as all "ranking" systems are.....one big one being, how does this guy rank corners who play zone? or who don't get the necessary safety help over the top and leave their man by design? Any ranking system that puts Champ out of the top 5 or so, much less in the 70s, has serious flaws.

If there are 500 of you out there who simply must have this book, even though it bears a $49.95 price tag, then the money KC spent to publish it himself will be covered. You can get it by e-mailing him at KC@thefootballscientist.com, or writing to him at Box 161605 Altamonte Springs, Fla., 32716-1605.


it shouldn't take a genius or a bunch of stats to figure out that Bailey struggled at times in 2004.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Imagine if Lelie had a real QB...

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Imagine if Lelie had a real QB...

imagine the chiefs without their OL......

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

imagine the chiefs without their OL......

Stop deflecting!

[bronco militia]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Stop deflecting!

bwhahahaha!

it works both ways, buddy

[FADERPROOF]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Stop deflecting!

Which brings me back to a point on made on another thread, the thing that seperates the others can take the heat of an argument, bob can't.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by bronco militia

bwhahahaha!

it works both ways, buddy

Talking about the Chiefs offensive line in a thread about Lelie HAS NO RELEVANCE!!!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by FADERPROOF

Which brings me back to a point on made on another thread, the thing that seperates the others can take the heat of an argument, bob can't.

Um, right. I guess that's why I stick around more than any other Chiefs fan?

[FADERPROOF]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Um, right. I guess that's why I stick around more than any other Chiefs fan?

You stick around because you're a glutton for punishment, plus we treat you better here than your own fans do.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Originally Posted by FADERPROOF

You stick around because you're a glutton for punishment, plus we treat you better here than your own fans do.

Not really true, my rep is maxed out over at CP.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Talking about the Chiefs offensive line in a thread about Lelie HAS NO RELEVANCE!!!

Neither does saying that Denver doesnt have a QB, even though he tossed for over 4,000 yards last year and hit Lelie on an average of 20.1 yards per catch.

[FADERPROOF]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Not really true, my rep is maxed out over at CP.

Your rep here is about to be mexed out as well, in neg reps.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Bob's your Information Minister

Not really true, my rep is maxed out over at CP.

They like you a little more than they did before but on the whole your still reviled. You are treated better here even when one considers that we rag on you alot.