Ravens always seem to be a step ahead of everyone else when it comes to D

[labronx]

We and other teams jumped on the bandwagon with the whole 2 massive-tackles and let the MLB make plays after they won the Bowl and then they had success with the 3-4 and we copied them again.

What's next?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2084252



Scheme should aid LB's freelancing

Associated Press
Related Video:
Reports to halfway house in Atlanta

OWINGS MILLS, Md. -- No one is happier to be a part of the Baltimore Ravens' new 46 defense than middle linebacker Ray Lewis, who can't wait to again experience the freedom of hunting down running backs without the hassle of shaking off bothersome offensive linemen.

The scheme was originally devised by Buddy Ryan for the 1986 Chicago Bears, who won a Super Bowl behind the standout play of middle linebacker Mike Singletary. Ryan is the father of Ravens first-year defensive coordinator Rex Ryan, who has installed the high-pressure alignment in part to allow Lewis to attack the football without having to take on the kind of isolation blocks that at times limited his effectiveness last season.

"That's like telling your premier running back that you're going to make sure he's not going to be touched in a football game,'' Lewis said Monday after the opening session of a four-day mandatory minicamp. "To come into camp and have my defensive coordinator tell me I'm not going to be touched, I'm like a little kid all over again.''

Playing last season in the 3-4 alignment of defensive coordinator Mike Nolan, who left to become head coach of the San Francisco 49ers, Lewis led the Ravens with 200 tackles and was selected to play in the Pro Bowl for a seventh time. But his effectiveness was dependent upon his ability to battle through the isolation blocks of opposing linemen.

That shouldn't be a problem this season.

"We're excited about getting the bull's-eye off Ray Lewis,'' Rex Ryan said. "He doesn't need to be a nose guard this year. We should be in great shape against the running game. You don't have a blocker for Ray.''

Head coach Brian Billick said, "It fits Ray and his expertise in the middle. I can't speak for Ray, but I would think he's very excited about the potential this holds.''

Now in his 10th season, Lewis made a name for himself early in his career by tracking down running backs and dropping them with a ferocious tackle. If all goes as planned, he will return to that role in 2005.

"That's what I do. I don't try to bash people and try to get to the football. I get to the running back,'' Lewis said. "No running back wants to face me in this league.''

The Ravens' defense last year restricted Lewis from running free, but he accepted his role and performed as best he could under the circumstances.

"It's tough, because you have to humble yourself and take coaching and do whatever they tell you to do,'' Lewis said. "Whether it takes away from your game or helps it, you just deal with it. That's what I did. It didn't alter how I prepared, it didn't alter my passion for the game. But at the same time, it alters how dominant I can be.''

It was a different kind of offseason for Lewis, who decided to taper his relentless workouts in favor of letting his mind and body heal following a disappointing 9-7 season that ended without a trip to the playoffs.

"Usually I'm right back at it in three weeks, but this year I took two months off,'' he said. "I got away from being involved in anything that had to do with football. Instead, I dealt with my family and kids.''

There has been speculation that Lewis would be a holdout at camp because he wants to re-negotiate his contract, but he attended a voluntary session last week and insisted that money matters are not weighing on his mind.

"Now is not the time to speak about a contract,'' he said.

Running back Jamal Lewis, who is serving time at a halfway house in Atlanta, and Terrell Suggs, who is being tried in Arizona on assault charges, were among those missing at Monday's session. Defensive back Deion Sanders was excused to take care of a personal issue.

[TheNextStep]

I'm just sayin' here... but nobody copied the Ravens' 3-4 defense. Everyone copied New England's 3-4 defense... including the Ravens.

[Clockwork Orange]

Oh drat, does this mean that we won't get to hear Ray Ray whining like a school girl with a skinned knee on Monday Night Football again?

[labronx]

Originally Posted by TheNextStep

I'm just sayin' here... but nobody copied the Ravens' 3-4 defense. Everyone copied New England's 3-4 defense... including the Ravens.

well the 3-4 was run by Pitt before Belli came to NE.
I dont know about Balt copying NE aren't the Ravens and Pitt in the same division?

[TheNextStep]

But what has Pittsburgh won? A few years ago, the only teams in the league running the 3-4 were the Steelers and Eagles, neither of whom were winning a damned thing... and nobody else was quick to jump on that bandwagon.

New England, however, runs off 3 titles in 4 years and you see a sudden marked increase in teams running that system. There's no way in hell that everybody was copying the Ravens and I don't see how you can even argue that, considering that New England was running a 3-4 AND WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH IT back when even Baltimore was running the 4-3.

[Pat Bowlen]

Originally Posted by TheNextStep

I'm just sayin' here... but nobody copied the Ravens' 3-4 defense. Everyone copied New England's 3-4 defense... including the Ravens.

Beat me to it. The Patriots started that trend all the way.

[labronx]

Originally Posted by TheNextStep

But what has Pittsburgh won? A few years ago, the only teams in the league running the 3-4 were the Steelers and Eagles, neither of whom were winning a damned thing... and nobody else was quick to jump on that bandwagon.

New England, however, runs off 3 titles in 4 years and you see a sudden marked increase in teams running that system. There's no way in hell that everybody was copying the Ravens and I don't see how you can even argue that, considering that New England was running a 3-4 AND WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH IT back when even Baltimore was running the 4-3.

nobody is arguing anything.

I get your point about NE winning and everybody copying, however, I wouldn't go as far as saying that NE runs the 3-4 look at the superbowl and youll see that they mainly ran a 4-3.

Ask Bellicheck and he will even tell you that he doesn't run the 3-4 hes a maniac he runs all kinds of stuff.

ITs all a matter of who he is playing that week. Balt though ran a base 3-4 last year under Nolan and before the DC who went over to Cinci they ran a 3-4 back then I think the 3-4 has always been a big part of the AFC Central.

SD has been running it for years, if you really want to talk about everyone jumping on the bandwagon and all of a sudden using the 3-4 just look at your team.

The Raiders abandoned it halfway through the year, I never understood why they even tried as they never had the manpower for it.

I still dont understan why we dont employ as a bigger part of our "base" package.

[labronx]

Originally Posted by Pat Bowlen

Beat me to it. The Patriots started that trend all the way.

yawn

[SoCalBronco]

I dont think anyone will be going to the 46 as more than a small package. It has definite limits in the coverages you can run from it, its a run defense almost solely. The way people today are spreading Ds out, you cannot survive with a 46 as a base in a passing league. You will be able to predict with a high degree of certainty the coverage you will get and any time the other side knows what you are going to do, your almost always in trouble. Outside of Man-Blitz, Man-Free, Man-Free with Robber, Man with a bracket of a reciever or TE and the Three Deep Zone, there isnt alot else you can run against the pass from the 46. And Shanny knows how to carve up a 46, even a 46 with talented players. Back in 95, we tore Buddy Ryan a new one, 38-6, with good players in the front eight.

[labronx]

Originally Posted by TheNextStep

But what has Pittsburgh won? A few years ago, the only teams in the league running the 3-4 were the Steelers and Eagles, neither of whom were winning a damned thing... and nobody else was quick to jump on that bandwagon.

New England, however, runs off 3 titles in 4 years and you see a sudden marked increase in teams running that system. There's no way in hell that everybody was copying the Ravens and I don't see how you can even argue that, considering that New England was running a 3-4 AND WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS WITH IT back when even Baltimore was running the 4-3.

you are right the Eagles also ran the 3-4 and back in the days ran the 4-6. Which in my mind is variation of the 3-4.

This all brings you back to who? Buddy Ryan

[labronx]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

I dont think anyone will be going to the 46 as more than a small package. It has definite limits in the coverages you can run from it, its a run defense almost solely. The way people today are spreading Ds out, you cannot survive with a 46 as a base in a passing league. You will be able to predict with a high degree of certainty the coverage you will get and any time the other side knows what you are going to do, your almost always in trouble. Outside of Man-Blitz, Man-Free, Man-Free with Robber, Man with a bracket of a defender and the Three Deep Zone, there isnt alot else you can run against the pass from the 46. And Shanny knows how to carve up a 46, even a 46 with talented players. Back in 95, we tore Buddy Ryan a new one, 38-6, with good players in the front eight.

yep good post
the 46 is geared to be a quick massive pressure D at the point of attack it leaves your coverage team in allot of man to man or some weak zone schemes that will be destroyed by a quick, accurate passing attack like Indy's

[Clockwork Orange]

Originally Posted by labronx

yep good post
the 46 is geared to be a quick massive pressure D at the point of attack it leaves your coverage team in allot of man to man or some weak zone schemes that will be destroyed by a quick, accurate passing attack like Indy's

A team like Indy can exploit them, true, but they're the exception rather than the rule. The Ratbirds secondary features Chris McAllister, Samari Rolle & Ed Reed. If anyone can pull it off, it's them.

[yavoon]

maybe, but this trend is an appeasement of ray lewis mostly. it might work tho, ray's one big weakness now is his loss of explosive power, he still has good range and is a great tackler. so I dont think they are hugely off the mark here.

[Pat Bowlen]

Originally Posted by labronx

yawn

Either you agree or you don't. You claim to not be arguing, but you're still debating the opinion that the Patriots weren't the team that most recently ran the formation with real success. The reason that the 3-4 has been talked about and employed to the extent that is has in the past couple of seasons is directly due to New England's use of it and Bellicheck's ability to maximize its strengths.

I'm not saying that Baltimore hasn't been a trendsetter in the NFL, I'm just saying that they shouldn't get credit for the 3-4 craze that's going around, or for employing it successfully before anybody else thought to.

[DBroncos4life]

What killed the 3-4 back in the day?

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

What killed the 3-4 back in the day?

I dont know if anything killed it per se scheme wise, i would think its more that teams do not have that really powerful two gap NT that can absolutely shut things down inside, so that you can still have a great run D with only 3 guys on the line, and then have the versatility of blitzing several different combinations of backers to get the heat you need in the pass game. Those elite caliber NTs are a luxury, they come at a high premium. I think it was just that very few people had these kind of guys that perfectly fit this scheme. The 3-4 is very versatile, a very good defense. You dont know where the fourth guy is coming from, and you can shut down the passing game altogether if you want by dropping that extra guy into coverage, with a loaded three deep zone with 5 guys underneath and 3 guys deep taking away the whole shallow crossing game.

[sirhcyennek81]

3/4 was a response to the West Coast Offense, dropped lb's and dlinemen into passing zones to confuse and slow up the wco offense. offenses more prone to power running kind of "beat" the 3/4. key in today's nfl is the ability to play any defensive front at any time, 4-6, 4-4, 3-4, 4-3, ect. 2-9, whatever works.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

3/4 was a response to the West Coast Offense, dropped lb's and dlinemen into passing zones to confuse and slow up the wco offense. offenses more prone to power running kind of "beat" the 3/4. key in today's nfl is the ability to play any defensive front at any time, 4-6, 4-4, 3-4, 4-3, ect. 2-9, whatever works.

the good 3-4 defenses aren't really weak against the run. I understand the basic idea but I dont think it actually plays out as often as u think.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

What killed the 3-4 back in the day?

Boy, everyone seems to be saying something else, but I recall the 3-4 being used extensively in the late 70's early 80's. In 1981 17 of 28 franchises used the 3-4 including the Broncos during that time. I remember the West Coast offense coming in and taking things apart, and then you saw a gradual shift toward the 4-3 with a select few teams staying with it, like the Steelers. The West Coast Offense era did away with the 3-4, it didn't bring it back. 3-4 was resurrected by Bill Cower in the 90's and now its become more popular because other teams are having success at it.

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81

3/4 was a response to the West Coast Offense,

No it wasn't. The WCO wasn't widely used until the mid 80's and by then most teams were switching to 4-3 schemes.

[kappys]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Boy, everyone seems to be saying something else, but I recall the 3-4 being used extensively in the late 70's early 80's. In 1981 17 of 28 franchises used the 3-4 including the Broncos during that time. I remember the West Coast offense coming in and taking things apart, and then you saw a gradual shift toward the 4-3 with a select few teams staying with it, like the Steelers. The West Coast Offense era did away with the 3-4, it didn't bring it back. 3-4 was resurrected by Bill Cower in the 90's and now its become more popular because other teams are having success at it.

Kaylore is the only one on target here. The WCO killed the 3-4 defense because it focused too much on blitzing schemes with various LB"s, which left holes that allowed for quick slants and so forth to eat up a defense.

The 4-3 is a much more simple defense, which allowed the LB's to focus on short drops and quick routes and make tackles against those receivers and TE's who ran them. Cover 2 defenses out of a 4-3 set with both CB's and LB's playing short zones was designed to counter quick WCO routes.

As for the 46 I think it could work as a part time defense for the Ravens. The reason for that is not Ray Ray so much as it is Ed Reed. Reed has proved that if given the ability to roam the field he can come up with big play after big play. Given that Mcallister and Rolle are the CB's, they can let Reed gamble while dropping their FS deep. It is somewhat risky, but will work for them. Of course the focus will all be on Ray making some extra tackles, but the real focus of this defense will be Ed Reed IMO.

[Beantown Bronco]

Ray Lewis just moved up at least a round or two on my ff board. (we draft individual defensive players in addition to def teams)

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by labronx

"To come into camp and have my defensive coordinator tell me I'm not going to be touched, I'm like a little kid all over again.''

Is it just me, or should the self-proclaimed "best LB in the game" not be saying things like this? Booo Hooo, I'm only good when I don't get touched. What a wuss. Why doesn't he become a kicker already?

[illbroncsfn]

Originally Posted by kappys

Kaylore is the only one on target here. The WCO killed the 3-4 defense because it focused too much on blitzing schemes with various LB"s, which left holes that allowed for quick slants and so forth to eat up a defense.

The 4-3 is a much more simple defense, which allowed the LB's to focus on short drops and quick routes and make tackles against those receivers and TE's who ran them. Cover 2 defenses out of a 4-3 set with both CB's and LB's playing short zones was designed to counter quick WCO routes.

As for the 46 I think it could work as a part time defense for the Ravens. The reason for that is not Ray Ray so much as it is Ed Reed. Reed has proved that if given the ability to roam the field he can come up with big play after big play. Given that Mcallister and Rolle are the CB's, they can let Reed gamble while dropping their FS deep. It is somewhat risky, but will work for them. Of course the focus will all be on Ray making some extra tackles, but the real focus of this defense will be Ed Reed IMO.

Excellent post Kappys! I couldn't agree more that Ed Reed will be the true architect behind the Rex Ryan 46 defense. The death of the 46 defense was it's vulnerability in getting beat deep. May this fortune hold true for Baltimore

[Jason in LA]

I wouldn't say the Broncos copied the Ravens with the big DTs. Keith Trayor was a huge DT before the Ravens loaded up at that position.