Food For Thought

[Tombstone RJ]

I have a video tape of the 2003 Browns at Broncos game (which I was at, but I had a friend tape the game).

Anyhow, the announcers said that the only real good thing about the Browns coming into that game was the defense. They said the Bowns had like the third ranked defense in the league and that the Brown's offense is what really held them back.

Remember, Warren played in that game, but Brown was injured. Still, it was a very good defense.

I don't know what happened to the Browns defense in 2004, but I think its safe to say that Butch Davis had alot to do with the miserable aspect of that team.

Brown and Warren are now Broncos, along with Myers and Ekuban. I think that Myers was part of that 2003 defense too. So, the Broncos have three dlineman from that Browns defense of 2003 that was a pretty solid defense.

Food for thought.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Broncs are taking a big chance with these guys. If they play to their potential, it was a great offseason, but if they stink up the place, Broncs will have two choices in the top half of the draft next year. This offseason has been a big gamble. More make it or break it guys than I can ever remember.

[PRBronco]

Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ

I have a video tape of the 2003 Browns at Broncos game (which I was at, but I had a friend tape the game).

Anyhow, the announcers said that the only real good thing about the Browns coming into that game was the defense. They said the Bowns had like the third ranked defense in the league and that the Brown's offense is what really held them back.

Remember, Warren played in that game, but Brown was injured. Still, it was a very good defense.

I don't know what happened to the Browns defense in 2004, but I think its safe to say that Butch Davis had alot to do with the miserable aspect of that team.

Brown and Warren are now Broncos, along with Myers and Ekuban. I think that Myers was part of that 2003 defense too. So, the Broncos have three dlineman from that Browns defense of 2003 that was a pretty solid defense.

Food for thought.

What i've been saying all along in defense of our new linemen, is that the browns had absolutely no linebackers this year. The only one on their team worth his salt, andra davis, was injured all last year (when they were bad), but he played in '03 when, as you said, they were more respectable. People keep trying to say that the browns line was the reason their whole D was so bad, they seem to have forgotten about the backers and safeties.

[ozomulsion]

Originally Posted by PRBronco

What i've been saying all along in defense of our new linemen, is that the browns had absolutely no linebackers this year. The only one on their team worth his salt, andra davis, was injured all last year (when they were bad), but he played in '03 when, as you said, they were more respectable. People keep trying to say that the browns line was the reason their whole D was so bad, they seem to have forgotten about the backers and safeties.

The one thing I remember about the Browns '03 defense is that they gave up 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in 2 games. Food for thought.

[Smilin Assassin]

Originally Posted by ozomulsion

The one thing I remember about the Browns '03 defense is that they gave up 500 yards rushing to Jamal Lewis in 2 games. Food for thought.

This is true, but remember:

1)Ekuban wasn't a Brown at that time
2)Myers wasn't a Brown at that time
3)Though he WAS a Brown at that time, odds are Courtney didn't play in one game or the other (Hey, it's very likely)

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Broncs are taking a big chance with these guys. If they play to their potential, it was a great offseason, but if they stink up the place, Broncs will have two choices in the top half of the draft next year. This offseason has been a big gamble. More make it or break it guys than I can ever remember.

How are they taking a big chance? We got them for peanuts. Pryce on the field playing weakside should at least make up for losing Hayward, and with all the others plus the browncos on the front four, we will, at the very worst, be as bad as last year. Last year we were a top five Defense that was missing a pass rush. There is no "gamble" there. They either do well and we get better, or they suck and we stay the same.

[orange 4 life]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Broncs are taking a big chance with these guys. If they play to their potential, it was a great offseason, but if they stink up the place, Broncs will have two choices in the top half of the draft next year. This offseason has been a big gamble. More make it or break it guys than I can ever remember.

everyone talks about how its such a "big chance", but the fact remains that we got FOUR players for LESS money than we wouldve had to pay the overpriced hayward.
if ONE of those players plays well we're even (ahead if you consider pryce and ellis)
if TWO of those players play well we're well ahead.

seems to me the chance wouldve been keeping hayward.

jake

[Smilin Assassin]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

everyone talks about how its such a "big chance", but the fact remains that we got FOUR players for LESS money than we wouldve had to pay the overpriced hayward.
if ONE of those players plays well we're even (ahead if you consider pryce and ellis)
if TWO of those players play well we're well ahead.

seems to me the chance wouldve been keeping hayward.

jake

Couldn't agree more.

I'd understand if we went out and shelled big money for the guys we got. The 'risk' is the word I'd go with. Or even ifn we just stayed staus quo and resigned Hayward. It was obvious we weren't getting it done w/what we had.

I'm excited to see these guys in a new enviroment, some of them pretty much in a contract yr.

[SoCalBronco]

I remember one of the Gerard Warren articles where he was talking about that game. Didnt he have 2 sacks on Plummer that day?

[Mediator12]

More food for thought, the Ravens have only five starting players from their 2001 SB championship team still on the roster. Only Ray Lewis and McCallister from that lowest scoring points "D". Roster Turnover is the bane of the modern sports era. Deal with it!

Sure the moves this offseason are heavy on Risk/Reward. They lost two key YOUNG defensive starters for over 18 million in SB's this offseason. That Sucks! Denver acquired a non-fan favorite in Ian Gold who got the 8.5 million signing bonus. In his case, I think the Broncos lock him at that price for the full five years if healthy. Therefore, I see this as not so bad. I know Coyer really wanted him back. That is enough for me. Spragan was pure filler last year.

Denver brought in some Talent at DL and Coyer has survived with inadequate talent the last two years. Even if these guys suck, the Defense will still not be as bad as the Raiders or Chiefs. With Trevor and a few Bodies they will still be adequate. If they are just average, then the "D" will be a little better. It's not like they were the problem for most of last year. They Only gave up 19 pts a game. That would be ST's and Red Zone Offense. If Warren plays well and any of the other guys get good rotation reps then this "D" will be top three.

[Clockwork Orange]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

everyone talks about how its such a "big chance", but the fact remains that we got FOUR players for LESS money than we wouldve had to pay the overpriced hayward.
if ONE of those players plays well we're even (ahead if you consider pryce and ellis)
if TWO of those players play well we're well ahead.

seems to me the chance wouldve been keeping hayward.

jake

Also, the Broncos options at D-line were pretty limited as far as adding players through free agency.

Corey Simon-Franchised
John Abraham-Franchised
Darren Howard-Franchised
Shaun Rogers-Re-signed before free agency started
Shaun Ellis-Re-signed before free agency started

Honestly, where were the big guns that the Broncos could have pursued? The closest thing to big names along the D-line that changed teams through free agency were Jason Ferguson (Dallas, shares the same agent with Parcells, the man who drafted him) and Pat Williams (Minnesota, with the cap space the Vikings had available there was no way the Broncos were going to be able to outbid them for anyone they wanted to sign). Both would have cost a bundle and neither is of superstar quality, so it's not as if people here would have been doing backflips over landing either of these two.

The Broncos still have question marks along the D-line, until any of the guys they picked up actually shows something on the field, they'll remain that way. But had they sat still and done nothing to address the D-line, people here would have been even more pissed than they are now.

I'm not sold on any of these guys, but there's potential in every one of them. Warren if he stays motivated, Brown & Ekuban if they stay healthy, Myers is just a depth guy and is probably the surest thing of them all (he's not going to dominate, but he'll be a serviceable rotation guy like Fatafehi). Even if none of them pans out, all it cost was a 4th round pick and Reuben Droughns. If any of them pan out along with the return of Trevor Pryce and our D-line is looking much better than last year.

[SoCalBronco]

[QUOTE=Mediator12] Denver acquired a non-fan favorite in Ian Gold who got the 8.5 million signing bonus. In his case, I think the Broncos lock him at that price for the full five years if healthy. [QUOTE]

(groans)

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Also, the Broncos options at D-line were pretty limited as far as adding players through free agency.

Corey Simon-Franchised
John Abraham-Franchised
Darren Howard-Franchised
Shaun Rogers-Re-signed before free agency started
Shaun Ellis-Re-signed before free agency started

Honestly, where were the big guns that the Broncos could have pursued? The closest thing to big names along the D-line that changed teams through free agency were Jason Ferguson (Dallas, shares the same agent with Parcells, the man who drafted him) and Pat Williams (Minnesota, with the cap space the Vikings had available there was no way the Broncos were going to be able to outbid them for anyone they wanted to sign). Both would have cost a bundle and neither is of superstar quality, so it's not as if people here would have been doing backflips over landing either of these two.

The Broncos still have question marks along the D-line, until any of the guys they picked up actually shows something on the field, they'll remain that way. But had they sat still and done nothing to address the D-line, people here would have been even more pissed than they are now.

I'm not sold on any of these guys, but there's potential in every one of them. Warren if he stays motivated, Brown & Ekuban if they stay healthy, Myers is just a depth guy and is probably the surest thing of them all (he's not going to dominate, but he'll be a serviceable rotation guy like Fatafehi). Even if none of them pans out, all it cost was a 4th round pick and Reuben Droughns. If any of them pan out along with the return of Trevor Pryce and our D-line is looking much better than last year.

Well crap, people are starting to make sense now. What the hell has this place come to?

[TotallyScrewed]

As I recall that's what Shanny said ---Warren had an excellent game. Those images must have stuck with him.

We've had a D-line that could push the pocket. What we haven't had are players that could get off the blocks and chase down the player, QB or runningback. Those guys, Warren and Brown, have that ability when healthy/motivated. I also believe that Pryce is the kingpin of that line. It's an absolute must that he gets probowl results.

If you honestly look at the O-lines of the ACFW, they're all talented, as are their QB's and RB's and more than a few WR's. Denver will need herculean efforts.

I don't see any reason not to believe Warren will play extremely hard. One, he's not injuried. Two, he's in his final contract year. Three, he plays with a better team
(offensively and defensively).

Brown is very questionable, due only to his injuries, the nature and quantity.

Pryce is questionable, due to the nature of back injuries.

Ek and Myers are solid and I'm not worried about any "maintenance" repairs.

One player I'd like to see back is Eliss Johnson. Has anyone heard anything of him?

[Sodak]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Broncs are taking a big chance with these guys. If they play to their potential, it was a great offseason, but if they stink up the place, Broncs will have two choices in the top half of the draft next year. This offseason has been a big gamble. More make it or break it guys than I can ever remember.

It seems like any team who wants to win almost has to take a big chance signing questionable players who might have a big upside. There's no other way to gamble and win coming out with a clear advantage over other teams. In a league of real parity, I can't think of any other way to get an edge on the competition...

I just hope to hell this gamble pays off. Big time. And the Redskins continue to suck!

[eddie mac]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

I remember one of the Gerard Warren articles where he was talking about that game. Didnt he have 2 sacks on Plummer that day?

Quite right SoCal, 4 tackles and 2 sacks.

[eddie mac]

Originally Posted by Smilin Assassin

This is true, but remember:

1)Ekuban wasn't a Brown at that time
2)Myers wasn't a Brown at that time
3)Though he WAS a Brown at that time, odds are Courtney didn't play in one game or the other (Hey, it's very likely)

Brown played in the 1st game and Myers actually played in the 2nd game a 35-0 shutout loss and actually had 2 sacks.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by PRBronco

What i've been saying all along in defense of our new linemen, is that the browns had absolutely no linebackers this year. The only one on their team worth his salt, andra davis, was injured all last year (when they were bad), but he played in '03 when, as you said, they were more respectable. People keep trying to say that the browns line was the reason their whole D was so bad, they seem to have forgotten about the backers and safeties.

Watching this 2003 game on tape, its easy to see why losing Andre Davis was so huge. He is in on every tackle.

[Tombstone RJ]

Originally Posted by Smilin Assassin

This is true, but remember:

1)Ekuban wasn't a Brown at that time
2)Myers wasn't a Brown at that time
3)Though he WAS a Brown at that time, odds are Courtney didn't play in one game or the other (Hey, it's very likely)

According to the tape I'm watching, Myers was number 93 on this good defensive team of 2003.

[GoHAM]

Everytime I sit here and ponder what the future holds for the signing of all the Browncos, I wind up taking a trip down memory lane to the SuperBowl years and two names keep popping into my mind for some reason or another:
Neil Smith and Alfred Williams, if I recall properly Alfred came with a huge "risk" and underacheiver tag from a crappy team in Ohio. Neil Smith was also supposedly well over the hill and almost hitting the bottom of the other side. Yet I seem to recall Pat Bowlen saying something like "This one's for John!" Just thoughts.

By the way I am still against Rice usurping Rod's place as Jedi Master on our team!

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

How are they taking a big chance? We got them for peanuts. Pryce on the field playing weakside should at least make up for losing Hayward, and with all the others plus the browncos on the front four, we will, at the very worst, be as bad as last year. Last year we were a top five Defense that was missing a pass rush. There is no "gamble" there. They either do well and we get better, or they suck and we stay the same.

The chance the Broncs are taking does not involve the money, it is that every one of the DL on the roster is a question mark. Unless Brown, Pryce, Eukaban, Warren, etc put their injuries and attitudes behind them, the Broncs will have zero on the DL in 2006 which will mean they are probably a 6-10 team that year regardless of how well they do with the rest of the units.

[eddie mac]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

The chance the Broncs are taking does not involve the money, it is that every one of the DL on the roster is a question mark. Unless Brown, Pryce, Eukaban, Warren, etc put their injuries and attitudes behind them, the Broncs will have zero on the DL in 2006 which will mean they are probably a 6-10 team that year regardless of how well they do with the rest of the units.

We didn't have much on the D-Line last year either yet we still managed a 10-6 record which could've and should've been 13-3. Blown games against Jax, SD and Oakland.

[Breck Bronc]

Originally Posted by eddie mac

We didn't have much on the D-Line last year either yet we still managed a 10-6 record which could've and should've been 13-3. Blown games against Jax, SD and Oakland.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

We also could have lost to Tampa Bay if Droughns didn't kill the clock so effectively, Carolina if Matt Willig doesn't get called for a phantom false start and ensuing personal foul penalty on a field goal try, Miami if they weren't the second worst team in football and Plummer & Droughns kept turning the ball over, and Indianapolis if they played their starters more than one series. So yes, we could have been 13-3, but we could have been 6-10, too.

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by Breck Bronc

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

We also could have lost to Tampa Bay if Droughns didn't kill the clock so effectively, Carolina if Matt Willig doesn't get called for a phantom false start and ensuing personal foul penalty on a field goal try, Miami if they weren't the second worst team in football and Plummer & Droughns kept turning the ball over, and Indianapolis if they played their starters more than one series. So yes, we could have been 13-3, but we could have been 6-10, too.

"Gasp" Its the Anti-Jake!"