Moving up, Moving down

[Ballhawk]

Thought we could take a look at who may be a surprise pick ahead of the Broncos and what player may slide to us.

My Top "Surprise Five" to go higher than #25:

1. Charlie Frye, QB, Akron - I think he is really starting to seperate himself as the #3 QB in the draft, and we could see someone move up in front of GB to take him in the 1st round ala JP Loseman last year.

2. Luis Castillo, DT, Northwestern- workouts put him on the rise 305lbs ran a 4.79 at combine. Quick, non stop motor could play inside or out in 3-4.

3. Matt Jones, WR, Arkansas - hottest rising player in this years draft, would not surprise me to see someone draft just on potential. Most teams expect WR to take a couple years to develop anyways, at least he has no bad habits.

4. Channing Crowder, ILB, Florida - only two years of college ball may hurt his draft status. If he had waited until 2006 may have been a top 15 pick, I could see a team like Clev trading up to get him for their new 3-4.

5. Demarcus Ware, DE-OLB, Troy - Fast rising player, always get the small school "Gem" draft reach.

Top Five to Slide:

1. Thomas Davis, S-OLB, Georgia - Lack of true position for pros.

2. Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn # 3 CB slides do to CB being deepest position in draft and teams figure they can wait til 2nd round and still find talent.

3. Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma - lack of ideal size really hurts.

4. Travis Johnson, DT, Florida St.- How much has he really seperated himself from so called 2nd tier DTs.

5. Khalif Barnes, OT, Washington - Needs another years developement and most teams will look for a more polished player.

[delany]

Originally Posted by Ballhawk

Thought we could take a look at who may be a surprise pick ahead of the Broncos and what player may slide to us.

My Top "Surprise Five" to go higher than #25:

1. Charlie Frye, QB, Akron - I think he is really starting to seperate himself as the #3 QB in the draft, and we could see someone move up in front of GB to take him in the 1st round ala JP Loseman last year.

2. Luis Castillo, DT, Northwestern- workouts put him on the rise 305lbs ran a 4.79 at combine. Quick, non stop motor could play inside or out in 3-4.

3. Matt Jones, WR, Arkansas - hottest rising player in this years draft, would not surprise me to see someone draft just on potential. Most teams expect WR to take a couple years to develop anyways, at least he has no bad habits.

4. Channing Crowder, ILB, Florida - only two years of college ball may hurt his draft status. If he had waited until 2006 may have been a top 15 pick, I could see a team like Clev trading up to get him for their new 3-4.

5. Demarcus Ware, DE-OLB, Troy - Fast rising player, always get the small school "Gem" draft reach.

Top Five to Slide:

1. Thomas Davis, S-OLB, Georgia - Lack of true position for pros.

2. Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn # 3 CB slides do to CB being deepest position in draft and teams figure they can wait til 2nd round and still find talent.

3. Mark Clayton, WR, Oklahoma - lack of ideal size really hurts.

4. Travis Johnson, DT, Florida St.- How much has he really seperated himself from so called 2nd tier DTs.

5. Khalif Barnes, OT, Washington - Needs another years developement and most teams will look for a more polished player.

I would be happy if Denver took any of the 'Top 5 to Slide' at #25.

[TexanBob]

Wherever he gets drafted, I think Clayton will wind up being a better pro than Williamson and he's obviously less of a risk that Matt Jones. Personally, he's the second WR on my board, after Edwards.

I don't think Barnes will slide. LTs aren't expected to step in and dominate the first year anyway. Heck, Gallery was supposed to be a once-a-decade LT and he didn't even play LT as a rookie.

[Ballhawk]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

Wherever he gets drafted, I think Clayton will wind up being a better pro than Williamson and he's obviously less of a risk that Matt Jones. Personally, he's the second WR on my board, after Edwards.

I don't think Barnes will slide. LTs aren't expected to step in and dominate the first year anyway. Heck, Gallery was supposed to be a once-a-decade LT and he didn't even play LT as a rookie.

I think Clayton may be this years Rashaun Woods who slipped to # 31 OA last year. A WR that runs great routes but does not have the ideal triangle numbers. Woods was a little slower than teams like but had the size at 6'2" 200lbs where Clayton is just smaller than desired 5'11" 187lbs, and may get pegged as a slot WR.

I do not think this WR class is as strong as last years, but it is close at the top level. There will be an odd man out and Clayton may be the one

[wabbit]

I mean no offense to those draftniks who love Mark Clayton, but I just cannot see this kid fitting into Denver's plans

it's also interesting that a variety of sites list his height as between 5-10 to 5-11 1/2

At 5-11 1/2 he's acceptable in height. Sporting News lists him at 5-10, and if that's closer to the truth, it would be a problem no matter how great his hands, separation or ability to get open.

There are those among the Bronco scouting staff who sincerely believe that, to some degree, Plummer's int problems stem from his inability to see his receivers...compounded by the height of the O-Linemen and/or the D-linemen.

A 5-10 WR would not help this situation.

Plummer is often listed as 6-2+...even 6-3 in a program I have from a Bronco/Raider Monday Night game from two years ago

This is false. If he is 6-2, I would be surprised...more likely 6-1 1/2 or 6-1 3/4.

He can't see downfield if his passing lanes aren't open...and given the urgency of a specific situation, Plummer might throw it to a spot whether he can see the receiver or not .

His receivers MUST be 6 feet or taller.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by wabbit

I mean no offense to those draftniks who love Mark Clayton, but I just cannot see this kid fitting into Denver's plans

it's also interesting that a variety of sites list his height as between 5-10 to 5-11 1/2

At 5-11 1/2 he's acceptable in height. Sporting News lists him at 5-10, and if that's closer to the truth, it would be a problem no matter how great his hands, separation or ability to get open.

There are those among the Bronco scouting staff who sincerely believe that, to some degree, Plummer's int problems stem from his inability to see his receivers...compounded by the height of the O-Linemen and/or the D-linemen.

A 5-10 WR would not help this situation.

Plummer is often listed as 6-2+...even 6-3 in a program I have from a Bronco/Raider Monday Night game from two years ago

This is false. If he is 6-2, I would be surprised...more likely 6-1 1/2 or 6-1 3/4.

He can't see downfield if his passing lanes aren't open...and given the urgency of a specific situation, Plummer might throw it to a spot whether he can see the receiver or not .

His receivers MUST be 6 feet or taller.

I don't think thats true anymore Wabbit. With the rules set the way they are shorter WRs can be productive. Steve Smith was before the rules changed and look at Lee Evans. As long as you are strong enough to get off the line you are fine and Clayton is just that. He is one tough little guy.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by DBroncos4life

I don't think thats true anymore Wabbit. With the rules set the way they are shorter WRs can be productive. Steve Smith was before the rules changed and look at Lee Evans. As long as you are strong enough to get off the line you are fine and Clayton is just that. He is one tough little guy.

I kind of missed everything you talked about there Wabbit. Yeah I get your point. Give me Vincent Jackson anyways.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Clayton was 5'10" 193 at the combine. Broncs need someone with the strength and desire to fight with LBs for the ball and block downfield. Rod is the only one on the team that can do that and he is regretfiully getting close to the end. Clayton would be fighting with Watts for that slot receiver spot.

[Mr. Trout]

Originally Posted by Big Guy

Clayton was 5'10" 193 at the combine. Broncs need someone with the strength and desire to fight with LBs for the ball and block downfield. Rod is the only one on the team that can do that and he is regretfiully getting close to the end. Clayton would be fighting with Watts for that slot receiver spot.

Definitely agree with you. We have to get a big physical receiver to block and catch balls in traffic. I think Jackson will be the man in round 2.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Mr. Trout

Definitely agree with you. We have to get a big physical receiver to block and catch balls in traffic. I think Jackson will be the man in round 2.

ROddy White and again the guy I think Denver takes if he is there in the first Troy Williamson. Both are bigger in size and can go over the middle. Don't count out BJ Johnson though I think we robbed the rest of the NFL on that deal...and you can qoute me later on that too.

[Broncoman13]

Roddy White and Williamson are both Ash clones. Don't need em in Denver unless we plan on letting Ash get away.

Clayton plays bigger than his size, but like Wabbit said, seeing him will always be a problem. If Jake doesn't see him he won't throw the ball, if he doesn't throw the ball Clayton can't use his agressiveness to go after the pass. I like Clayton a lot and think he'll be a great pro. I think he'll be hands down better than Lee Evans was last year! Better than Steve Smith as well. I think you're talking about he next Marvin Harrison here...... but that's my personal opinion. Considering what we have here, Jones, Jackson, or Henry are the logical choices. I wouldn't complain with Jones @ 25. Though I will state that I don't care to see him on end arounds and gimmick plays. I want to see him in the redzone..... you want a "gimmick" play. Put him under center and let him run a bootleg....... screw a bunch of end around. NFL LB's and DE's are too smart and fast to run those types of plays now-a-days.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

Roddy White and Williamson are both Ash clones. Don't need em in Denver unless we plan on letting Ash get away.

Clayton plays bigger than his size, but like Wabbit said, seeing him will always be a problem. If Jake doesn't see him he won't throw the ball, if he doesn't throw the ball Clayton can't use his agressiveness to go after the pass. I like Clayton a lot and think he'll be a great pro. I think he'll be hands down better than Lee Evans was last year! Better than Steve Smith as well. I think you're talking about he next Marvin Harrison here...... but that's my personal opinion. Considering what we have here, Jones, Jackson, or Henry are the logical choices. I wouldn't complain with Jones @ 25. Though I will state that I don't care to see him on end arounds and gimmick plays. I want to see him in the redzone..... you want a "gimmick" play. Put him under center and let him run a bootleg....... screw a bunch of end around. NFL LB's and DE's are too smart and fast to run those types of plays now-a-days.

White is 6'0" to 6'1" 200 pounds. Williamson is 6'1" 200 pounds as well. Ash is 6'3" to 6'4" 200 pounds

Roddy White

Position:
WR

College:
UAB

Projected Selection:
Round2


MEASUREMENTS
HEIGHT
WEIGHT
40 TIME
6'2"
205
4.4

ATTRIBUTE SCORE
SIZE
SPEED
STRENGTH
ATHLETICISM
XFACTOR
9
9
9
9
10
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10

EXCHANGE VALUE
76.0

Pros: Is a great deep threat, has good size and speed. Is able to create separation, tough guy. Not afraid to go over the middle.
Cons: Needs to work on the little things, improving his routes and his blocking.
Draft Exchange Analysis:
UAB's top receiving threat last season and is expected to play that role again in 2004 ... already has established himself among Conference USA's top receivers ... has five career 100-yard receiving games ... has been on receiving end of 78 passes over past two seasons ... presently tied for No. 4 all-time at UAB in receptions with 92 ... his 1,660 career receiving yards are No. 3 all-time for the Blazers as are his 12 TD receptions. 2003: Led Blazers in receptions (39) and reception yardage (844) ... also paced team in TD receptions with seven ... started all 12 games for UAB ... one of Conference USA's top playmakers, White ranked No. 2 in league in yards per catch among WRs with 30 or more receptions ... recorded four games with more than 100 receiving yards ... his 95-yard touchdown catch against Cincinnati represents the second-longest catch in C-USA history ... had third-highest single-game receiving yardage with his 171 against Cincinnati ... also surpassed 100 yards in receiving in games vs. Southern Miss (111), Tulane (147) and South Florida (121) ... was named C-USA Offensive Player-of-the-Week for his performance vs. Cincinnati (4 catches, 171 yards, 2 TDs, reception of 95 yards) ... caught a career-high 10 passes in the game vs. Southern Mississippi ... recorded two touchdowns in games vs. Cincinnati and Tulane ... also registered several other long pass receptions (61 vs. Tulane, 56 vs. Cincinnati and South Florida, 54 vs. Houston and 53 vs. TCU). 2002: After seeing limited duty in 2001, White experienced a "breakout" season last fall ... started 11 of 12 contests for the Blazers ... finished the campaign as UAB's leading receiver in terms of receptions with 39 ... ranked No. 2 on the squad in receiving yards with 580 ... finished the year ranked 10th in Conference USA in receiving yards per game at 48.3 ... his 159-yard performance against East Carolina tied teammate Willie Quinnie for second-best single-game performance among C-USA receivers in 2002 ... registered 33 of his 39 receptions over the season's final eight games ...caught four passes for 94 yards and a touchdown in win over Houston ... had 80-yard performance against Southern Miss ... also had TD receptions versus Tulane and ECU. 2001: Caught 14 passes for 236 yards and two touchdowns as a true freshman ... had 10 catches for 184 yards over last three games of the season ... had three receptions for 73 yards and one touchdown against TCU ... had a 52-yard reception in that game, his longest of the season ... had a season high four catches for 75 yards against Pittsburgh ... saw action in nine games, starting three ... also used as a kick returner. HIGH SCHOOL: Attended Saint James Island High School where he was twice named all-state and twice tabbed all-Low Country ... broke school's career receiving records ... was listed among top receivers nationally by Rivals.com ... coached by Reed Charpia ... also participated in baseball and wrestling at James Island and won a pair of state titles in the latter sport. PERSONAL: Born Nov. 2, 1981 at James Island, S.C. ... son of Joenethia White ... a sociology major.


Troy Williamson*

Position:
WR

College:
South Carolina

Projected Selection:
Top20


MEASUREMENTS
HEIGHT
WEIGHT
40 TIME
6'2"
200
4.4

ATTRIBUTE SCORE
SIZE
SPEED
STRENGTH
ATHLETICISM
XFACTOR
9
9
8
8
9
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10
out of 10

EXCHANGE VALUE
92.0

Pros: Great speed, good size. Has produced, 19.4 yards per catch this season. Big play threat.
Cons: Inexperienced, hasn't played in a pass heavy offense. Needs to develop his game further.
Draft Exchange Analysis:
2004 Preseason - Gifted receiver who possess outstanding speed ... Had a strong spring practice ... Received the big play award for offense during the spring ... Listed as a starter at wide receiver heading into preseason camp ... Had one reception for 33 yards in the Spring Game.

2003 -Speedster at wide receiver who had a team-leading 31 catches for 428 yards and two touchdowns ... His 99-yard touchdown reception in the win over #15 Virginia was a thing of beauty, as he took the pass from Dondrial Pinkins on a slant pattern and outran the coverage to the end zone ... That play is the longest pass reception in Carolina history and equals the longest play from scrimmage in SEC history ... Against Georgia, he had five catches for 37 yards ... In the win over UAB, he had a pair of receptions for 34 yards ... Had three catches for 27 yards vs. Tennessee ... Played well in the win over Vanderbilt, with a team-high five receptions for 85 yards, including a long gainer of 37 yards ... Had a career-long 62-yard kickoff return at Ole Miss ... Suffered a thigh bruise early in the Ole Miss game and was forced to the sidelines ... Had four receptions for 45 yards vs. Arkansas ... Was in the starting lineup 10 of the 12 games ... Also had five rushes for 24 yards, including a long gainer of 16 yards vs. Kentucky.

2002 -Speed demon who burst upon the scene as a true freshman ... In 11 games, he finished with 17 catches for a team-leading 491 yards (28.9 average) and a team-best four touchdowns ... Started five games on the year ... Received his first collegiate start against Temple and responded with four catches for 75 yards, including a 32-yard TD reception from Corey Jenkins ... Came back the following week with four catches for 75 yards, including a 23-yard scoring strike from Dondrial Pinkins against Vanderbilt ... Had another big evening in the win over Kentucky, with three receptions for 101 yards - all in the second half ... Caught a 60-yard TD pass from Jenkins to get USC on the scoreboard first vs. LSU ... Pulled his groin the week of the Florida game and was unable to play in that contest ... Hauled in a 70-yard TD pass from Pinkins in the Clemson game, as he finished with four catches for 140 yards in that game ... Freshman All-America selection by The Sporting News and named to the SEC All-Freshman squad by the coaches and by The Sporting News ... Selected USC's Most Outstanding Freshman.

HIGH SCHOOL - Prep Star All-America ... Rated the #5 best wide receiver prospect in the Atlantic Region by Prep Star ... Rated the #16 best wide receiver prospect in the country by Tom Lemming's Football Prep Report ... Mr. Football finalist in the state of South Carolina ... SuperPrep rated him the #5 best wide receiver prospect in the nation ... Rated the #3 best prospect in the state of South Carolina by SuperPrep ... Played for back-to-back state high school state champions that rolled up 30 straight victories ... Two-time 100 and 200 meter state champion in track ... Played for Coach Al Lown at Silver Bluff High ... In Silver Bluff's 21-20 victory over Batesburg-Leesville in the State AA championship game, he ran for 189 yards and had three touchdowns ... Finished his senior year with 21 catches for 500 yards and 890 yards rushing ... Consensus all-state selection ... Class AA Player of the Year by The High School Sports Report ... Chose South Carolina over Clemson and Tennessee.

PERSONAL -Born April 30, 1983 ... His major is Hotel Restaurant & Tourism Management.

OFFENSIVE STATISTICS

Rushing G TC Yds. Avg. TD LG

2002 11 3 47 15.7 0 22

2003 12 5 24 4.8 0 16

TOTAL 23 8 71 8.9 0 22



Receiving G Rec. Yds. Avg. TD LG

2002 11 17 491 28.9 4 70

2003 12 31 428 13.8 2 99

TOTAL 23 48 919 19.1 6 99



Year KOR Yds. Avg. TD LR

2002 3 74 24.7 0 33

2003 14 268 19.1 0 62

TOTAL 17 342 20.1 0 62


Both of them are shorter and thicker then Ash.

[Ballhawk]

Originally Posted by wabbit

I mean no offense to those draftniks who love Mark Clayton, but I just cannot see this kid fitting into Denver's plans

If he is sitting there at pick #25, you can bet there will be some teams come a calling.

#24 I do not see GB taking a WR or moving down.
#23 Seattle will take the best D player available, they do not need another WR. They may move up tho with Alexander and #24 pick.

Minn, Balt, and Dallas will be the most likly to pick a WR after pick #10.

[RocBronc]

The thing that Clayton offers that no other first round WR is his return ability, which is something that we're in need of.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by Ballhawk

If he is sitting there at pick #25, you can bet there will be some teams come a calling...

And if he is, and they do...I guarantee you Denver will listen

I just don't see Clayton in Denver under any circumstances...I really don't.

Many of his receiving talents would be wasted at the slot receiver...and with his size, that seems like the only WR role he could play here.

His KR/PR possibilities are intriguing, if undeveloped.

Just don't see it

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by wabbit

And if he is, and they do...I guarantee you Denver will listen

I just don't see Clayton in Denver under any circumstances...I really don't.

Many of his receiving talents would be wasted at the slot receiver...and with his size, that seems like the only WR role he could play here.

His KR/PR possibilities are intriguing, if undeveloped.

Just don't see it

We don't need a small guy. We need a large guy so he can catch in traffic and block for the run game. Clayton has game, but he is none of these things.