An area that needs major improvement. - The Orange Mane

eddie mac · 03-22-2005, 04:06 AM

Krieger: Not exactly hawks at Dove Valley
March 22, 2005

I think I have my Broncos transactions up to date - Jason Baker out, Mark Mariscal in; Mark Mariscal out, Jason Baker in - and I have just the one question:

What, exactly, are they doing?

Ian Gold, whom they bid farewell a year ago rather than pay a big signing bonus, is their big catch, returning for a big signing bonus.

What, John Kerry is running the team now?

Gerard Warren, an interior defensive lineman jettisoned by a last-place team, the Cleveland Browns, is the other prize addition.

As far as people you've heard of, that's about it.

The checkout list is somewhat longer:

• Kenoy Kennedy, a successful Broncos draft choice who stuck around. In fact, Kennedy was chosen five picks after Gold in 2000.

This is puzzling because Mike Shanahan said lack of depth at safety was the culprit when the Colts blew out the Broncos in the playoffs at the end of the 2003 season (as opposed to when the Colts blew out the Broncos at the end of the 2004 season, when lack of depth at cornerback was the culprit).

This prompted Shanahan to sign John Lynch as a free agent, giving him three solid safeties in Lynch, Kennedy and Nick Ferguson. Now, he's back to two, which is where he was in '03 when Ferguson went down.

• Reggie Hayward, the best pass rusher on a mediocre pass-rushing team.

This is the second year in a row they've lost their best pass rusher. A year ago, it was Bert Berry. The Broncos let it be known Berry was unlikely to replicate his 111/2 sacks in Arizona, where he wouldn't have Trevor Pryce to occupy most of the blockers.

This turned out to be true. Berry had 141/2, leading the league. As this developed, Shanahan explained that he really wanted Berry back, but the front-loaded nature of Arizona's offer made that impossible. What this really means is Arizona took advantage of the Broncos' lack of salary-cap flexibility. This continues to be an issue for the Broncos as they let Hayward walk.

• Dan Neil, a fixture at guard since 1998.

Neil's gimpy left knee might justify this move, but it's not as if the Broncos knew who was going to replace him. Cooper Carlisle was out, then he was in again, sort of like Baker and Gold.

• Donnie Spragan, last season's starting strong-side linebacker.

Gold replaces Spragan as a starter, though he'll move to the weak side. This increases both the talent and the cost of the linebacking corps, already the strongest unit on the team.

• Kelly Herndon, last season's nickel back.

The Broncos proved how important a nickel back is when Lenny Walls went down and Herndon became a starting corner. Rookie Roc Alexander moved up to nickel back, where Peyton Manning toasted him in January.

So far, the balance sheet is four starters lost, two gained and that doesn't count all the backup quarterbacks the Broncos romanced and lost.

The most puzzling part remains their lack of regard for the defensive line. Most of their interest is in Browns busts, from Warren to Courtney Brown. If draft pedigree won games, the Broncos would be looking good.

General manager Ted Sundquist says the reward on Brown, the first pick in 2000, is much greater than the risk, but that's true only if Brown plays, which he seldom does. If he's hurt again, the money he collects will be like the money Daryl Gardener collected two years ago - dead weight on the salary cap.

The Broncos seem to be taking risks on blue-chip talent with baggage because they don't score well enough in the draft to develop stars the old-fashioned way.

Although Pat Bowlen told my colleague Jeff Legwold the Broncos can no longer make the sort of acquisitions they did in the early days of free agency, they're still taking big risks to do just that.

Today's model is New England, which drafts well and lets other teams overpay its departing free agents as it replaces them with younger players.

The Broncos can't do that because they don't have enough successful draft picks, especially from the later rounds. They selected 15 players in the third round and later over the last two drafts. Just one - Quentin Griffin - has made an impact so far. They took four defensive linemen in 2003 alone. None has made an impact.

Just as they take chances on free agents with baggage, they take chances on draft choices with baggage - much of it medical - in search of the home run. Their 2001 draft, in which they started with Willie Middlebrooks and Paul Toviessi, is the best - maybe worst - example.

They are operating an old plan in a new age. Their chances for substantial improvement this season now seem to rest on a great draft. If you're going to bet on this, I suggest you get the historical odds.

kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com. Dave Krieger appears on FSN Rocky Mountain's Insider Edition at 6:30 tonight.

We need to improve our drafting from the 3rd round onwards as it has been abysmal in the last few years, especially now that we've an additional 2 picks there. There's no way I want another 2003 draft where we busted out on Eason, Hunt and Mitchell although Hunt is back now, those were terrible picks and our evaluation of 2nd day talent needs to drastically improve.

watermock · 03-22-2005, 04:45 AM

Sounds like he's been reading the Mane.

clean · 03-22-2005, 04:37 PM

The article laments the Broncos inability to draft or develop players, but all of the examples that Krieger cited are players that the Broncos drafted or developed.

Dan Neil was part of 1997's three player draft that included Trevor Pryce and Cory Gilliard. Bertrand Berry and Kelly Herndon were free agents that Denver developed into the high-priced talents they are today. Donnie Spragan had not appeared in a single NFL game until he joined the Broncos. Reggie Hayward and Kenoy Kennedy were both drafted and developed by the Broncos. Bronco coaches might even have been able to do something with Gilliard if the idiot didn't hold out.

Rather than condemn, "taking risks on blue-chip talent with baggage," I would advise against taking any high-priced free agents from other teams. Perhaps the coaches don't have the ability to communicate with the prima donnas of the modern era, but do have the ability to teach hungry players that want to learn.

Draft and free agent failures have been plentiful, and we've discussed Dale Carter and Paul Toviessi to death, so I will not rehash all of the Bronco lowlights again. I think the Broncos should take their financial lumps this year and get the salary cap problems resolved. Hopefully we can discover, develop, and retain the next Rueben Droughns, Lenny Walls, Ben Hamilton, or Jeb Putzier.

http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/broncos.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...21_hawk18.html

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/135107

labronco · 03-22-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clean

The article laments the Broncos inability to draft or develop players, but all of the examples that Krieger cited are players that the Broncos drafted or developed.

Dan Neil was part of 1997's three player draft that included Trevor Pryce and Cory Gilliard. Bertrand Berry and Kelly Herndon were free agents that Denver developed into the high priced talents they are today. Donnie Spragan had not appeared in a single NFL game until he joined the Broncos. Reggie Hayward and Kenoy Kennedy were both drafted and developed by the Broncos. Bronco coaches might even have been able to do something with Gilliard if the idiot didn't hold out.

Rather than condemn, "taking risks on blue-chip talent with baggage," I would advise against taking any high priced free agents from other teams. Perhaps the coaches don't have the ability to communicate with the prima donnas of the modern era, but do have the ability to teach hungry players that want to learn.

Draft and free agent failures have been plentiful, and we've discussed Dale Carter and Paul Toviessi to death, so I will not rehash all of the Bronco lowlights again. I hope the Broncos take their lumps this year and get the salary cap problems resolved. Hopefully we can discover, develop, and retain the next Rueben Droughns, Lenny Walls, Ben Hamilton, or Jeb Putzier.

http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/broncos.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...21_hawk18.html

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/135107

now that was your greatest post ever.

Jason in LA · 03-22-2005, 04:42 PM

Another chicken little who thinks the sky is falling.

CBF1 · 03-22-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

Another chicken little who thinks the sky is falling.

Compared to another chicken little that thinks all is well in Dodge City? The sky is not falling, but things are far from being where we would all like it to be.

baja · 03-22-2005, 05:03 PM

Define falling sky.

sirhcyennek81 · 03-22-2005, 05:11 PM

Broncos made their huge move last year. Now, they fill in the holes, either with medium to low priced vets and draft high energy guys. Hayward was gone, regardless of what Denver would have offered him. I believe he was the first player to sign at the start of free agency. Neil is a warrior, but just like schlereth, injuries take a toll. Carlisle took his place, and the line had no drop off. Herndon will hurt, he is a solid cb, not the fastest guy, but is right there, workman like DB. Denver has chris young, lynch, ferguson and brandon at safety, maybe its time to see what late round talent denver has here, that did not get a chance to play. The most obvious weakness, is lack of a passrush, either from the DT position, or the DE's. Pryce coming back aids here, and i hope he does come back. You draft a Pollock, Spears, Roth or Babineux, and let the talent you have on hand mesh.

ncjmirabile · 03-22-2005, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie mac

As far as people you've heard of, that's about it.

The checkout list is somewhat longer:

• Kenoy Kennedy, a successful Broncos draft choice who stuck around. In fact, Kennedy was chosen five picks after Gold in 2000.

In the 2003 playoff game, Stokely burned Denver over the middle. Putting Lynch at FS was a mistake by the coaches. He has given up the big play a couple times this year. Ferguson was the better option at FS than Lynch or Kennedy. I am not saying Ferguson is all that because we still lack the need ball hawk at FS but Fergy is our best option at FS at this point in time.

Lynch and Kennedy are better all around safeties than Ferguson but they aren't FS they are SS. SS are meant to hit. FS are suppose to cover.

Broncoman13 · 03-22-2005, 05:59 PM

So all in favor of trading down for a couple additional 2nds

I'd gladly settle for Roth/Pollack/Tuck, Bullocks, and Henry/Jackson/Matt Jones. The 2nd round is where the talent lies in this draft. IMO you're looking at guys like Erasmus James, Dan Cody, and Shaun Cody in the first at 25..... the drop off by moving down 10-15 spots and grabbing an additional 2nd is completely nullified b/c of the talent rich pool in picks 30-100!

If we keep #25 I'm still hoping it's for Mark Clayton. We can address the Dline at 56 by drafting a Luis Castillo or Justin Tuck. Castillo is currently climbing.... Tuck's stock not moving up or down at the moment.

Before everyone comes back screaming for an OG in the first couple rounds tell me when has Denver ever drafted an OG in the first couple rounds. It's been a long long time! WR, Safety, LB, and CB are all in there.

With our 3rd round picks. Look for Colquitt if he falls. Guaranteed. I still prefer Payne from BYU but the Broncos Brass could easily decide that there is little lost if Dustin doesn't pan out being that these picks (atleast one of them) were give me's.

Also look for a mobile QB. McPherson if he falls that far which I think he will due to a poor 40 time at the combine. Yes, I know a 4.7 isn't exactly poor for a QB, but teams were putting him in the 3rd-4th round range based on the reports of him running in the 4.4 range. He is still very nimble and has a cannon for an arm. Another pick where the Broncos could sit back and say we need a back up and he's worth the risk especially considering we didn't have these picks a month ago! I doubt too many people would be disappointed with Adrian McPherson and Dustin Colquitt as our two 3rd round comp picks!

Rascal · 03-22-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja fan

Define falling sky.

rep!!

sirhcyennek81 · 03-22-2005, 06:45 PM

1. Matt Roth, DE, 6'4, 262, 4.77 40, Iowa
2. Fred Gibson, WR, 6'4 200, 4.50 40, Georgia
3a. Johnathan Babineux, DT, 6'2, 280, 4.74 40, Iowa
3b. Dustin Fox, S, 5'11, 190, 4.50 40, Ohio St

how i see denver picking the first 3 rounds

Tombstone RJ · 03-22-2005, 06:50 PM

Bowlen is still sucking Shanahan's member, so until he fires Shanny, I don't listen to anything he says about the Broncos and the product on the field...

SoCalBronco · 03-22-2005, 06:54 PM

If Pollack is not there, trade down about 7 or 8 spots or so pick up an early third or something, or a late 2nd if possible. If they really have a hard on for Ware they can get him in the very early 30s, no need to reach at 25, pick up that extra day 1 pick, that would give us 5.

Broncoman13 · 03-22-2005, 07:11 PM

A week ago I would have agreed with you SoCal..... but, I've heard in the past few hours that Ware has as many as 7 individual workouts scheduled with NFL teams. Private workouts are not so rare, but for a player to be this sought after leaves little doubt that he will be a first round selection. Especially when you consider that he is widely considered the best pass rush specialist in the draft. Add to that the fact that he ran to 40's in the 4.5 range and you can see why he'll go early. Like I said, a week ago I would have been upset with the Broncos for drafting him at 25..... today I'd be suprised if he lasted that long!

Broncoman13 · 03-22-2005, 07:18 PM

BTW, anybody pay attention to Matt Jones pro-day numbers

He's running his cone drills faster than a lot of CB's!!! I thought his weakness was supposed to be explosion?

Jones (6-6 1/8, 241) stuck with his times and vertical from the combine (he did well). He ran a 4.11 short shuttle, an 11.07 long shuttle and a 6.65 three-cone drill. He worked out at tight end as well and looked good catching the ball.

By comparison

White (6-1 3/8, 204) ran his 40s in 4.47 and 4.45. He also ran the short shuttle in 4.01 seconds, the three-cone drill in 7.19 and the long shuttle in 11.56. He had a 41-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-6 broad jump.

SoCalBronco · 03-22-2005, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

A week ago I would have agreed with you SoCal..... but, I've heard in the past few hours that Ware has as many as 7 individual workouts scheduled with NFL teams. Private workouts are not so rare, but for a player to be this sought after leaves little doubt that he will be a first round selection. Especially when you consider that he is widely considered the best pass rush specialist in the draft. Add to that the fact that he ran to 40's in the 4.5 range and you can see why he'll go early. Like I said, a week ago I would have been upset with the Broncos for drafting him at 25..... today I'd be suprised if he lasted that long!

ok i can sorta buy that. I know he is moving up but i feel pretty good that he will still be there at 25. I like the fact that he can rush the passer but he is a big liability in the run game. Teams will draw and trap to that side. I'll still be okay if he is the pick, we need pass rushers badly.

Billy Clyde Puckett · 03-22-2005, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

So all in favor of trading down for a couple additional 2nds

I'd gladly settle for Roth/Pollack/Tuck, Bullocks, and Henry/Jackson/Matt Jones. The 2nd round is where the talent lies in this draft. IMO you're looking at guys like Erasmus James, Dan Cody, and Shaun Cody in the first at 25..... the drop off by moving down 10-15 spots and grabbing an additional 2nd is completely nullified b/c of the talent rich pool in picks 30-100!

If we keep #25 I'm still hoping it's for Mark Clayton. We can address the Dline at 56 by drafting a Luis Castillo or Justin Tuck. Castillo is currently climbing.... Tuck's stock not moving up or down at the moment.

Before everyone comes back screaming for an OG in the first couple rounds tell me when has Denver ever drafted an OG in the first couple rounds. It's been a long long time! WR, Safety, LB, and CB are all in there.

With our 3rd round picks. Look for Colquitt if he falls. Guaranteed. I still prefer Payne from BYU but the Broncos Brass could easily decide that there is little lost if Dustin doesn't pan out being that these picks (atleast one of them) were give me's.

Also look for a mobile QB. McPherson if he falls that far which I think he will due to a poor 40 time at the combine. Yes, I know a 4.7 isn't exactly poor for a QB, but teams were putting him in the 3rd-4th round range based on the reports of him running in the 4.4 range. He is still very nimble and has a cannon for an arm. Another pick where the Broncos could sit back and say we need a back up and he's worth the risk especially considering we didn't have these picks a month ago! I doubt too many people would be disappointed with Adrian McPherson and Dustin Colquitt as our two 3rd round comp picks!

Scratch Tuck and Henry. Tuck can't play football and Henry is the worst cancer in the draft.

Broncoman13 · 03-23-2005, 06:49 PM

Tuck can't pay football

He has as many career sacks as Pollack and plays against an equal schedule year in and year out.

Where do you get he can't play football??

Broncoman13 · 03-23-2005, 06:52 PM

Henry you are correct about..... he can be a big time cancer. The thing is he has Randy Moss written all over him. Playmaking, Cancer, size, speed. He could be a big time distraction no doubt, but how many 6'4.5 guys do you see in the NFL that are playmakers, running in the 4.4 range

sirhcyennek81 · 03-23-2005, 06:57 PM

1. Matt Roth, DE, 6'4, 262, 4.77 40, Iowa
2. Fred Gibson, WR, 6'4 200, 4.50 40, Georgia
3a. Johnathan Babineux, DT, 6'2, 280, 4.74 40, Iowa
3b. Dustin Fox, S, 5'11, 190, 4.50 40, Ohio St

if this happens, i will faint. last 3 years i have been right on at least 2 of shanahan's selections. i was just wrong about the round.

SoCalBronco · 03-23-2005, 07:06 PM

1. David Pollack, DE Georgia
2. Mike Patterson, DT USC
3a. Wesley Britt, OT Alabama
3b. Claude Terrell, OG New Mexico

Billy Clyde Puckett · 03-23-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

Tuck can't pay football

He has as many career sacks as Pollack and plays against an equal schedule year in and year out.

Where do you get he can't play football??

Take a look at game films. He ducked blocks from D. Cobb a 185 running back from Michigan State, he stood around with his hands on his hips as the Michigan RB ran in the other direction and Kyle Orton, who is not known for his elusivemness sidestepped him on almost every pass rush. Bust with a capital B. If not for the speed he would be a second day pick.

Arkie · 03-24-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

BTW, anybody pay attention to Matt Jones pro-day numbers

He's running his cone drills faster than a lot of CB's!!! I thought his weakness was supposed to be explosion?

Jones (6-6 1/8, 241) stuck with his times and vertical from the combine (he did well). He ran a 4.11 short shuttle, an 11.07 long shuttle and a 6.65 three-cone drill. He worked out at tight end as well and looked good catching the ball.

By comparison

White (6-1 3/8, 204) ran his 40s in 4.47 and 4.45. He also ran the short shuttle in 4.01 seconds, the three-cone drill in 7.19 and the long shuttle in 11.56. He had a 41-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-6 broad jump.

Yes, that surprised me. He also had good times in the 10 and 20 and the combine. He had no problems working out as a receiver on pro day. He's excellent at getting off the line.

Traveler · 03-24-2005, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

Before everyone comes back screaming for an OG in the first couple rounds tell me when has Denver ever drafted an OG in the first couple rounds. It's been a long long time!

That's the concern I have with the FO. Why not draft more OLmen in the early rounds? Wouldn't be nice if they would finally draft a guard or tackle with 1st or 2nd talent (Foster notwithstanding)? I've said before... can't make chicken salad from chicken-**** no matter how hard you try.

How I long for the days of Zimmerman, Jones, Stinky, Habib, Swayne, etc...

03-22-2005, 04:06 AM	#1
eddie mac Ireland's No1 Bronco Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: IRELAND Posts: 15,572 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rod Smith	An area that needs major improvement. Krieger: Not exactly hawks at Dove Valley March 22, 2005 I think I have my Broncos transactions up to date - Jason Baker out, Mark Mariscal in; Mark Mariscal out, Jason Baker in - and I have just the one question: What, exactly, are they doing? Ian Gold, whom they bid farewell a year ago rather than pay a big signing bonus, is their big catch, returning for a big signing bonus. What, John Kerry is running the team now? Gerard Warren, an interior defensive lineman jettisoned by a last-place team, the Cleveland Browns, is the other prize addition. As far as people you've heard of, that's about it. The checkout list is somewhat longer: • Kenoy Kennedy, a successful Broncos draft choice who stuck around. In fact, Kennedy was chosen five picks after Gold in 2000. This is puzzling because Mike Shanahan said lack of depth at safety was the culprit when the Colts blew out the Broncos in the playoffs at the end of the 2003 season (as opposed to when the Colts blew out the Broncos at the end of the 2004 season, when lack of depth at cornerback was the culprit). This prompted Shanahan to sign John Lynch as a free agent, giving him three solid safeties in Lynch, Kennedy and Nick Ferguson. Now, he's back to two, which is where he was in '03 when Ferguson went down. • Reggie Hayward, the best pass rusher on a mediocre pass-rushing team. This is the second year in a row they've lost their best pass rusher. A year ago, it was Bert Berry. The Broncos let it be known Berry was unlikely to replicate his 111/2 sacks in Arizona, where he wouldn't have Trevor Pryce to occupy most of the blockers. This turned out to be true. Berry had 141/2, leading the league. As this developed, Shanahan explained that he really wanted Berry back, but the front-loaded nature of Arizona's offer made that impossible. What this really means is Arizona took advantage of the Broncos' lack of salary-cap flexibility. This continues to be an issue for the Broncos as they let Hayward walk. • Dan Neil, a fixture at guard since 1998. Neil's gimpy left knee might justify this move, but it's not as if the Broncos knew who was going to replace him. Cooper Carlisle was out, then he was in again, sort of like Baker and Gold. • Donnie Spragan, last season's starting strong-side linebacker. Gold replaces Spragan as a starter, though he'll move to the weak side. This increases both the talent and the cost of the linebacking corps, already the strongest unit on the team. • Kelly Herndon, last season's nickel back. The Broncos proved how important a nickel back is when Lenny Walls went down and Herndon became a starting corner. Rookie Roc Alexander moved up to nickel back, where Peyton Manning toasted him in January. So far, the balance sheet is four starters lost, two gained and that doesn't count all the backup quarterbacks the Broncos romanced and lost. The most puzzling part remains their lack of regard for the defensive line. Most of their interest is in Browns busts, from Warren to Courtney Brown. If draft pedigree won games, the Broncos would be looking good. General manager Ted Sundquist says the reward on Brown, the first pick in 2000, is much greater than the risk, but that's true only if Brown plays, which he seldom does. If he's hurt again, the money he collects will be like the money Daryl Gardener collected two years ago - dead weight on the salary cap. The Broncos seem to be taking risks on blue-chip talent with baggage because they don't score well enough in the draft to develop stars the old-fashioned way. Although Pat Bowlen told my colleague Jeff Legwold the Broncos can no longer make the sort of acquisitions they did in the early days of free agency, they're still taking big risks to do just that. Today's model is New England, which drafts well and lets other teams overpay its departing free agents as it replaces them with younger players. The Broncos can't do that because they don't have enough successful draft picks, especially from the later rounds. They selected 15 players in the third round and later over the last two drafts. Just one - Quentin Griffin - has made an impact so far. They took four defensive linemen in 2003 alone. None has made an impact. Just as they take chances on free agents with baggage, they take chances on draft choices with baggage - much of it medical - in search of the home run. Their 2001 draft, in which they started with Willie Middlebrooks and Paul Toviessi, is the best - maybe worst - example. They are operating an old plan in a new age. Their chances for substantial improvement this season now seem to rest on a great draft. If you're going to bet on this, I suggest you get the historical odds. kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com. Dave Krieger appears on FSN Rocky Mountain's Insider Edition at 6:30 tonight. We need to improve our drafting from the 3rd round onwards as it has been abysmal in the last few years, especially now that we've an additional 2 picks there. There's no way I want another 2003 draft where we busted out on Eason, Hunt and Mitchell although Hunt is back now, those were terrible picks and our evaluation of 2nd day talent needs to drastically improve.

03-22-2005, 04:37 PM	#3
clean Dazed And Frantic Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 820	The article laments the Broncos inability to draft or develop players, but all of the examples that Krieger cited are players that the Broncos drafted or developed. Dan Neil was part of 1997's three player draft that included Trevor Pryce and Cory Gilliard. Bertrand Berry and Kelly Herndon were free agents that Denver developed into the high-priced talents they are today. Donnie Spragan had not appeared in a single NFL game until he joined the Broncos. Reggie Hayward and Kenoy Kennedy were both drafted and developed by the Broncos. Bronco coaches might even have been able to do something with Gilliard if the idiot didn't hold out. Rather than condemn, "taking risks on blue-chip talent with baggage," I would advise against taking any high-priced free agents from other teams. Perhaps the coaches don't have the ability to communicate with the prima donnas of the modern era, but do have the ability to teach hungry players that want to learn. Draft and free agent failures have been plentiful, and we've discussed Dale Carter and Paul Toviessi to death, so I will not rehash all of the Bronco lowlights again. I think the Broncos should take their financial lumps this year and get the salary cap problems resolved. Hopefully we can discover, develop, and retain the next Rueben Droughns, Lenny Walls, Ben Hamilton, or Jeb Putzier. http://www.drafthistory.com/teams/broncos.html http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...21_hawk18.html http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/135107 Last edited by clean; 03-22-2005 at 05:14 PM..

03-22-2005, 06:54 PM	#14
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,303 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	If Pollack is not there, trade down about 7 or 8 spots or so pick up an early third or something, or a late 2nd if possible. If they really have a hard on for Ware they can get him in the very early 30s, no need to reach at 25, pick up that extra day 1 pick, that would give us 5. __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

03-23-2005, 07:06 PM	#22
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,303 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	1. David Pollack, DE Georgia 2. Mike Patterson, DT USC 3a. Wesley Britt, OT Alabama 3b. Claude Terrell, OG New Mexico __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

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03-22-2005, 04:45 AM	#2
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	Sounds like he's been reading the Mane.

03-22-2005, 04:42 PM	#5
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	Another chicken little who thinks the sky is falling.

03-22-2005, 05:03 PM	#7
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,900 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Define falling sky.

03-22-2005, 05:11 PM	#8
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,674 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	Broncos made their huge move last year. Now, they fill in the holes, either with medium to low priced vets and draft high energy guys. Hayward was gone, regardless of what Denver would have offered him. I believe he was the first player to sign at the start of free agency. Neil is a warrior, but just like schlereth, injuries take a toll. Carlisle took his place, and the line had no drop off. Herndon will hurt, he is a solid cb, not the fastest guy, but is right there, workman like DB. Denver has chris young, lynch, ferguson and brandon at safety, maybe its time to see what late round talent denver has here, that did not get a chance to play. The most obvious weakness, is lack of a passrush, either from the DT position, or the DE's. Pryce coming back aids here, and i hope he does come back. You draft a Pollock, Spears, Roth or Babineux, and let the talent you have on hand mesh.

03-22-2005, 05:59 PM	#10
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	So all in favor of trading down for a couple additional 2nds I'd gladly settle for Roth/Pollack/Tuck, Bullocks, and Henry/Jackson/Matt Jones. The 2nd round is where the talent lies in this draft. IMO you're looking at guys like Erasmus James, Dan Cody, and Shaun Cody in the first at 25..... the drop off by moving down 10-15 spots and grabbing an additional 2nd is completely nullified b/c of the talent rich pool in picks 30-100! If we keep #25 I'm still hoping it's for Mark Clayton. We can address the Dline at 56 by drafting a Luis Castillo or Justin Tuck. Castillo is currently climbing.... Tuck's stock not moving up or down at the moment. Before everyone comes back screaming for an OG in the first couple rounds tell me when has Denver ever drafted an OG in the first couple rounds. It's been a long long time! WR, Safety, LB, and CB are all in there. With our 3rd round picks. Look for Colquitt if he falls. Guaranteed. I still prefer Payne from BYU but the Broncos Brass could easily decide that there is little lost if Dustin doesn't pan out being that these picks (atleast one of them) were give me's. Also look for a mobile QB. McPherson if he falls that far which I think he will due to a poor 40 time at the combine. Yes, I know a 4.7 isn't exactly poor for a QB, but teams were putting him in the 3rd-4th round range based on the reports of him running in the 4.4 range. He is still very nimble and has a cannon for an arm. Another pick where the Broncos could sit back and say we need a back up and he's worth the risk especially considering we didn't have these picks a month ago! I doubt too many people would be disappointed with Adrian McPherson and Dustin Colquitt as our two 3rd round comp picks!

03-22-2005, 06:45 PM	#12
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,674 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	1. Matt Roth, DE, 6'4, 262, 4.77 40, Iowa 2. Fred Gibson, WR, 6'4 200, 4.50 40, Georgia 3a. Johnathan Babineux, DT, 6'2, 280, 4.74 40, Iowa 3b. Dustin Fox, S, 5'11, 190, 4.50 40, Ohio St how i see denver picking the first 3 rounds

03-22-2005, 06:50 PM	#13
Tombstone RJ Ring of Famer Old School Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the Tetons! Posts: 19,286 Adopt-a-Bronco: WorrellWilliams	Bowlen is still sucking Shanahan's member, so until he fires Shanny, I don't listen to anything he says about the Broncos and the product on the field...

03-22-2005, 07:11 PM	#15
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	A week ago I would have agreed with you SoCal..... but, I've heard in the past few hours that Ware has as many as 7 individual workouts scheduled with NFL teams. Private workouts are not so rare, but for a player to be this sought after leaves little doubt that he will be a first round selection. Especially when you consider that he is widely considered the best pass rush specialist in the draft. Add to that the fact that he ran to 40's in the 4.5 range and you can see why he'll go early. Like I said, a week ago I would have been upset with the Broncos for drafting him at 25..... today I'd be suprised if he lasted that long!

03-22-2005, 07:18 PM	#16
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	BTW, anybody pay attention to Matt Jones pro-day numbers He's running his cone drills faster than a lot of CB's!!! I thought his weakness was supposed to be explosion? Jones (6-6 1/8, 241) stuck with his times and vertical from the combine (he did well). He ran a 4.11 short shuttle, an 11.07 long shuttle and a 6.65 three-cone drill. He worked out at tight end as well and looked good catching the ball. By comparison White (6-1 3/8, 204) ran his 40s in 4.47 and 4.45. He also ran the short shuttle in 4.01 seconds, the three-cone drill in 7.19 and the long shuttle in 11.56. He had a 41-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-6 broad jump.

03-23-2005, 06:49 PM	#19
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	Tuck can't pay football He has as many career sacks as Pollack and plays against an equal schedule year in and year out. Where do you get he can't play football??

03-23-2005, 06:52 PM	#20
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,961 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	Henry you are correct about..... he can be a big time cancer. The thing is he has Randy Moss written all over him. Playmaking, Cancer, size, speed. He could be a big time distraction no doubt, but how many 6'4.5 guys do you see in the NFL that are playmakers, running in the 4.4 range

03-23-2005, 06:57 PM	#21
sirhcyennek81 Yes...swooping is bad... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Florence, Colorado Posts: 20,674 Adopt-a-Bronco: All of them.	1. Matt Roth, DE, 6'4, 262, 4.77 40, Iowa 2. Fred Gibson, WR, 6'4 200, 4.50 40, Georgia 3a. Johnathan Babineux, DT, 6'2, 280, 4.74 40, Iowa 3b. Dustin Fox, S, 5'11, 190, 4.50 40, Ohio St if this happens, i will faint. last 3 years i have been right on at least 2 of shanahan's selections. i was just wrong about the round.