I dont know if we are in offseason mode or not ...

[Spider]

So feel free to move this , but I think this willl spark an interesting debate
........................
While Montana argues over bison

Friday, January 28, 2005


hunt, Wyo quietly conducts its own

By MARK HENCKE
Billings Gazette

While Montana simmers, stews and boils over at every mention of a bison hunt, Wyoming has cooked up what supporters describe as an effective, well-run and quiet bison hunt.

There are no protesters. There is good hunter response. It is fair chase. And when the National Elk Refuge and Grand Teton National Park conclude an environmental review, the hunt may be even bigger in the years to come.

While bison hunting remains a huge controversy in Montana, Wyoming has managed to harvest 47 bison in 2004, 42 in 2003, and a total of 180 bison since 2000.

"One of the things that helped us is when we came out initially and when the (National Elk) refuge was doing the assessment of the bison herd at Jackson, we went to great lengths to involve the local conservation groups and local communities," said Mark Gocke, regional information and education specialist for the Wyoming Game and Fish Department in Jackson.

"We all sat around the table and talked about the issues. Everybody agreed that hunting was a necessary tool to control the population and protect the habitat we have. We needed a manageable number of bison," he said.

"Only one group opposed -- the Fund for Animals -- and they're opposed to all hunting," Gocke said.

That process began in 1985. The first public bison hunt took place in 1989 with 12 harvested. Since then, there have been some bumps in the road.

In 1990, a group called Legal Action for Animals sued over compliance with the National Environmental Policy Act because the hunt was being conducted on federal land. The Jackson bison hunt was shut down because of the complaint.

In 1994, a management plan was developed for bison leaving Yellowstone National Park and wintering on the North Fork of the Shoshone, west of Cody. It allowed for 15 bull bison to winter there and no cows, due to brucellosis concerns.

In this small wintering population, 12 bull bison were harvested in the winter of 1995-96 and 14 bulls, one cow and one calf were taken in 1996-97 when the 15-bull management goal was exceeded.

After legal hoops were negotiated at Jackson, the hunt there resumed in 1999 on private land, state land and Bridger-Teton National Forest land.

That's where things still sit today, with an environmental impact statement still in the works after five years of work on it by the National Elk Refuge and Grand Teton National Park.

How it works

Craig Sax, a Game and Fish warden at Cody, said Wyoming's approach to a hunt is clear and simple.

"This is a bison reduction program, a bison management program, where you set population objectives and try to harvest the excess," Sax said. "We need the essential management tools of bison reduction where necessary."

The wintering ground on the North Fork of the Shoshone typically attracts few bison, except during really tough winters. It's during those years, when more bison come out of Yellowstone, that hunters who apply for permits are notified and hunts are held.

At Jackson, the bison hunt has been an every-year affair since 1998.

At first, hunters were divided into five time periods. They would attend one of five classroom orientation sessions.

"We talked about a lot of things -- shot placement, boundaries of the hunt, safety, ethics -- and did shooting proficiency tests to make sure hunters came with sighted-in rifles," Gocke said. "It was a pretty labor-intensive hunt.

"But we've been moving toward a more normal big game hunt like the rest of the big game species in Wyoming," he said.

Regulations call for a Sept. 1-Nov. 30 season. All the classroom orientation materials are sent to hunters. Hunters can come when they want. Last fall, there were 25 bull tags and 50 cow/calf tags. Hunters who were successful in the drawings were notified by mail that they were eligible to buy tags.

Bull bison tend to go to the areas where the hunt is held. Cows and calves are more likely to stay in the lowlands on the National Elk Refuge. As a result, hunter success on bulls last fall was 100 percent. Only 32 percent of the cow/calf hunters filled their tags.

According to Sax, the resident application fee (to get on the bison priority list) costs $9, and if you are drawn to participate, the license is $331. The nonresident application fee is $17, and if you are drawn to participate, it's a $2,101 license.

Fair chase

One of the big misconceptions about the bison hunt is that it's not a fair chase hunt, Gocke said.

"These are not dumb animals," he said. "We're not even hunting them very hard. Yes, as these animals are hunted, they are definitely wary and wily. It's just like any big game species. Sometimes you have an easy hunt. But we have cases where you're peeking over a ridge 250 yards away, and they're already off and running from you.

"It's not like you're driving through Yellowstone National Park and are having these animals right next to your car," Gocke said. "It's a fair chase hunt, and these are wild bison."

Gocke said that the bison herd at Jackson is still far from its management goals. The population objective is 400 animals. Currently, the herd is at 800-plus.

"What's limiting us now is how many bison are going to be potentially available on our hunting area and how many hunters can be put in the field without conflict," he said. "The number of bison we're taking now is not curbing the growth of the population."

That could change if Grand Teton National Park and the National Elk Refuge complete their environmental study and the hunting area can be expanded.

In the meantime, the hunts go on.

"We haven't had any disputes in the field," Gocke said. "We haven't had big protests. In a way, we're staying under the radar. But it's also because we went to great lengths before the hunts, and people recognized that hunting was needed to control the population and protect the habitat."

[Atlas]

All the rich Californians have moved to Montana that's why there is such a debate. I lived in S.D. and they hunt(harvest) Buffalo there. It's the same thing as a cow what's the big deal? Buffalo is kind of stringy but tastes good and is more lean than cow.

[RaiderH8r]

Save the Buffalo, shoot the Californians

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by Atlas

All the rich Californians have moved to Montana that's why there is such a debate. I lived in S.D. and the hunt Buffalo there. It's the same thing as a cow what's the big deal? Buffalo is kind of stringy but tastes good and is more lean than cow.

back when this hunt first started when I was in high school and still in MT

we had idiots...and I stress IDIOTS....from the east coast calling everyone who hunted a killer and that they wanted to keep a bison in the back of their yard rather than us crazy Montanans killing them.

Californiaians are the reason I'll never be able to afford to live in MT like I want to

[Arkie]

They need to expand the hunting areas and seasons if they are having trouble curbing the bison population growth.

[Jason in LA]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

Save the Buffalo, shoot the Californians

How about shooting all the people that move here.

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

"This is a bison reduction program, a bison management program, where you set population objectives and try to harvest the excess," Sax said. "We need the essential management tools of bison reduction where necessary."

."

Reduction programs are an essential part of wildlife management. I don't know all the details in Montana but I can tell you that the Elk #'s in Colorado are booming. If it wasn't for the hunters in conjunction with the Colorado Division of Wildlife there would be alot of Elk suffering from disease or starving not to mention certain areas of the habit take a beating that are essential to other animals.

The people that are protesting any type of Bison hunt in Montana should be protesting "Poachers" not hunters. Any hunter is operating under the rules of their DOW and in effect is helping the Bison. It's the Poachers that kill illegally that are the real problem.

[missingnumber7]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

Save the Buffalo, shoot the Californians

I grew up in Bozeman in the 80's and now to go back its yuppy california.

[Hotrod]

Kill them all ! No not really but Im all for hunting anything and everything. I live for hunting. Its not just a sport but a way of life for me and my family. I laugh at the anti hunting idiots and would love to send them a video tape every year when the deer and elk around here start dying a slow painful death in my back yard due to winter starvation. Not to mention all the ones that get whacked on the highways. Hunting is good for the animals IMO. Now if I can just get the wife to let me hang my new trophy from this year in the living room.

[RaiderH8r]

Multiple use land management is not a term most city folks are familiar with.

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

How about shooting all the people that move here.

You folks in California seem to be doing a fine job of shooting each other. I'm just saying Montana should sponsor a Californian hunt to keep their numbers manageable as well.

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

Multiple use land management is not a term most city folks are familiar with.

yeah if it's not

double-foam, double-whipped, extra-cinamon, extra vanilla, no whip, no yadd yadda freakin' yadda coffee

those yahoos from CA don't know what you are talking about.

[Hotrod]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

Save the Buffalo, shoot the Californians

now there is an idea

[Taco John]

Not until the Monday after the big one....


Moving to off topics...

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

yeah if it's not

double-foam, double-whipped, extra-cinamon, extra vanilla, no whip, no yadd yadda freakin' yadda coffee

those yahoos from CA don't know what you are talking about.

While the soccer moms drive their SUVs with the Earth First bumper sticker. I hate a River Runs Through It. Damn Calis really flocked after that piece of **** hit the market. Meanwhile another lumber mill announced closure today in MT. Can't fart in the wind without 3 months of hearings, 5 Environmental Impact Statements, an application for gas passage filed through BLM, and a random rectal checks to monitor methane levels.

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Not until the Monday after the big one....


Moving to off topics...

Season's over man. Who cares about the stupor bowl? Pats win, I shoot myself. Eagles win, I shoot Philly fans. Either way I'm a stain on somebody's wall.

[baja]

I have an idea. I'm gonna talk to Mac Donald's to see if I can start a Cow Shoot. After all Mac Donald's pays someone to kill each and every one of the millions of cows it grinds up every year so why not charge a fee for the "joy" of blowing out the brains of your next Big Mac. It could be offered as stress reduction therapy to America's angry men. Hell we could start in grammar school. I can see it now, "Kill your cow become a man only $743.85 plus you get 100 free Big Macs with "I killed this " branded on the patty.

Even Payton could get in on the act. "Shoot that cow, shoot that cow"

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by baja fan

I have an idea. I'm gonna talk to Mac Donald's to see if I can start a Cow Shoot. After all Mac Donald's pays someone to kill each and every one of the millions of cows it grinds up every year so why not charge a fee for the "joy" of blowing out the brains of your next Big Mac. It could be offered as stress reduction therapy to America's angry men. Hell we could start in grammar school. I can see it now, "Kill your cow become a man only $743.85 plus you get 100 free Big Macs with "I killed this " branded on the patty.

Even Payton could get in on the act. "Shoot that cow, shoot that cow"

I don't know what kind of McDonalds they have in Mexico, but here in America, damnit, we have Nutria, not cow in our Big Macs

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by baja fan

I have an idea. I'm gonna talk to Mac Donald's to see if I can start a Cow Shoot. After all Mac Donald's pays someone to kill each and every one of the millions of cows it grinds up every year so why not charge a fee for the "joy" of blowing out the brains of your next Big Mac. It could be offered as stress reduction therapy to America's angry men. Hell we could start in grammar school. I can see it now, "Kill your cow become a man only $743.85 plus you get 100 free Big Macs with "I killed this " branded on the patty.

Even Payton could get in on the act. "Shoot that cow, shoot that cow"

It's comin' right for us!

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

I don't know what kind of McDonalds they have in Mexico, but here in America, damnit, we have Nutria, not cow in our Big Macs

MMMM, nutria alllghhh

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

MMMM, nutria alllghhh

fry me up some ma

[bendog]

controversey in Miss is about "baiting" deer with corn. Problem is that introducing corn into their foodsupply "f's" with natural reproduction and elimination of the "lesser' males, and makes the entire herd more suseptible to disease.

But the problem is that the herd got so small from underregulation, and when the inbred deliverace yahoos down here got around to game management they had deer the size of large dogs, and they were so few that people had to hunt them with packs of dogs, which to me seems rather inhumane ... not to mention I don't want a pack of dogs running around when I'm bicycling, which happened to me twice. I finally gave up riding up around Oxford when I had to carry pepper spray and a revolver. Additionally, it seemed that if you owned some land, and a pack of dogs came along in pursuit of a deer, you had to leave them alone, even if they killed your dog. For some reason the law frowned upon shooting the pack of dogs that was trespassing on your land. I never followed that logic, except they seemed to favor the hunt.

So, now they have too many deer. And the hunters are dwindling. And the hunters left don't want to hike through the woods trying to stalk deer. They want to sit in deer stands with little pee containers, and eat and drink.

Plus, I heard from a hunter that the last deer sausage he had processed came out to 20bucks a pound by the time he factored in his costs of the license, gear, and processing.

[Meck77]

We hunters aren't a bunch of blood thirsty savages. Well except for maybe my friend Bob. This was his first year Elk hunting with us and he got a little excited while we were posing with the back strap of an Elk.

Hmm...Maybe Motana could use this pic on their billboards at the borders of the state to keep the Californians out.

It could say something like "Welcome to Montana where we eat Raw Animals"

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by bendog

controversey in Miss is about "baiting" deer with corn. Problem is that introducing corn into their foodsupply "f's" with natural reproduction and elimination of the "lesser' males, and makes the entire herd more suseptible to disease.

But the problem is that the herd got so small from underregulation, and when the inbred deliverace yahoos down here got around to game management they had deer the size of large dogs, and they were so few that people had to hunt them with packs of dogs, which to me seems rather inhumane ... not to mention I don't want a pack of dogs running around when I'm bicycling, which happened to me twice. I finally gave up riding up around Oxford when I had to carry pepper spray and a revolver.

So, now they have too many deer. And the hunters are dwindling. And the hunters left don't want to hike through the woods trying to stalk deer. They want to sit in deer stands with little pee containers, and eat and drink.

Plus, I heard from a hunter that the last deer sausage he had processed came out to 20bucks a pound by the time he factored in his costs of the license, gear, and processing.

there isn't even a comparison to "hunting" down here in the south compared to the North

freakin' deer stands should be outlawed...these rednecks would die if they really had to hunt like I did in Montana, by hiking and tracking the deer/elk/antelope

[Meck77]

Originally Posted by bendog

they had deer the size of large dogs,.

I just recently saw some pics of some deer that my friend harvested in Florida. You aren't kidding they were the size of dogs! I couldn't believe it. I never even knew deer could be that small. Hunting for deer out in Colorado is definetly not easy with the terrain of a 12,000 foot mountain in your way but when you finally get one it can be huge.