The Jake's not to blame thread...

[Arkie]

...there needs to be a backup plan in case those issues aren't fixed. He can't throw 20 picks, and he has to complete better than 58% of his passes. He was that type of player in '03, and wasn't in '04.

As long as the backup plan excludes Jeff Garcia and Drew Bledsoe. They weren't that type of player in either year.

[labronx]

I love this Thread

[labronx]

can we crack the 60 page barrier by the end of today?

[Crushaholic]

Originally Posted by labronx

can we crack the 60 page barrier by the end of today?

I thought we've seen the last of this thread, but I was wrong.

[Arkie]

This thread is the 2nd biggest in General Discussion sorted by replies. It's almost 1000 replies ahead of 3rd place! Will it catch up to the Neck Pony Nation thread?

Neck Pony Nation!!! - 2,158 replies
The Jake's not to blame thread... - 1,380 replies

[Jason in LA]

Originally Posted by Bosko

As long as the backup plan excludes Jeff Garcia and Drew Bledsoe. They weren't that type of player in either year.

Bledsoe wouldn't be an answer at all because he's a pocket passer. Garcia would work in the system. He's a mobile QB. If he would come cheap and except a backup role I'd be all for that. But chances are he'll be looking to be the starter somewhere. He'll go somewhere that he can step right in and be the starter.

[RhymesayersDU]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

i think youre a hell of a cool guy, so dont take this wrong, but THIS is the problem with our fans anymore.

this statement is about as good as an example as ive ever seen.

youve "been off the bandwagon for a couple weeks now?"

how exactly does that work?

we havent even played in the last "couple weeks."

the problem anymore is that fans (and especially bronco fans) are just WAY too fickle.
on the bandwagon, off the bandwagon.
get ON the bandwagon, and STAY on the bandwagon.

when a player completely falls apart, i can see someone calling for a replacement.
when a player plays virtually identical from one year to the next, i see no reason for all this.

the fact of the matter is that two years ago most everyone here had plummer avatars (POSITIVE ones!), excused ANY mistake he made (like after cinci in '03. THAT was a game he played TERRIBLY in!!), complimented everything he did well, and that extended to the media too.
EVERYONE kissed this guys ass and hailed him as the next great denver qb.
after '03, most everyone still felt that way.

now, only a year later, most in the media and fans alike have come full circle.
this is the SAME qb everyone was so thrilled about before he played a down (NO ONE cared about what he did in arizona then. only NOW does that come up.)
this is the SAME qb that played in '03.
NOTHING has changed, except that he broke some records and had too many tipped balls that ended up in a defenders hands.
NOTHING has changed.

the ONLY thing different is the perception of some fans and media.

to me, thats hypocrisy at BEST, and flat out IDIOCY at worst.

jake

First off Jake, I really like you and respect the hell out of you, so nothing personal here.

Anyways, I was a big Plummer guy, and to be honest I still am. However, with that said, I can't honestly say that we should just forget our QB position and consider it fine. IF SOMEBODY IS AVAILABLE, then at this point I am all for bringing them in. I capitilized that first part to stress the importance of it. If nobody is available, I'm fine with Jake leading this team.

Believe me when I say I am in his corner, I'm rooting for him to be the best. I wrote this in a rep I gave you, and I'll say it again. Nothing would make me happier than discussing Plummer as an MVP candidate because he's having a killer season next year. He's a great guy, and I'm rooting for him.

However, in a review of the season (that's how I got off his bandwagon in the last few weeks) he's made some dumb mistakes. It got to the point that I was cringing every time in the playoffs he threw the ball, because I was expecting them to be intercepted.

Some of the throws he makes are just dumb. I'm not talking about throws that go off receiver's hands, or ones where our OLine can't block and the DLine bats them... I give Jake a pass for those without question. But he throws into coverage way too often, and that is my problem. That infamous fade pass against San Diego, I still have freakin' nightmares about that.

I'm real torn. Part of me wants a 3rd season of auditioning, and part of me wants us to find a new QB if we can find one via trade or FA or draft. We still had chances to win pretty much every game we were in minus Atlanta, Cincy, and Indy, so it's not all on Jake by any means... But, well, I just don't know anymore.

With that said, if I had to choose get a premier DE/DT or get a new QB, I go with the DE/DT every single day of the week. I think we're OK at the QB spot, but I wouldn't say we can just forget about it.

[Jason in LA]

I'd also love to talk about Plummer for MVP. I hope that happens. I hope he leads the Broncos to a Super Bowl victory. I hope he plays well in at least 13 games next year. But, if that doesn't happen, I hope there is a backup plan. The Broncos can have both plans in the works at the same time. Keep working on Plummer, but at the same time work on somebody else if Plummer fails.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Well, that's always been the theory.

It was proven wrong this year. The new theory, per Shanahan, is if Shanahan limits Plummers decision-making, it will cut down on his interceptions. It's sad when Plummer throws a completely boneheaded interception in San Diego, Shanahan blames himself for allowing Jake the option to do so.

But maybe Shanahan is right. Maybe if he tightens that leash back up, Jake will be able to handle this offense.

How was it proven wrong this year? In '03 he had an All-Pro TE and All-Pro RB and threw 7 picks. If you can't see the correlation between the drop in efficiency and losing two players of that caliber and replacing them with Jeb Putzier and Reuben Drougns, then there is no help for you. The theory proved itself in '03. When substational weapons were substracted, the results weren't quite as efficient. This why I think it'd be wise to invest in a weapon or two for Jake, specifically a possession reciever, something that I think he really missed last year. Sharpe was a short-yardage and third-down safety valve last year, and I think he really missed having that this season. As far as RB goes, I'm very optimistic that Tatum can be that legitimate go-to-guy. The biggest thing, though, is to improve the defense and special teams.

[Jason in LA]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

How was it proven wrong this year? In '03 he had an All-Pro TE and All-Pro RB and threw 7 picks. If you can't see the correlation between the drop in efficiency and losing two players of that caliber and replacing them with Jeb Putzier and Reuben Drougns, then there is no help for you. The theory proved itself in '03. When substational weapons were substracted, the results weren't quite as efficient. This why I think it'd be wise to invest in a weapon or two for Jake, specifically a possession reciever, something that I think he really missed last year. Sharpe was a short-yardage and third-down safety valve last year, and I think he really missed having that this season. As far as RB goes, I'm very optimistic that Tatum can be that legitimate go-to-guy. The biggest thing, though, is to improve the defense and special teams.

My answer to this is the same as my post on the last page, #1359. It's too long to re-post.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

yeah thats what it is taco.

whatever you say dude.

keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night, or whatever riles up the board.

Dude, I'm not trying to rile up the board... This board is full of a lot of individuals who, like yourself, make up their own minds. We have some of the strongest personalities on the internet here, and one thing is for certain is that very few of them take their cues from me.

The fact is, Jake *didn't* play the same as he did in '03. He played significantly worse. His quarterback rating from November to December show marked regression. His interception number showed marked regression. The fact that he tied Elway's record is fantastic, but face it... the new rules did that for everybody. Manning would have never broken Marino's "untouchable" TD record without it.

We need to start looking toward the future. Jake has three years here, and it's done. That's IF he can make all three years. If he goes out and stinks it up next year like he did this year, he won't even last the season without getting booed off the field. Hell, if he goes out in game one and stinks it up, he's going to have the stadium on his back... Those people aren't taking their cues from me either.

I get your stance on Jake. I've been there before. Defending a guy against seemably all logic. But it's my opinion that you think Jake is something that he's not... And that's a guy who can carry us through the playoffs. There's no evidence that he can. Just faith. It's cool that you have faith in him. I'm sorry, but I don't. I hate to say it, because I'd love to believe in the guy. But when the chips were down this year, so was Jake.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

pathetic.

what shanny DID in '03, was have a better offense around him, and better luck with the tipped balls.

sharpe or putz?
mccaffrey (had he stayed this year) or watts?
portis or (insert '04 runner here)?

i thought so.

shanny didnt DO anything different in '03, and neither did plummer.
how you guys can blind yourself to anything but one stat is mind boggling and sad.

You're wrong. In '03, Shanahan limited Jake's options. He was instructed to read fewer routes, and throw the ball away or run if there was nothing there. This year, Shanahan opened things up for Jake, and he was given more autonomy. That autonomy is being taken away again. Shanahan said it himself... He needs to limit Jake's decision-making on the field.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

How was it proven wrong this year? In '03 he had an All-Pro TE and All-Pro RB and threw 7 picks. If you can't see the correlation between the drop in efficiency and losing two players of that caliber and replacing them with Jeb Putzier and Reuben Drougns, then there is no help for you. The theory proved itself in '03. When substational weapons were substracted, the results weren't quite as efficient. This why I think it'd be wise to invest in a weapon or two for Jake, specifically a possession reciever, something that I think he really missed last year. Sharpe was a short-yardage and third-down safety valve last year, and I think he really missed having that this season. As far as RB goes, I'm very optimistic that Tatum can be that legitimate go-to-guy. The biggest thing, though, is to improve the defense and special teams.

Great. Explain to me then how with Putz and Droughns, Jake went from an almost 120 QB rating in November, to an apporximate 60 point drop off in December... The answer sure has nothing to do with Clinton Portis or Shannon Sharpe.

[Taco John]

Well that question killed the conversation. I'm guessing that I'm just not looking deep enough...

[orange 4 life]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Well that question killed the conversation. I'm guessing that I'm just not looking deep enough...

oh give me a break.
that question was answered like 25 pages ago.
maybe you need to "look deep enough" into the thread to find the answer.

[baja]

Can we hit 60 before free agency opens

[2KBack]

Was there anything about jake that was left undiscussed? I don't see how that would be possible.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by orange 4 life

oh give me a break.
that question was answered like 25 pages ago.
maybe you need to "look deep enough" into the thread to find the answer.

I didn't think so. I thought it was artfully dodged.

I still don't know how you drop 60 points in quarterback rating and have it be everybody elses fault except the guy who is being rated.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by football idiot

I still want a list from TEEJ on WHO! the competition is supposed to be.

Boy, that list has opened up considerably in the last week.

Jeff Garcia is currently at the top of my list of who we should bring in as a back-up plan.

[Taco John]

This is what you said about 25 pages ago, none of which is true:

i dont give a flying *****k what his qb rating is when i can SEE that the guy doesnt care about the pressure and has the ability to elevate and lead.

The guy melted under the pressure, and didn't demonstrate even once the ability to elevate and lead during the clutch stretch of the season. In the division title game, he utterly crumpled. Throughout December, he was one of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the game. I don't know what you are SEEing, but I saw a guy who was struggling with the very basic things, including the bread and butter of our offense, the short passing game.


Can he pick up the pieces? Maybe. Hopefully, he recognizes that there *are* pieces that need to be picked up.

[orange 4 life]

Originally Posted by Taco John

This is what you said about 25 pages ago, none of which is true:




The guy melted under the pressure, and didn't demonstrate even once the ability to elevate and lead during the clutch stretch of the season. In the division title game, he utterly crumpled. Throughout December, he was one of the absolute worst quarterbacks in the game. I don't know what you are SEEing, but I saw a guy who was struggling with the very basic things, including the bread and butter of our offense, the short passing game.


Can he pick up the pieces? Maybe. Hopefully, he recognizes that there *are* pieces that need to be picked up.

thats weak as hell taco.

i said ALOT more than that. in fact, i went into quite a bit of detail, but leave it to you to pick and choose what to quote, just like you pick and choose what to see about plummer.
he's shown REPEATEDLY an ability to lead in the clutch, yet you wont see it.
its hopeless my friend.

[Odysseus]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

Was there anything about jake that was left undiscussed? I don't see how that would be possible.

Is he ever going to create his own cereal? We have a plenty of Jake flakes right here.

[2KBack]

Originally Posted by quiettiger

Is he ever going to create his own cereal? We have a plenty of Jake flakes right here.

That cereal would taste fantastic at first, but get real soggy, real fast.

[RhymesayersDU]

Originally Posted by 2KBack

That cereal would taste fantastic at first, but get real soggy, real fast.

We already have those, they're called Flutie Flakes.

[KillerBronco#76]

I think the only way to end this argument is for next season to start... We can talk all we want about how good or bad we THINK he is. We pretty much know he's our starter for next year and i actualy beleive plummer can take us somewhere. Why do we want to get rid of a quarterback thats gotten us to the playoffs both years he's been here. I dont even blame jake for the san diego fade route because i like his want to win he saw somthing and took it and lets face it he put us in a position to win that game. I think next year we can capitalize on the chances he lets us get. Mabey that means giving him less freedome (he may not make the best decisions) but he can play. Why not support a quarterback thats gotten us to the playoffs and will probley get us their again next year.