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View Poll Results: Choke Job?
Big Time! 36 41.86%
Yes. 22 25.58%
No. 23 26.74%
Greatest Season Ever! All Hail Peyton Manning! 5 5.81%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-16-2005, 07:35 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
dude, the colts wide receivers were covered. Edgerrin James got stuffed his fair share. the new england defense forced turnovers WHEN IT WAS OUT OF THE QBS HANDS. i guess wide receivers wouldn't have dropped perfect passes if elway had thrown them, he's so special. ig uess they wouldn't have fumbled becuase elway would have "led" them to not fumble. i guess elway would have scrambled and found a way to throw it to COVERED receivers. you guys really hate manning and are obviously elway homers, if elway was going to "carry his team" to wins when the rest of his offense was outplayed why didn't he win all the time? why did he lose 3 super bowls before a team was built around him? why did he lose his share of afc playoff games to teams MUCH WORSE than the current new england team? no qb playing today would have been able to make up for the rest of the matchups out there.
Judging by his performance yesterday, I'm not sure one can definitively say Michael Vick would not have made up for the other matchups... his mobility adds another dimension to the offense.

Oh and btw, if memory serves me correctly, Elway's Broncos won more AFC playoff games than they lost.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:37 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by -Slap-
Not even showing up when you already have a reputation for getting whipped by a particuler team is indeed choking.

The very worst kind of choking.......
yeah, except that would be the COLTS choking, not peyton alone. keep stretching and changing up your "argument" (if you can even call "HAHA PEYTON CHOKED " an argument) so it suits your anti manning agenda.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:41 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
Judging by his performance yesterday, I'm not sure one can definitively say Michael Vick would not have made up for the other matchups... his mobility adds another dimension to the offense.

Oh and btw, if memory serves me correctly, Elway's Broncos won more AFC playoff games than they lost.
over the past two years it looks like the colts have won 3 and lost 2? how does that make any difference? and as for vick, he was playing the SAINT LOUIS RAMS. you're comparing the freaking rams at home to the new england patriots playing lights out after a bye at foxboro in the snow. yeah vick would have destroyed them. cough. you people will grasp at any ridiculous thing to make manning look bad. do those broncos losses hurt THAT much? jeez. your team doesn't match up well against peyton and the colts offense, move on, it's no big deal.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:47 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by CornStore
over the past two years it looks like the colts have won 3 and lost 2? how does that make any difference? and as for vick, he was playing the SAINT LOUIS RAMS. you're comparing the freaking rams at home to the new england patriots playing lights out after a bye at foxboro in the snow. yeah vick would have destroyed them. cough. you people will grasp at any ridiculous thing to make manning look bad. do those broncos losses hurt THAT much? jeez. your team doesn't match up well against peyton and the colts offense, move on, it's no big deal.

Talk about stretching. the Pats secondary has been slaughtered with injuries to even the point of having a receiver performing db duties. face it Cornhole, your posterboy didnt get it done and did nothing to try and substain any drives. hell, the Colts receivers dropped SOME passes but not all of them. the Colts defense held up their end so what is left? the Colts average 40 points a game. and how bout the first game this year at Foxboro? 24 points scored by Manning and company against all the defensive starters. do yourself a favor and stay off the crack, its eating your brain.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:47 PM   #105
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He didn't choke, he and the rest of the Colts just aren't on the same level as the Pats. They got beat down by a much better team in every respect of the game, simple as that. You can't choke when you weren't likely to win from the start.

Times like this makes me happy to have the Pats. Being a New Englander I'll always be a fan of them, and Bellicheck is what a football coach should be.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:58 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by CornStore
over the past two years it looks like the colts have won 3 and lost 2? how does that make any difference? and as for vick, he was playing the SAINT LOUIS RAMS. you're comparing the freaking rams at home to the new england patriots playing lights out after a bye at foxboro in the snow. yeah vick would have destroyed them. cough. you people will grasp at any ridiculous thing to make manning look bad. do those broncos losses hurt THAT much? jeez. your team doesn't match up well against peyton and the colts offense, move on, it's no big deal.
I don't need to "grasp at anything to make manning look bad". He did a damn good job of that himself today.

As for Vick, he played the opponent on his schedule. And I notice you didn't address the speculation that his mobility might have added another dimension to the offense.

Oh... and a quick check of records at profootballreference.com shows that the Elway years featured 17 AFC playoff games... 5 of them losses; 12 wins.
http://www.profootballreference.com/teams/denindex.htm
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:59 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Anubis_Zyklon
Talk about stretching. the Pats secondary has been slaughtered with injuries to even the point of having a receiver performing db duties. face it Cornhole, your posterboy didnt get it done and did nothing to try and substain any drives. hell, the Colts receivers dropped SOME passes but not all of them. the Colts defense held up their end so what is left? the Colts average 40 points a game. and how bout the first game this year at Foxboro? 24 points scored by Manning and company against all the defensive starters. do yourself a favor and stay off the crack, its eating your brain.
they dropped 5 passes. that's enough to kill 5 drives. manning was infact moving them down the field several times despite that. yes, they scored 24, and that was because THE REST OF THE OFFENSE played better. manning's play wasn't significantly worse from that game, the pats played much better and the receivers played much worse.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:01 PM   #108
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Oh... and a quick check of records at profootballreference.com shows that the Elway years featured 17 AFC playoff games... 5 of them losses; 12 wins.

Ouch Cornhole, i think you need to go change your shorts as you just got OWNED!.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:02 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
I don't need to "grasp at anything to make manning look bad". He did a damn good job of that himself today.

As for Vick, he played the opponent on his schedule. And I notice you didn't address the speculation that his mobility might have added another dimension to the offense.

Oh... and a quick check of records at profootballreference.com shows that the Elway years featured 17 AFC playoff games... 5 of them losses; 12 wins.
http://www.profootballreference.com/teams/denindex.htm
i didn't address it because you were attempting to make an unfair comparison. vick adds another dimension, sure, but he's also a much much worse passer and playcaller. compare peerless price's numbers to stokley's numbers and you'll see that the pats would have an easier time stopping vick than they did manning.

the colts looked bad, but no one except diehard manning haters like you are pinning it all on manning and calling it a choke job. so yes, you are grasping.

and again you bring up playoffs win/loss like it matters. jeez, i was talking about elway playing against the NEW ENGLAND TEAM in this ONE GAME. not how great they've been over their careers or what their win/loss is in the playoffs. i'm sure those 5 losses were all to teams much worse than these patriots, while they seem to be the only team capable of stopping peyton consistently.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:03 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Anubis_Zyklon
Ouch Cornhole, i think you need to go change your shorts as you just got OWNED!.
what a surprise. one manning hater/homer congratulating another because their faulty argument can't stand on its own.

congrats, have a cookie. maybe if you say i got owned a few more times it'll make it true.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:03 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
Not even showing up when you already have a reputation for getting whipped by a particular team is indeed choking.

The very worst kind of choking.......
Still dont see how a team that was not favored to win is considered choking when they did in fact lose.

Pinning a 17 point loss on 1 guy is even more puzzling.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:04 PM   #112
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above it should read .. "those 5 losses weren't all to teams much better than the pats"

it's possible he lost to some really good team, but i'm sure some of the losses were to worse teams.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:05 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek
He didn't choke, he and the rest of the Colts just aren't on the same level as the Pats. They got beat down by a much better team in every respect of the game, simple as that. You can't choke when you weren't likely to win from the start.

Times like this makes me happy to have the Pats. Being a New Englander I'll always be a fan of them, and Bellicheck is what a football coach should be.
ding! ding! ding!
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:10 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by CornStore
what a surprise. one manning hater/homer congratulating another because their faulty argument can't stand on its own.

congrats, have a cookie. maybe if you say i got owned a few more times it'll make it true.

Nothing you have said backs up any of your statements. 5 dropped passes is hardly a game killer. why doesnt Manning make some plays on his own? where is the killer instinct we always here about Manning? Meanwhile, i backed up all my posts with facts including a injured riddled defense that Manning could not take advantage of after scoring 24 the previous time in Foxboro. then, to top it all off you try and compare the ability that Elway had to what Manning has. there is no Comparison cause Elway was ten times the Qb that Manning is and his records and Career has shown that. furthermore, how bout Manning's whining from last year? it got him what he wanted, there was no blatant holding on the Pats Dbacks this year.

Just suck it up Cornhole, your arguement is weak and full of holes that you cannot back up with any solid facts. this wasnt like the game was out of reach since the get go, it was only 6-3 up until 3 minutes left of the 3rd. Manning had multiple opportunities to get something done and yet failed.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:14 PM   #115
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5 dropped passes is hardly a game killer? ROFL omfg. i guess the seahawks should have won the super bowl then! my god man. how many times did the colts receivers drop balls against the broncos? 5 is HUGE FOR ANY TEAM, MUCH MORESO FOR THE COLTS LEVEL OF SKILL AND STYLE OF OFFENSE.

why doesn't manning make some plays on his own? what did you expect him to do? rush for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns? he's a passer.

you didn't back up anything. the COLTS as a TEAM put up 24 previously. that game was played under different circumstances -- no snow, not after a bye week for belicheck without one for the colts. did it occur to you that belicheck could have disguised some of his defensive schemes that game so he could use them in the playoffs? did it occur to you that the colts would have put up points today as well if the REST OF THE OFFENSE had played up to par? oh, no, you want to blame it all on manning,a nd you post "facts" that fail to illustrate anything.

"elway was ten times the qb manning is" -- well i guess this must be true too, you said so! after all, look at all the seasons elway threw for 50 touchdown passes. it wasn't like PLUMMER passed his stats or anything.

the colts offense as a whole failed, and until you can point out how exactly manning failed to perform or made crucial mistakes, your posts in this thread will continue to be jokes.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:17 PM   #116
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"5 dropped passes and 2 fumbles is hardly a game killer" "peyton should have overcome those mistakes and rushed for 700 yards to win" "he didn't, what a CHOKER, elway would have done that!"

hilarious stuff, keep it coming!
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:22 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
5 dropped passes is hardly a game killer? ROFL omfg. i guess the seahawks should have won the super bowl then! my god man. how many times did the colts receivers drop balls against the broncos? 5 is HUGE FOR ANY TEAM, MUCH MORESO FOR THE COLTS LEVEL OF SKILL AND STYLE OF OFFENSE.

why doesn't manning make some plays on his own? what did you expect him to do? rush for 300 yards and 4 touchdowns? he's a passer.

you didn't back up anything. the COLTS as a TEAM put up 24 previously. that game was played under different circumstances -- no snow, not after a bye week for belicheck without one for the colts. did it occur to you that belicheck could have disguised some of his defensive schemes that game so he could use them in the playoffs? did it occur to you that the colts would have put up points today as well if the REST OF THE OFFENSE had played up to par? oh, no, you want to blame it all on manning,a nd you post "facts" that fail to illustrate anything.

"elway was ten times the qb manning is" -- well i guess this must be true too, you said so! after all, look at all the seasons elway threw for 50 touchdown passes. it wasn't like PLUMMER passed his stats or anything.

the colts offense as a whole failed, and until you can point out how exactly manning failed to perform or made crucial mistakes, your posts in this thread will continue to be jokes.

To add to this, the absolute dumbest thing was for Dungy to abandon the run. Once they got down 6-0, they completely went to the passing game, which played big time into the Pats hands.

As good as the Pats are on D, you can't play a 1 dimensional offense. They recognized the Colts gameplan to pass heavy so they played that way and the Colts just couldnt be effective without the running game.

A lot of blame to be going around in Indy, can't say one man choked the game away.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:28 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
i didn't address it because you were attempting to make an unfair comparison. vick adds another dimension, sure, but he's also a much much worse passer and playcaller. compare Peerless Price's numbers to stokley's numbers and you'll see that the pats would have an easier time stopping vick than they did manning.
The Pats might have an easier time stopping Vick than Manning... and they might not. The fact is that the Pats have Manning's number.

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the colts looked bad, but no one except diehard manning haters like you are pinning it all on manning and calling it a choke job. so yes, you are grasping.
Please show me where I pinned the whole loss on Manning. He certainly wasn't a difference-maker today, however... and I sincerely doubt any football fan would describe today's effort as "an MVP performance". In that context, yes, I think he choked.

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and again you bring up playoffs win/loss like it matters. jeez, i was talking about elway playing against the NEW ENGLAND TEAM in this ONE GAME. not how great they've been over their careers or what their win/loss is in the playoffs. i'm sure those 5 losses were all to teams much worse than these patriots, while they seem to be the only team capable of stopping peyton consistently.
I brought up AFC playoff games because your post suggested that Elway's Broncos had trouble winning those specific games... and the stats prove your claim to be inaccurate. ("why did he lose his share of afc playoff games to teams MUCH WORSE than the current new england team?") Btw, one of those teams he lost an afc playoff game to was the '91 Buffalo Bills. Are they MUCH WORSE than the current Pats?
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:30 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by CornStore
"5 dropped passes and 2 fumbles is hardly a game killer" "peyton should have overcome those mistakes and rushed for 700 yards to win" "he didn't, what a CHOKER, elway would have done that!"

hilarious stuff, keep it coming!

You've obviously never saw Elway play. He's fought through dropped passes, a couple of turnovers and still managed to win the game. you even said it yourself earlier Cornhole, Peyton was down 21 to the bucs and came back and won against a very good Bucs defense. So where was the Magic today?
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:32 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
The Pats might have an easier time stopping Vick than Manning... and they might not. The fact is that the Pats have Manning's number.



Please show me where I pinned the whole loss on Manning. He certainly wasn't a difference-maker today, however... and I sincerely doubt any football fan would describe today's effort as "an MVP performance". In that context, yes, I think he choked.



I brought up AFC playoff games because your post suggested that Elway's Broncos had trouble winning those specific games... and the stats prove your claim to be inaccurate. ("why did he lose his share of afc playoff games to teams MUCH WORSE than the current new england team?") Btw, one of those teams he lost an afc playoff game to was the '91 Buffalo Bills. Are they MUCH WORSE than the current Pats?
about the 91 bills thing, no they aren't worse, but i revised my statement realizing i misstated what i meant. the point is he lost to *some* teams that definitely were worse than the pats. in either case that's NOT THE POINT. the point is that if you put elway on an offense where the rest of the offense gets so badly outplayed and makes so many critical mistakes, he's not going to be able to look good no matter how talented or good he may be. this is why football is a team sport. i never suggested anything about elway having trouble in afc playoff games. i've gone out of my way to point out that i'm only talking about sticking elway into the context of ONE GAME, TODAYS GAME. he may be jesus playing quarterback but if his receivers are coughing the ball up he's not going to do anything.

and as far as your manning comments, i guess you're changing the definition of "choking" and backpedaling now. i mean you can say context this and context that, but you damn well know what "choking" meant in the context of this thread, and that was "the loss was manning's fault, he messed up, he can't get it done in the big games blah blah blah".
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:35 PM   #121
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You've obviously never saw Elway play. He's fought through dropped passes, a couple of turnovers and still managed to win the game. you even said it yourself earlier Cornhole, Peyton was down 21 to the bucs and came back and won against a very good Bucs defense. So where was the Magic today?
the difference between the bucs game and this game is taht his receivers were open in the bucs game. the bucs defense messed up at the end and allowed him to make the plays to come back. the new england defense DID NOT MESS UP at all, and infact did quite the opposite making plays left and right all the way through. i don't care how many times elway "fought through turnovers" and came back on soem random team. there was no way he was doing it to the NE defense today with the rest of the colts offense. you act as if NE didn't cover well the rest of the game. not only did they get 5 drops and 2 fumbles, but the rest of the game they were applying pressure and getting great coverage as well.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:36 PM   #122
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and on the vick thing. the pats are fast and above all else, disciplined on defense. they would stop vick just fine, especially in foxboro in the snow after a bye week.
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:38 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
I don't need to "grasp at anything to make manning look bad". He did a damn good job of that himself today.

As for Vick, he played the opponent on his schedule. And I notice you didn't address the speculation that his mobility might have added another dimension to the offense.

Oh... and a quick check of records at profootballreference.com shows that the Elway years featured 17 AFC playoff games... 5 of them losses; 12 wins.
http://www.profootballreference.com/teams/denindex.htm
Meanwhile Peyton is three up and five down in playoff games. All he has to do is win his next nine playoff matchups to equal the great John Elway's record.

rofl
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:40 PM   #124
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Particularly impressive that all of Peyton's playoff wins have come at dome, er, home and two of them came against the sixth seed.

rofl
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Old 01-16-2005, 08:41 PM   #125
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My bad, he did win a game at Arrowhead, didn't he?

Well, that's something.

rofl
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