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View Poll Results: Choke Job?
Big Time! 36 41.86%
Yes. 22 25.58%
No. 23 26.74%
Greatest Season Ever! All Hail Peyton Manning! 5 5.81%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-16-2005, 06:07 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
elway was ringless until the end. was he overrated that entire time? teams win championships, not single players, and evaluating a qb on being ringless when overall he's done far more to help the team potentially reach a super bowl than detract from it is just self serving bitterness, in my opinion. the media certainly does its fair share of ballwashing about new england and how great Tom Brady is despite the fact that a lot of his wins has been him being bailed out by his team and not vice versa. they certainly ballwashed elway a lot back in the day too. the media is silly, doesn't detract from the players they choose to kiss up to.
While you might be right about the "team" thing, you can still target Manning for tanking his team's cap room with that huge contract he signed. Compare that to Brady who restrcutured his to keep good talent on all three teams and you can see why some are better players than others.

Manning had some crap plays this time, too. Many of his passes were off and he threw off his back foot on some occations. He did have quite a few passes right on target that were dropped, though. They just couldn't handle the physicality of New England AND the weather.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:09 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
this is homerism end of story. sorry but it really is. did you watch the game today? no one was doing anything to that defense, and those 1000 yd receivers would have fumbled if elway was throwing to them as well.
Opinions vary... what you see as "homerism" is simply calling it like I saw it from my perspective. If I happen to have orange-n-blue shades on, that's perfectly OK.

Yes, I saw the game. And I thought the Pats defense did a good job against Peyton's offense. Elway's offense would have been a "horse of a different color" however... he would have brought different things to the table than Peyton due to differing QB styles.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:10 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
0-6 against Tom Brady.

1-7 against Bill Belichick.

0-7 in Foxboro.
You jsut stated why it isn't a choke job. Colts can't beat the Patriots, plain and simple. Had it beenr eversed, say Manning is 7-1 against Belichick and 6-0 against Brady, then yes, he choked big time, but Patriots are the Colts' kryptonite out there.

Also, Colts were not favored to win this game, hence Patriots being the #2 seed and Colts a 3 seed. Patriots did what they were supposed to do, and thats win the game.

Losing to a better team with a better seed at their stadium isn't a choke job.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:10 PM   #79
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The thing that got me was the defeated, hangdog look Payton had, even before the game was out of reach. I just never had the feeling that he was going to rise up and find a way to overcome the obstacles and win. Normally I believe he can and will win, but the body language just wasn't there today, and I can't help but believe that his teammates fed off his sorry, self-pitying ass. The D did their job.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:11 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenFan38
You jsut stated why it isn't a choke job. Colts can't beat the Patriots, plain and simple. Had it beenr eversed, say Manning is 7-1 against Belichick and 6-0 against Brady, then yes, he choked big time, but Patriots are the Colts' kryptonite out there.

Also, Colts were not favored to win this game, hence Patriots being the #2 seed and Colts a 3 seed. Patriots did what they were supposed to do, and thats win the game.

Losing to a better team with a better seed at their stadium isn't a choke job.
HOMER.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:12 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
this is homerism end of story. sorry but it really is. did you watch the game today? no one was doing anything to that defense, and those 1000 yd receivers would have fumbled if elway was throwing to them as well.

Why wouldn't Elway have been able to win today? It's not like the Pats put up 40 points on the board. The Pats were sitting on 13 points after 3 1/2 quarters. Are you saying that the Pats D is so great that Elway couldn't have produced more than 13 points, with three 1000 yard WR and a 1500 yard RB, through the first 3 1/2 quarters? That's a complete joke. The Pats had a good rush, but it wasn't that damn good. Elway had a way of making plays even behind a bad O line. The Colts have a good O line. Elway would have been able to make plays today.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis_Zyklon
HOMER.
As I'm sure everyone hating Manning has nothing to do with their deciding vote.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:18 PM   #83
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Elway might have played like crap during quarters one through three but during crunch time he would come through. Each and every player on the Broncos sideline knew that he would.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:19 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenFan38
As I'm sure everyone hating Manning has nothing to do with their deciding vote.

Oh, im sure there is a few who hate him but im also sure there is some objective voters.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:24 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by WaffleBoy
What? Manning is not a big game qb. Elway could scramble and his arm could have taken advantage of a bunch of 4th string corners.

And don't bring up supporting casts, because his supporting cast would have been much better just for the simple fact of free agency.

The Boy Wonder
I did not read every message in this thread. Difference between last week and this week. Manning got pressure this week. Look how pressure on the QB can make a defensive backfield look better. Situation Broncos - get pressure on the quarterback.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:25 PM   #86
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Did Manning choke? Not really. The Colts defense got exposed for what it is...average. Just as Denver was exposed last weekend. Certain teams seem to have each other number. And see how pressure can disrupt Manning?

As we used to beat NE all those years with Bledsoe, the Pats seem to have the Colts number. Think it was stated in numerous threads this week, defense wins championships. Until the Colts upgrade that side of the ball, they'll continually get exposed during the playoffs.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:27 PM   #87
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One play that shows Mannings inability to make plays was in the redzone at the end of the first half. They must have been on the five yard line or so. Manning drops back. Can't find anybody. The pass rush is coming. Now it's time for him to make a play. He steps up. He had a lane that he could have run through. He looked like he was thinking about it, but then he probably remembered that he's the slowest guy on the field. So he tries to throw the ball into the endzone, and it's damn near picked off.

If Elway had been in that situation, there's no telling what he would have done. Maybe he steps up and runs. He could have dipped his shoulder and tried to run over who even was in the way (he did that a number of times). Maybe he rolls out and runs, or finds somebody that changes their pattern. Maybe he steps up impales the ball in his WR's chest (Mark Jackson said the TD he caught to end "The Drive", the ball stuck to him, he didn't really catch it). What ever Elway would have done, it would have looked a lot better than what Manning did, and it would have had a great chance of ending up as a TD.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:31 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papi728
Did Manning choke? Not really. The Colts defense got exposed for what it is...average. Just as Denver was exposed last weekend. Certain teams seem to have each other number. And see how pressure can disrupt Manning?

As we used to beat NE all those years with Bledsoe, the Pats seem to have the Colts number. Think it was stated in numerous threads this week, defense wins championships. Until the Colts upgrade that side of the ball, they'll continually get exposed during the playoffs.
I wouldn't say the Colts D was exposed. I'd say they played much better than expected. They go in there and hold the Pats to 6 points at the half, and 13 at the end of 3 quarters. But their O failed them. Left them on the field all game long. If the Colts O would have shown up their D would have held the Pats in check the entire game.
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:33 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmoot
I did not read every message in this thread. Difference between last week and this week. Manning got pressure this week. Look how pressure on the QB can make a defensive backfield look better. Situation Broncos - get pressure on the quarterback.
Defensive pressure was no doubt a factor... but I think so was the venue. I'd fully expect Peyton and the Colts to have performed at a much higher level in their own element... in a dome, on astroturf and with the friendly home crowd... than they did on the road, on grass, in a snowstorm, in an inhospitable stadium.

The outcome of today's game might have been different had the Colts won enough games to have homefield advantage.

Or Belichick's ownership might have still remained just as valid...
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Old 01-16-2005, 06:39 PM   #90
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:10 PM   #91
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Seeing him lose today was a beautiful thing......I love seeing him hang his head.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:21 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Jason in LA
Why wouldn't Elway have been able to win today? It's not like the Pats put up 40 points on the board. The Pats were sitting on 13 points after 3 1/2 quarters. Are you saying that the Pats D is so great that Elway couldn't have produced more than 13 points, with three 1000 yard WR and a 1500 yard RB, through the first 3 1/2 quarters? That's a complete joke. The Pats had a good rush, but it wasn't that damn good. Elway had a way of making plays even behind a bad O line. The Colts have a good O line. Elway would have been able to make plays today.
dude, the colts wide receivers were covered. edgerrin james got stuffed his fair share. the new england defense forced turnovers WHEN IT WAS OUT OF THE QBS HANDS. i guess wide receivers wouldn't have dropped perfect passes if elway had thrown them, he's so special. ig uess they wouldn't have fumbled becuase elway would have "led" them to not fumble. i guess elway would have scrambled and found a way to throw it to COVERED receivers. you guys really hate manning and are obviously elway homers, if elway was going to "carry his team" to wins when the rest of his offense was outplayed why didn't he win all the time? why did he lose 3 super bowls before a team was built around him? why did he lose his share of afc playoff games to teams MUCH WORSE than the current new england team? no qb playing today would have been able to make up for the rest of the matchups out there.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:23 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Jason in LA
One play that shows Mannings inability to make plays was in the redzone at the end of the first half. They must have been on the five yard line or so. Manning drops back. Can't find anybody. The pass rush is coming. Now it's time for him to make a play. He steps up. He had a lane that he could have run through. He looked like he was thinking about it, but then he probably remembered that he's the slowest guy on the field. So he tries to throw the ball into the endzone, and it's damn near picked off.

If Elway had been in that situation, there's no telling what he would have done. Maybe he steps up and runs. He could have dipped his shoulder and tried to run over who even was in the way (he did that a number of times). Maybe he rolls out and runs, or finds somebody that changes their pattern. Maybe he steps up impales the ball in his WR's chest (Mark Jackson said the TD he caught to end "The Drive", the ball stuck to him, he didn't really catch it). What ever Elway would have done, it would have looked a lot better than what Manning did, and it would have had a great chance of ending up as a TD.

most hilarious post ever. time was running down in the half, running for the end zone was hardly a sure thing. he gets tackled and they don't put up ANY points in a 6-0 game.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:24 PM   #94
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again i'm not even trying to compare elway to manning or anything like that. i'm only talking about this one game, vs new england, in these conditions, at foxboro, with the rest of the offense outmatched the way it was. maybe elway plays better than manning, but he still wouldn't have done anything that remotely resembled "looking good".
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:27 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
again i'm not even trying to compare elway to manning or anything like that. i'm only talking about this one game, vs new england, in these conditions, at foxboro, with the rest of the offense outmatched the way it was. maybe elway plays better than manning, but he still wouldn't have done anything that remotely resembled "looking good".


Who cares cornhole! and how on gods green earth would you know anyways? truth is you dont ! no one does!
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:28 PM   #96
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I love the way the apologists twist back and forth to protect poor widdle Peyton. First they say nobody could have beaten this great New England defense today. Then they say Colts receivers were dropping passes when they were open.

Which is it?

Doesn't matter, just as long as Peyton gets a fresh round of excuses.

rofl
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:29 PM   #97
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Again, losing to a better team with a better seed at their stadium is not choking.
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:30 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
I love the way the apologists twist back and forth to protect poor widdle Peyton. First they say nobody could have beaten this great New England defense today. Then they say Colts receivers were dropping passes when they were open.

Which is it?

Doesn't matter, just as long as Peyton gets a fresh round of excuses.

rofl

Isnt that the truth..............
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:34 PM   #99
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Again, losing to a better team with a better seed at their stadium is not choking.
Not even showing up when you already have a reputation for getting whipped by a particular team is indeed choking.

The very worst kind of choking.......

Last edited by -Slap-; 01-16-2005 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 01-16-2005, 07:35 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
I love the way the apologists twist back and forth to protect poor widdle Peyton. First they say nobody could have beaten this great New England defense today. Then they say Colts receivers were dropping passes when they were open.

Which is it?

Doesn't matter, just as long as Peyton gets a fresh round of excuses.

rofl
i specifically said no other QB WITH the rest of the colts offense today, which includes the drops. so no contradiction there, try again. seems like you're the one digging and stretching to try and pin a nonexistent "choke job" on manning. the drops were also partially a result of the new england D's pressure on the WRs.
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