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View Poll Results: Choke Job?
Big Time! 36 41.86%
Yes. 22 25.58%
No. 23 26.74%
Greatest Season Ever! All Hail Peyton Manning! 5 5.81%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2005, 06:34 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
I can assure you Manning would trade his receivers for Philly's receivers in a heartbeat if it came with a defense swap.
Now that's total bull****. If it was true, why did Peyton endorse locking up Marvin with a big contract? They could have brought in two stud defensive free agents this summer for that kind of money.
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Old 01-17-2005, 06:38 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
Now that's total bull****. If it was true, why did Peyton endorse locking up Marvin with a big contract? They could have brought in two stud defensive free agents this summer for that kind of money.

Probably bird in the hand theory would be my guess....Certainly no guarantee they would spend it elsewhere and certainly no guarantee who they spent it on would be worth a damn.

Philly has a huge contract on McNabb, Owens and still have a great defense....No reason why the Colts can't do the same with Manning and Harrison if Dungy is such a defensive guru.
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Old 01-17-2005, 06:52 PM   #303
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but the eagles still pay a ton for corners and safties but not so much for LB's & DT's. They use one gap tackles that get up field. Their LB's are more or less for run stuffing (as a priority) and zone coverage. Pretty easy fill. They will spend money on Ends though (Kearse) -
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Old 01-17-2005, 06:53 PM   #304
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McNabb is making serious bank, but he didn't get anything close to that outlandish signing bonus Peyton commanded.
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Old 01-17-2005, 06:59 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
McNabb is making serious bank, but he didn't get anything close to that outlandish signing bonus Peyton commanded.

Which should help the Colts on the cap cause that spreads out the damage..Haven't looked it up but I'm guessing McNabb's cap hit will be equal or higher than Mannings real soon as he gets deeper into that big payday he got.

The Colts will part ways with Pollard, Rob Morris and probably James this offseason so there shouldn't be any reason why they can't buy themselves a quality CB and MLB. The dumbest move the Colts ever made was letting Jim Johnson leave. He put together the only quality defense the Colts have had since being in Indy.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:03 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Which should help the Colts on the cap cause that spreads out the damage..Haven't looked it up but I'm guessing McNabb's cap hit will be equal or higher than Mannings real soon as he gets deeper into that big payday he got.
That's a complete fabrication. Manning's bonus dwarfed McNabb's (and all others until Vick's deal). You're actually trying to argue that McNabb's contract is worse for the Eagles because he got less guaranteed money?

Come on.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:08 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
That's a complete fabrication. Manning's bonus dwarfed McNabb's (and all others until Vick's deal). You're actually trying to argue that McNabb's contract is worse for the Eagles because he got less guaranteed money?

Come on.

Most deals are near league min early then start to step up a bunch after a few years. My guess is McNabb's is near those bigger base years and his per year cap number will be equal or higher than Manning's the next year or two as Manning's will be the prorating of that monster bonus and a near league min base. Obviously Manning's will eventually surpass McNabb's if no renegotiations are done but I bet in the next 2-4 years it will be very similar. By the time Manning's starts really surpassing McNabb's the Eagles will be had by the short hairs and will have to give him a Manning/Vick type of bonus.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:09 PM   #308
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You know for all the **** Philly gave McNabb on draft day, he really enjoys playing in philly.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:16 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Most deals are near league min early then start to step up a bunch after a few years. My guess is McNabb's is near those bigger base years and his per year cap number will be equal or higher than Manning's the next year or two as Manning's will be the prorating of that monster bonus and a near league min base. Obviously Manning's will eventually surpass McNabb's if no renegotiations are done but I bet in the next 2-4 years it will be very similar. By the time Manning's starts really surpassing McNabb's the Eagles will be had by the short hairs and will have to give him a Manning/Vick type of bonus.
You're basically admitting that you don't know anything about McNabb's deal. All we know is that Manning's record shattering signing bonus sent huge ripples through the League. Ray Lewis called his agent screaming bloody murder because his deal wasn't remotely in the same ballpark.

There's no way you can compare non guaranteed money to a signing bonus that never going to be renegotiated because its already been paid.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:44 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
I'm not buying your contention that all the Manning incompletions yesterday were 100% the fault of the WRs. An incompletion can be the fault of the QB, the WR, or both, but in most cases, when the WR corps and the QB are not on the same page for an entire game, there's plenty of blame to go around (ie: Manning gets some of it.)




OK, so you really don't know what you're talking about when you speak of what Elway could or could not have done. Thanks for admitting it.
why would i blame ALL his incompletions on the receivers? follow along a little more closely please, i didn't expect manning to have a perfect game. the balls the receivers dropped however, were not poorly thrown, they literally hit the WRs in the hands. stokeley even said as much after the game.

and as for elway, i wasn't watching him in 1987, but i watched him after that, so i know plenty. it's a pure copout to say "oh you didn't watch him, you don't know". the simple FACT is that he had a good defense and when he didn't, his teams were mediocre, so he wasn't single handedly winning any playoff games.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:46 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
Now that's total bull****. If it was true, why did Peyton endorse locking up Marvin with a big contract? They could have brought in two stud defensive free agents this summer for that kind of money.
The key was "with a defensive swap" in Naptowns statement.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:49 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Anubis_Zyklon
yea, but Nap dont you think that Dungy would have run the ball more if he were going conservative? he only ran James like 15 times man. thats hardly any touches especially with the game as close as it was.
he only ran 15 times because the early drives were stalled by drops and so on. when you don't run that many plays period, you are'nt going to run that many times either. later on after they fell behind they were in catchup mode a bit so running then was tougher. as far as whether belicheck pulled out all the stops, it's obvious he didn't because they used more schemes and fronts this time than the regular season game. i don't need a link, i watched the games and it sort of makes sense to assume that belicheck, crafty as he is, isn't going to show manning everything he has in the first game when it's beyond likely he'll see them again later in the year. the game was sort of within reach, sure, but manning's offense didn't stop getting outplayed and NE's defense didn't let up one bit. manning did what he could, and perhaps he could have done more and read the defenses better (even though reading a belicheck defense is certainly tough), but he certainly didn't CHOKE or GAG the game away as some of you seem to love saying. i have no doubts if the colts oline elevated their play and the receivers were more clutch that manning would have performed much much better. now manning DID CHOKE last year's afc championship game by forcing bad throws and turning it over, but that didn't happen this time. if it had i wouldn't be arguing.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:52 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by -Slap-
Now that's total bull****. If it was true, why did Peyton endorse locking up Marvin with a big contract? They could have brought in two stud defensive free agents this summer for that kind of money.
bringing in two stud defensive free agents hardly brings you up to the level of philly's defense -- jim johnson is an incredible coordinator and they have TONS of stars on the team. i don't know whether peyton would trade, despite that, though, because i think the colts believe dungy can do a lot with a little on defense (and i think that's pretty true) while manning can be overpowering with the tools he has at times. the formula just doesn't work against one team, unfortunately that team always plays them in the playoffs.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:54 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Probably bird in the hand theory would be my guess....Certainly no guarantee they would spend it elsewhere and certainly no guarantee who they spent it on would be worth a damn.

Philly has a huge contract on McNabb, Owens and still have a great defense....No reason why the Colts can't do the same with Manning and Harrison if Dungy is such a defensive guru.
actually the eagles have this pretty good management strategy of locking up their young stars early on and they also hit a lot with their draft picks. lito sheppard and brown were supposed to be the weak links of the defense this year ... unproven cbs attempting to replace two greats in vincent and taylor. but they've both played at a pro bowl level, it's insane. i don't think the colts front office could pull something like this off, infact i don't really see ANY other teams doing this. the eagles are set for a long time. i think the colts goal is to get a decent defense with as little money as possible, and the way their D has improved i'd say it's happening. the D will be better next year as their younger guys mature.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:02 PM   #315
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mcnabb's O-line is much much better than peyton's, by the way. obviously they're both great players with different strengths, but this notion that mcnabb needs less in terms of salary cap help to accomplish what he does isn't true. peyton makes a bad O-line serviceable and makes players like stokley look like superstars, as well as compensates for a bad defense with the sheer # of yards/points he can put up.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:02 PM   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
why would i blame ALL his incompletions on the receivers? follow along a little more closely please, i didn't expect manning to have a perfect game. the balls the receivers dropped however, were not poorly thrown, they literally hit the WRs in the hands. stokeley even said as much after the game.

and as for elway, i wasn't watching him in 1987, but i watched him after that, so i know plenty. it's a pure copout to say "oh you didn't watch him, you don't know". the simple FACT is that he had a good defense and when he didn't, his teams were mediocre, so he wasn't single handedly winning any playoff games.
I expected the league MVP to put up some points, CornStore... and it's a pretty sure bet most football fans did. (The 3 Indy ended up with would have to be credited to the kicker, despite the acknowledgement that the offense did get the team within field goal range). And while some passes were dropped after hitting receivers in the hands, even the blindest Colts homer would have to admit that Peyton did not turn in a flawless performance yesterday and deserves a significant amount of the culpability for the loss. Certainly the Colts defense can't be assigned much of the blame after being on the field 2/3 of the game.

As to Elway in his prime, your opinion has lost all credibility in my estimation with your
continued expounding despite the admission that you do not know what you're talking about (otherwise known as pulling bs out of your nether regions). Hence, this facet of the debate is, to all intents and purposes, over, thank you very much.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:04 PM   #317
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Why in the hell are people even arguing Elway to Manning?

The great QB of all-time compared to a guy whos been to the AFC title game once in a 7 year career? It's smarter to just let those arguements go than to actually argue such dumb stuff.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:06 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Blueflame
I expected the league MVP to put up some points, CornStore... and it's a pretty sure bet most football fans did. (The 3 Indy ended up with would have to be credited to the kicker, despite the acknowledgement that the offense did get the team within field goal range). And while some passes were dropped after hitting receivers in the hands, even the blindest Colts homer would have to admit that Peyton did not turn in a flawless performance yesterday and deserves a significant amount of the culpability for the loss. Certainly the Colts defense can't be assigned much of the blame after being on the field 2/3 of the game.

As to Elway in his prime, your opinion has lost all credibility in my estimation with your
continued expounding despite the admission that you do not know what you're talking about (otherwise known as pulling bs out of your nether regions). Hence, this facet of the debate is, to all intents and purposes, over, thank you very much.

copout/dodge on the elway thing. how exactly do i not know what i'm talking about? because i didn't watch his every move in 1987? i know what type of player he was and what he was capable of. the facts don't lie. the times elway and his broncos were above mediocre (.500 level) and made the playoffs, they had a high ranking defense in 87-98. and in 97/98 he had a more than allstar supporting cast. i don't see what exactly he did that manning has been unable to do in terms of success without a supporting cast. manning manages to go 13-3 without the benefit of a good defense.

on the peyton thing ... i never said he turned in a flawless performance or that he deserves "some of the blame". that's a far cry from "HAHA PEYTON CHOKED AND GAGGED, HOW OVERRATED"

he could have done more, no doubt about it, but if anyone choked in this game, it was the colts O-line and the receivers that fumbled/dropped passes that were thrown right to them. i never blamed the colts defense in that game either, they played pretty well, better than expected. when i reference how bad the colts defense is, i mean "in general".
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:09 PM   #319
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Here's a good question...

Should the MVP award be given out after playoffs?
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:11 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amesj523
Here's a good question...

Should the MVP award be given out after playoffs?
Yes, but the votes should be in before the playoffs, just the announcement should be after.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:12 PM   #321
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Yes, but the votes should be in before the playoffs, just the announcement should be after.

I guess you missed my point then.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:12 PM   #322
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Here's a good question...

Should the MVP award be given out after playoffs?
No because the MVP is an award that rewards a players performance based on the regular season, playoffs have nothing to do with it...and should never have anything to do with it...Plain and simple...
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:13 PM   #323
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mcnabb's O-line is much much better than peyton's, by the way. obviously they're both great players with different strengths, but this notion that mcnabb needs less in terms of salary cap help to accomplish what he does isn't true. peyton makes a bad O-line serviceable and makes players like stokley look like superstars, as well as compensates for a bad defense with the sheer # of yards/points he can put up.
More of the same bull**** from the Peyton worshippers. Indianapolis has a very good, but not surprisingly very overshadowed, offensive line.

This is the exact reason why people hate the Manning lovers so much. None of the Colts are anything without Peyton. He makes everybody look good. What a crock of ****. The guy is a statue, but he rarely ever gets touched and its because "Peyton makes a bad O-line serviceable".

Hero worshipping homos like Cornwhore really need to take a break with this ****. It embarrassing already and its why people delight in Peyton's annual playoff pratfalls.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:14 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CornStore
copout/dodge on the elway thing. how exactly do i not know what i'm talking about? because i didn't watch his every move in 1987? i know what type of player he was and what he was capable of. the facts don't lie. the times elway and his broncos were above mediocre (.500 level) and made the playoffs, they had a high ranking defense in 87-98. and in 97/98 he had a more than allstar supporting cast. i don't see what exactly he did that manning has been unable to do in terms of success without a supporting cast. manning manages to go 13-3 without the benefit of a good defense.

on the peyton thing ... i never said he turned in a flawless performance or that he deserves "some of the blame". that's a far cry from "HAHA PEYTON CHOKED AND GAGGED, HOW OVERRATED"

he could have done more, no doubt about it, but if anyone choked in this game, it was the colts O-line and the receivers that fumbled/dropped passes that were thrown right to them. i never blamed the colts defense in that game either, they played pretty well, better than expected. when i reference how bad the colts defense is, i mean "in general".
Opinions vary, CornStore... and as stated above, yours on this subject no longer carries any credibility whatsoever with me. Therefore, I'm doing you the profound favor of changing the subject from one in which you are admittedly ignorant. Why you'd want to continue to showcase that ignorance escapes me.

Expectations were high for the league MVP and he failed to live up to his hype. Ergo, he choked. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
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Old 01-17-2005, 08:14 PM   #325
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I guess you missed my point then.
Your point was that the playoffs should have an effect on people voting for the MVP...and its a simple NO.

I do thin they should wait until the end of the season to announce awards, but playoffs shouldnt have anything to do with swaying peoples votes.
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