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View Poll Results: Choke Job?
Big Time! 36 41.86%
Yes. 22 25.58%
No. 23 26.74%
Greatest Season Ever! All Hail Peyton Manning! 5 5.81%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-17-2005, 02:59 PM   #226
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Keep trying to spin the numbers. Bottom line is McNabb is 6-4 in the post season, with no credible help on offense, before Westbrook this season. He's taking the Eagles to their fourth straight Conference Championship Game.

Manning is 3-5 in the playoffs, with one appearance in the AFC Championship Game. A four interception extravaganza.

Manning has also had one more season as a starter. One and a half, really.

Quote:
Donovan McNabb - Post Season

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2000 tam W,21-3 | 24 33 161 2 1 | 8 32 1
2000 nyg L,10-20 | 20 41 181 1 0 | 5 17 0
2001 tam W,31-9 | 16 25 194 2 1 | 4 57 0
2001 chi W,33-19 | 26 40 262 2 1 | 8 37 1
2001 ram L,24-29 | 18 30 171 1 1 | 4 26 1
2002 atl W,20-6 | 20 30 247 1 0 | 4 24 0
2002 tam L,10-27 | 26 49 243 0 1 | 3 17 0
2003 gnb W,20-17 | 21 39 248 2 0 | 11 107 0
2003 car L,3-14 | 10 22 100 0 3 | 2 10 0
2004 min W,27-14 | 21 33 286 2 0 | 3 3 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 202 342 2093 13 8 | 52 330 3
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:03 PM   #227
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The only playoff game where McNabb's numbers were really awful were last year against Carolina. He came into that game with multiple injuries and the Panthers cheap shotted him out of action early in the second half.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:07 PM   #228
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McNabb didn't have three 1000 yard WRs, or a 1500 yard RB. Before TO, McNabb never had any 1000 yard WRs, and he only had one 1000 yard back (Staley had 1029 in '02). McNabb is a lot like Elway was in his early day. He had nobodies around him, but he took them far. He didn't do as good as Elway, because Elway did win the championship games, but McNabb has taken a bunch of nobodies there.

Manning on the other hand has all the weapons, and he's only made it there once. Give McNabb those weapons and he'll lead the team to a Super Bowl victory.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:15 PM   #229
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I'd say Manning is a big time choker because of all the weapons he has. Everything is set up perfect for him. What more can they do to get this guy a championship? He has everything any QB would ever need on offense. And his defense showed up and played well. Everything was perfect. What they hell happened?

McNabb has lost some big games, but he had glaring holes on that team. He had some good defenses, but nobody on offense to help him out.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:17 PM   #230
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I'm not sure....did Manning choke again today too?
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:18 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in LA
I'd say Manning is a big time choker because of all the weapons he has. Everything is set up perfect for him. What more can they do to get this guy a championship? He has everything any QB would ever need on offense. And his defense showed up and played well. Everything was perfect. What they hell happened?

McNabb has lost some big games, but he had glaring holes on that team. He had some good defenses, but nobody on offense to help him out.
McNabb was never truly healthy last year, either. He was still recovering from the broken ankle that cost him six games in 2002 and he played most of the season with a bad thumb.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:23 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsWin2002
I'm not sure....did Manning choke again today too?
They won't let me edit the title. I already screwed up by putting his whole name in the title, after being a little anal retentive bastard and telling everybody not to do that anymore.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:29 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
They won't let me edit the title. I already screwed up by putting his whole name in the title, after being a little anal retentive bastard and telling everybody not to do that anymore.
I did notice you caught hell for that.

I found it quite amusing. I guess I'm easily amused.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:30 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
They won't let me edit the title. I already screwed up by putting his whole name in the title, after being a little anal retentive bastard and telling everybody not to do that anymore.
That was kind of funny.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:32 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
McNabb was never truly healthy last year, either. He was still recovering from the broken ankle that cost him six games in 2002 and he played most of the season with a bad thumb.
Last year McNabb got sacked 13 times in the playoffs, and that was only in a game and a half. The Packers got him seven times, but he still led them to a win. The Panthers got him six times in the first half before he had to leave the game.

If Manning had no O line and below average WRs and RBs he wouldn't even lead his team to the playoffs.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:47 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatsWin2002
I did notice you caught hell for that.

I found it quite amusing. I guess I'm easily amused.
Welcome to the "easily-amused" club...
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:47 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
Keep trying to spin the numbers.

No need to spin at all...The numbers speak for themselves...

1 TD, 5 INT's and 0-3 in the last three Championship games. If you are going to create a thread claiming Manning choked yesterday then surely you aren't going to try and spin that stuff. Not to mention 3 of the last 4 and 5 of the last 7 Super Bowl winners have come from the AFC. It's no secrete that the AFC has been much tougher of late than the NFC and we don't need to even talk about this embarrassing year for the NFC.

I commend McNabb for getting to the championship games but that has had as much to do with the Eagles D as anything.

As for not having 1000 yard receivers, well there is probably a reason for that. Stokely had a career high of 357 yards before he met Manning. Freddie Mitchell was drafted a few spots higher than Reggie Wayne in the same draft, Pinkston was drafted just 5 spots into the 2nd round and showed enough to get a very big contract extension, and Westbrook is the best receiving RB in the league at this point. So I'm not willing to go down the "he hasn't been given the weapons" BS.

McNabb is a playmaker and a good QB but he has buckled in the big game as much as anyone. If you are going to bust Manning's balls for not getting over the top despite being saddled with a piss poor defense then their is no way in hell you are selling me any different on McNabb. We will see how he does against the NE D in a couple weeks. If he goes out and kicks them in the teeth then he will deserve the ball licking you boys are currently giving him.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:49 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason in LA
Last year McNabb got sacked 13 times in the playoffs, and that was only in a game and a half. The Packers got him seven times, but he still led them to a win. The Panthers got him six times in the first half before he had to leave the game.

If Manning had no O line and below average WRs and RBs he wouldn't even lead his team to the playoffs.

Sacks often times have as much to do with the QB's ability to read the defense and get rid of the ball quickly as it does the O Line. The Colts O Line is nothing special, that much I can assure you. The only high pick on that line is Tarik Glenn and he might be the most overrated O Lineman in the league. He leads the league in false starts for a reason.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:50 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Yes.....A good defense that will allow them to make it to Super Bowl games and give them a chance to win a ring. No team has ever won the Super Bowl with a well below average defense and in this day and age of media hype the "Great" label only gets passed out to QB's with the coveted rings.

Elway, Montana, Young, Favre, and on down the list would have all been ringless if they weren't fortunate enough to have some really good defenses on occassion during their career.
and those defenses would have been ringless without Elway, Montana, Young, and Favre to lead the team with big plays and scoring. You can't win with no points.
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:54 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circle Orange
and those defenses would have been ringless without Elway, Montana, Young, and Favre to lead the team with big plays and scoring. You can't win with no points.
Chef fan may have forgotten that when Elway led the Broncos to b2b SB wins, the DC was Greg Robinson....
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Old 01-17-2005, 03:56 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Sacks often times have as much to do with the QB's ability to read the defense and get rid of the ball quickly as it does the O Line. The Colts O Line is nothing special, that much I can assure you. The only high pick on that line is Tarik Glenn and he might be the most overrated O Lineman in the league. He leads the league in false starts for a reason.
Did you watch those two games last year? That was a bad O line, not McNabb holding onto the ball too long.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:01 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
No need to spin at all...The numbers speak for themselves...

1 TD, 5 INT's and 0-3 in the last three Championship games. If you are going to create a thread claiming Manning choked yesterday then surely you aren't going to try and spin that stuff. Not to mention 3 of the last 4 and 5 of the last 7 Super Bowl winners have come from the AFC. It's no secrete that the AFC has been much tougher of late than the NFC and we don't need to even talk about this embarrassing year for the NFC.

I commend McNabb for getting to the championship games but that has had as much to do with the Eagles D as anything.

As for not having 1000 yard receivers, well there is probably a reason for that. Stokely had a career high of 357 yards before he met Manning. Freddie Mitchell was drafted a few spots higher than Reggie Wayne in the same draft, Pinkston was drafted just 5 spots into the 2nd round and showed enough to get a very big contract extension, and Westbrook is the best receiving RB in the league at this point. So I'm not willing to go down the "he hasn't been given the weapons" BS.

McNabb is a playmaker and a good QB but he has buckled in the big game as much as anyone. If you are going to bust Manning's balls for not getting over the top despite being saddled with a piss poor defense then their is no way in hell you are selling me any different on McNabb. We will see how he does against the NE D in a couple weeks. If he goes out and kicks them in the teeth then he will deserve the ball licking you boys are currently giving him.
If that was true, then TO's numbers would have dropped this year. But that wasn't the case. At the time TO got hurt, he was on pace to have career bests in yards and TDs.

Just because a player is drafted high doesn't mean he'll produce. When McNabb got a proven WR he showed what kind of QB he could be.

Like I said before, if McNabb had everything going for him like Manning did, then I'd agree with you. He would have been a choker. But McNabb had a bunch of nobodies on offense.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:01 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Pinkston was drafted just 5 spots into the 2nd round and showed enough to get a very big contract extension,
Let's just isolate this, for starters. You believe Todd Pinkston is a quality NFL wide receiver? Starting material for a contender?





I wonder how many neutral observers would arrive at that assessment. I wonder how many would say it after they saw Todd defecate in fear on Monday Night because he saw a safety closing on him.

Expect Greg Lewis to be the man for Philly in the playoffs this year.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:04 PM   #244
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and Westbrook is the best receiving RB in the league at this point. So I'm not willing to go down the "he hasn't been given the weapons" BS.
How did Westbrook do in the playoff game against Carolina last season, Naptown?

No BS.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:06 PM   #245
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Pinkston's best year was 60 catches for 798 yards and 7 TDs. TO, with the same QB, was on pace for about 90 catches, 1500 yards, and about 15-17 TDs. If McNabb was the problem, then TO would have had Pinkston type numbers. Pinkston's wiff against the Skins kills the agrument alone.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:08 PM   #246
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How did Westbrook do in the playoff game against Carolina last season, Naptown?

No BS.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:10 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Slap-
Let's just isolate this, for starters. You believe Todd Pinkston is a quality NFL wide receiver? Starting material for a contender?





I wonder how many neutral observers would arrive at that assessment. I wonder how many would say it after they saw Todd defecate in fear on Monday Night because he saw a safety closing on him.

Expect Greg Lewis to be the man for Philly in the playoffs this year.
There's a reason why E-girls fans refer to him as "Stinkston"...
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:25 PM   #248
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Didnt Pinkston drop another pass yesterday because his wandering eyes were looking to see if he was going to take a shot or not?
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:30 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Tredici
Over half of Jake's intercepts were the wideouts tipping or dropping the ball. Doesn't make a bit of difference. It's a stat that goes against the QB.

If you want to excuse Peyton, then let's see a post where you offer Jake the same excuse. Again, you are the one presenting a different point of view than you had just a few short weeks ago.
even a three year old could tell the difference between the two situations, but just incase you're the only toddler on the internet i'll spell it out for you:

an interception on a tipped ball is the responsibility of some combination of the QB and receiver, whereas a fumble AFTER the receiver has possession of the ball is 100% his responsiblity. a tipped int can occur because the QB made an inaccurate throw and the receiver tipped it as a result or because the QB made a poor decision to throw into coverage and as a result it was battled for by a defender/receiver and intercepted as a result. i'm willing to give plummer a free pass on those ints that were 100% the receiver's fault, of course, and never said otherwise. however, based on plummer's history of accuracy and decisionmaking i have a hard time believing that the majority of his ints were 1) even on tipped balls and 2) on tipped balls AND solely the responsiblity of the receiver. manning however is known for his accuracy and decisionmaking and history bears this out. in yesterday's game the balls were quite simply dropped or fumbled 100% because of the receivers.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:31 PM   #250
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Quote:
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Didnt Pinkston drop another pass yesterday because his wandering eyes were looking to see if he was going to take a shot or not?
I didn't see that, but I didn't see every snap, either. I sure wouldn't be surprised. Hell, if I was freakishly skinny like that, self preservation would be high on my list of priorities, too. Hit him too hard, you might kill his tapeworm.
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