Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed From GA HS Books. - The Orange Mane

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-13-2005, 11:02 AM

Seems some religious zealots in the Peach state were trying to purvey their own agenda in one school system.

-------------------------------------------------
By DOUG GROSS, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - A federal judge Thursday ordered a suburban Atlanta school system to remove stickers in its high school biology textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact," saying the disclaimers were an unconstitutional endorsement of religion.
"By denigrating evolution, the school board appears to be endorsing the well-known prevailing alternative theory, creationism or variations thereof, even though the sticker does not specifically reference any alternative theories," U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper said.

The stickers were put in the books by school officials in Cobb County in 2002. They read: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

"This is a great day for Cobb County students," said Michael Manely, an attorney for the parents who sued over the stickers. "They're going to be permitted to learn science unadulterated by religious dogma."

Doug Goodwin, a spokesman for Cobb County schools, had no immediate comment.

The schools added the stickers after more than 2,000 parents complained the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life. Six parents of students and the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) then sued, contending the disclaimers violated the separation of church and state.

At a trial in federal court in November, the school system defended the stickers as a show of tolerance, not religious activism.

"Science and religion are related and they're not mutually exclusive," school district attorney Linwood Gunn said. "This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science."

But the judge disagreed: "While evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community."

The case is one of several battles waged in recent years in the Bible Belt over what role evolution should play in science books.

Last year, Georgia's education chief proposed a science curriculum that dropped the word "evolution" in favor of "changes over time." That plan was dropped amid protests by teachers.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ution_stickers

Another article along the same lines.........
The New Monkey Trial

orangeatheist · 01-13-2005, 11:59 AM

Bravo!

Evolution is a fact and a theory

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 12:14 PM

Oh boy... here we go again

W*GS · 01-13-2005, 12:40 PM

Ya know, why don't these Bible freak parents take their kids out of the public schools and send to Christian schools? There is a market for educating one's kids.

Sheesh.

alkemical · 01-13-2005, 12:41 PM

wags what do you think about abolishing the 10th plank of socialism?

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amesj523

wags what do you think about abolishing the 10th plank of socialism?

Though i fear this is something i should know... what the hell is the 10th plank of socialism?

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 01:26 PM

call me an idiot I don't care but the evolutionary theory is a theory...hence the name. And to present it as fact is just as wrong as presenting creationalism as fact.

Phantom · 01-13-2005, 01:33 PM

Macro-evolution is theory, conjecture, unproven ....
Micro-evolution is factual, observable, able to be reproduced in a lab, etc.

If Creationism is not allow in the classroom , then neither should Macro-evolution. To use Beerslugs terminology - those Non-bible thumping freaks - should understand this.

Thousands of parents have a problem with the book - so the sticker was added. A handful of parents have a problem with the sticker, so it is removed and you assume the 'good guys' win again?

alkemical · 01-13-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Though i fear this is something i should know... what the hell is the 10th plank of socialism?

state run schools.

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Macro-evolution is theory, conjecture, unproven ....
Micro-evolution is factual, observable, able to be reproduced in a lab, etc.

Sorry but a scientific theory is a long way from conjecture / unproven...just helping to keep the terms straight

Theory - is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amesj523

state run schools.

Thanks - not that you were asking me the question but NO - (I'm looking to keep my job)

alkemical · 01-13-2005, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Thanks - not that you were asking me the question but NO - (I'm looking to keep my job)

Ahso.

I'm torn on it dave -

Part of me thinks that state schools are needed, but would getting rid of them and running charter schools do better -

but then it creates a haves-have nots situation -

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Macro-evolution is theory, conjecture, unproven ....
Micro-evolution is factual, observable, able to be reproduced in a lab, etc.

If Creationism is not allow in the classroom , then neither should Macro-evolution. To use Beerslugs terminology - those Non-bible thumping freaks - should understand this.

Thousands of parents have a problem with the book - so the sticker was added. A handful of parents have a problem with the sticker, so it is removed and you assume the 'good guys' win again?

exactly.

I don't dismiss or reject micro-evolution but macro...hell yeah.

Phantom · 01-13-2005, 01:41 PM

It's simple - Creationism and Macro-Evolution are not science. Both are religious in nature as they use theories to explain the origin of life. Neither should be taught in public schools.

Phantom · 01-13-2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Sorry but a scientific theory is a long way from conjecture / unproven...just helping to keep the terms straight

Theory - is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. One scientist cannot create a theory; he can only create a hypothesis.

Still not fact.

Plus Creationism - if you are really interested - also uses scentific theroies to prove it's claims and is verified by members of the scentific community.

Both are very interesting hypothesis, but cannot be reproduced in a lab, are not fact and should not be taught as such.

Spider · 01-13-2005, 01:49 PM

As someone that is going through a horror story about schools , I will add this , as I see it Religion has a place , it is called sunday school , wednesday night Bible study , if a student wants to venture futher into Religion , that is his or hers choice , Ames , State ran schools are a great Idea and have their merit , while I agree the one size fits all approach does not apply to individual needs , it is better then alot of the alternitives I have encountered..Some of these private schools cost as much as college , then you get into the medical aspect , for example State ran schools are required to have a Nurse , that can administer first aid , and general medical services ,Kids + playgrounds = injuries .

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 01:51 PM

Don't get me wrong I want Religion and State seperated. But what they are teaching in MACRO-evolution and Big Bang are theories and should not be taught as fact. There are other theories out there and one happens to be creationalism.

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Still not fact.

Plus Creationism - if you are really interested - also uses scentific theroies to prove it's claims and is verified by members of the scentific community.

Both are very interesting hypothesis, but cannot be reproduced in a lab, are not fact and should not be taught as such.

There are alot of scientific theories (not laws but theories) being taught in schools, should we get rid of all of them or just the ones that clash with peoples religious beliefs?

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

There are alot of scientific theories (not laws but theories) being taught in schools, should we get rid of all of them or just the ones that clash with peoples religious beliefs?

Name one.

Mile High Shack · 01-13-2005, 01:55 PM

I am NOT even getting into this again...everyone knows where I stand

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascal

Name one.

Einstiens theory of relativity

TheDave · 01-13-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

I am NOT even getting into this again...everyone knows where I stand

I partly with you shack... i'm trying real hard to skirt the nasty stuff..

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Einstiens theory of relativity

I had that taught in a physics class, although it might have been mentioned in passing, as an elective course not something required. And I would say yes that Einsteins theory should not be taught in required courses. General science classes shouldn't be presenting theories IMO, now specific science classes...physics for example...then that's fine but still both sides of the argument should be presented.

Bronco_Beerslug · 01-13-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Still not fact.

Plus Creationism - if you are really interested - also uses scentific theroies to prove it's claims and is verified by members of the scentific community.

Both are very interesting hypothesis, but cannot be reproduced in a lab, are not fact and should not be taught as such.

I was wondering what scientists have verified creationism theories? Is there a site that shows who those scientists are?

Rascal · 01-13-2005, 02:01 PM

scientists thought the world was flat, but until there is hard core evidence it is still a theory no matter how many scientists put their eggs into it.

01-13-2005, 11:02 AM	#1
Bronco_Beerslug Angling in the Deep Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains Posts: 24,281	Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed From GA HS Books. Seems some religious zealots in the Peach state were trying to purvey their own agenda in one school system. ------------------------------------------------- By DOUG GROSS, Associated Press Writer ATLANTA - A federal judge Thursday ordered a suburban Atlanta school system to remove stickers in its high school biology textbooks that call evolution "a theory, not a fact," saying the disclaimers were an unconstitutional endorsement of religion. "By denigrating evolution, the school board appears to be endorsing the well-known prevailing alternative theory, creationism or variations thereof, even though the sticker does not specifically reference any alternative theories," U.S. District Judge Clarence Cooper said. The stickers were put in the books by school officials in Cobb County in 2002. They read: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered." "This is a great day for Cobb County students," said Michael Manely, an attorney for the parents who sued over the stickers. "They're going to be permitted to learn science unadulterated by religious dogma." Doug Goodwin, a spokesman for Cobb County schools, had no immediate comment. The schools added the stickers after more than 2,000 parents complained the textbooks presented evolution as fact, without mentioning rival ideas about the beginnings of life. Six parents of students and the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) then sued, contending the disclaimers violated the separation of church and state. At a trial in federal court in November, the school system defended the stickers as a show of tolerance, not religious activism. "Science and religion are related and they're not mutually exclusive," school district attorney Linwood Gunn said. "This sticker was an effort to get past that conflict and to teach good science." But the judge disagreed: "While evolution is subject to criticism, particularly with respect to the mechanism by which it occurred, the sticker misleads students regarding the significance and value of evolution in the scientific community." The case is one of several battles waged in recent years in the Bible Belt over what role evolution should play in science books. Last year, Georgia's education chief proposed a science curriculum that dropped the word "evolution" in favor of "changes over time." That plan was dropped amid protests by teachers. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ution_stickers Another article along the same lines......... The New Monkey Trial Last edited by Bronco_Beerslug; 01-13-2005 at 11:09 AM..

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01-13-2005, 11:59 AM	#2
orangeatheist Champion of the Godless Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,015	Bravo! Evolution is a fact and a theory

01-13-2005, 12:14 PM	#3
TheDave Sauced... Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 15,120	Oh boy... here we go again

01-13-2005, 12:40 PM	#4
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,601	Ya know, why don't these Bible freak parents take their kids out of the public schools and send to Christian schools? There is a market for educating one's kids. Sheesh.

01-13-2005, 12:41 PM	#5
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	wags what do you think about abolishing the 10th plank of socialism?

01-13-2005, 01:26 PM	#7
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,582 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	call me an idiot I don't care but the evolutionary theory is a theory...hence the name. And to present it as fact is just as wrong as presenting creationalism as fact.

01-13-2005, 01:33 PM	#8
Phantom Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 1,179	Macro-evolution is theory, conjecture, unproven .... Micro-evolution is factual, observable, able to be reproduced in a lab, etc. If Creationism is not allow in the classroom , then neither should Macro-evolution. To use Beerslugs terminology - those Non-bible thumping freaks - should understand this. Thousands of parents have a problem with the book - so the sticker was added. A handful of parents have a problem with the sticker, so it is removed and you assume the 'good guys' win again?

01-13-2005, 01:41 PM	#14
Phantom Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 1,179	It's simple - Creationism and Macro-Evolution are not science. Both are religious in nature as they use theories to explain the origin of life. Neither should be taught in public schools.

01-13-2005, 01:49 PM	#16
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	As someone that is going through a horror story about schools , I will add this , as I see it Religion has a place , it is called sunday school , wednesday night Bible study , if a student wants to venture futher into Religion , that is his or hers choice , Ames , State ran schools are a great Idea and have their merit , while I agree the one size fits all approach does not apply to individual needs , it is better then alot of the alternitives I have encountered..Some of these private schools cost as much as college , then you get into the medical aspect , for example State ran schools are required to have a Nurse , that can administer first aid , and general medical services ,Kids + playgrounds = injuries .

01-13-2005, 01:51 PM	#17
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,582 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	Don't get me wrong I want Religion and State seperated. But what they are teaching in MACRO-evolution and Big Bang are theories and should not be taught as fact. There are other theories out there and one happens to be creationalism.

01-13-2005, 01:55 PM	#20
Mile High Shack Ring of Famer Cock-a-doodle-do Join Date: May 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 17,010	I am NOT even getting into this again...everyone knows where I stand

01-13-2005, 02:01 PM	#25
Rascal RIP Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 16,582 Adopt-a-Bronco: Turf	scientists thought the world was flat, but until there is hard core evidence it is still a theory no matter how many scientists put their eggs into it.