Brows raised mile-high over former Browns

[HEAV]

Sunday, April 03, 2005
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter

Everybody is questioning Denver's raid of Browns defensive linemen, and critics in Denver are pointing the finger at Broncos line coach Andre Patterson.

Patterson, of course, coached the Browns' defensive line the past two years and is at least partly responsible for Denver trading for Gerard Warren, Ebenezer Ekuban and Mike Myers and signing Courtney Brown in free agency.

Patterson has not spoken to the mainstream Denver media -- coach Mike Shanahan won't let him -- but he has been ever quotable on the Broncos' Web site.


After the trade of running back Reuben Droughns for Ekuban and Myers, Patterson said on the Web site: "Obviously, the media's thinking that I'm Tarzan, standing up on a table, beating my chest for these guys. It's nothing like that at all, with any of them.

"The guys here did their homework on making tapes of these guys. As guys have become available, they've come and asked for my opinion."

General Manager Phil Savage, meanwhile, shrugs at questions about depleting the Browns' defensive line.

He told a luncheon audience on Friday, "I'll say this: Those four linemen were on a defense that was ranked 32nd in the National Football League. Somebody tell me what the big to-do is. If we added four linemen from a team that was ranked 32nd in run defense, I think you guys would have asked me about that right off the bat."

Savage said the defensive line currently would line up this way: Orpheus Roye at left end, Jason Fisk at nose tackle and Kenard Lang at right end. Alvin McKinley would be the backup nose. Corey Jackson, Nick Eason and Amon Gordon Goordon will compete for roster spots.

"On paper, it looks a little thin," Savage said, "but this is another area where you can look for us to try to do something [in the draft]."

The Browns know that the contract leverage of Baltimore free agent Marques Douglas will drop after the draft as roster spaces get taken by rookies. Their offer to him might wind up being the best.

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plai...0789272920.xml



He told a luncheon audience on Friday, "I'll say this: Those four linemen were on a defense that was ranked 32nd in the National Football League. Somebody tell me what the big to-do is. If we added four linemen from a team that was ranked 32nd in run defense, I think you guys would have asked me about that right off the bat."

[phillybroncosnut]

Patterson will definately be the scap goat if these moves fail.

I for one, am in favor of aquiring these guys. I think it's an upgrade to what we had this past season. With the LB's and secondary that we have in place, I see great things for this line.
We had to do something along the defensive front 4. Potential alone, I'm not sure if we could have positioned ourselves any better.

[Borks147]

[QUOTE=HEAV07]Sunday, April 03, 2005
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter

Savage said the defensive line currently would line up this way: Orpheus Roye at left end, Jason Fisk at nose tackle and Kenard Lang at right end. Alvin McKinley would be the backup nose. Corey Jackson, Nick Eason and Amon Gordon Goordon will compete for roster spots.


woah, Nick Eason, OUR nick eason?

[CBF1]

Originally Posted by phillybroncosnut

Patterson will definately be the scap goat if these moves fail.

I for one, am in favor of aquiring these guys. I think it's an upgrade to what we had this past season. With the LB's and secondary that we have in place, I see great things for this line.
We had to do something along the defensive front 4. Potential alone, I'm not sure if we could have positioned ourselves any better.

Yep.... I agree. Shanny always finds someone else to lay the blame with.

[elsid13]

Everyone of the guys brought in have talent. The question is if going to team like Denver is what they need to kick it into gear.

[watermock]

Cleveland Plain Dealer. Big Fing Deal.

Yes, Nick Eason will compete for a roster spot on a depleted DL. It was never quite explained what Nick's problem was in camp, he walked out once, then was cut. Think he was still hurt. We would never bring in an injured DE right? Droughns was a street free agent we picked up for peanuts. I liked him, but he wanted his pudding after he broke out. I hope he got a nicer contract.

Brown was a free agent, so it's hardly a "raid". Warren just needs to get in shape and have someone kickin his ass. For a 4th, it's a potential steal. Eke is a former first and can't be any worse than Hayward for a fraction of the price. Hayward wasn't anything special till he made a few plays last year. Myers was thrown in no extra charge but can play anywhere on the line.

I don't care if Clevelands defense sucked really. The whole organization sucks quite honestly. These are all players would of drafted if they were at the right place at the right time.

While Patterson is wiping his hands of the deal, one thing I find amusing is that he could of at least stepped up to the table and said "yes, I think they can help us alot..." instead of wimping out. OF COURSE Sundquist and Shanahan are going to value his opinion. Why pass the buck? I'm not really comfortable with this guy in the first place. 10 stops in 17 years? All I can say is Coyer bounced around and has done a decent job. I have grown to like Coyer, but his interview was pure babble. I wouldn't recommend Larry run for propoganda minister. His spin doesn't sell.

We can still pick up a DL or CB in the draft. I'm not sold on LeSewer and his hernia, and think he should probably be moved to safety anyway. Maybe his slow 40's indicate his balls were hurt. Who knows.

[Broncoman13]

I think a lot of Clevelands run stopping problems were more related to the talent of their LB's than that of their DL. Sure the DL is partially to blame b/c they have to make tackles too, but what Above average LB does Cleveland have? That defense is hurting in a very big way. In fact, if Cleveland were smart they'd shop that #3 pick and hope to dear God that Dallas would bite and give up their two picks in the first. Heck, it might even be smart for Cleveland to throw in a player or two for that deal. They have more holes than they have picks and money to fix..... better get some extra picks now and build that team like they've done in NE.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'm still trying to figure out which, if any, of Cleveland's back 7 would start for Denver.

[DBroncos4life]

Wasn't Kenard Lang rumored to be released because he didn't fit the 3-4? I would take him as well. Two straight years of over 60 tackles (62 and 60) and two straight years of 7 or more sacks (8 and 7). That isn't that bad for a DE. Why not go all out with former Browns players and if he would come in here cheaper I would do it in a heart beat.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Bronco Man 13

I think a lot of Clevelands run stopping problems were more related to the talent of their LB's than that of their DL. Sure the DL is partially to blame b/c they have to make tackles too, but what Above average LB does Cleveland have? That defense is hurting in a very big way. In fact, if Cleveland were smart they'd shop that #3 pick and hope to dear God that Dallas would bite and give up their two picks in the first. Heck, it might even be smart for Cleveland to throw in a player or two for that deal. They have more holes than they have picks and money to fix..... better get some extra picks now and build that team like they've done in NE.

Andra Davis is there only real good LB and he was hurt some last year.

[Ballhawk]

Some one needs to inform the media of what these four actually cost us, because they just do not seem to know. For a 4th round pick and a would be back up FB (although RD is more than that and was a lifesaver last year, thnaks RD wish you luck!), and about 3.5 mil worth of cap space we obtained 3 starting DL and a solid rotational guy.

None of them will become probowlers (Maybe Warren if things click for him), but they are young enough to give us decent depth for 3 years. Even if 2 stick around to be top backups that is better than how most of our 4th round picks turn out.

[Finger Roll]

also the Browns offense was so bad last year that their defense was always on the field. Look how much better The Falcons defense played when Vick is in the Lineup. A bad offense really hurts a defense.

[DBroncos4life]

Originally Posted by Finger Roll

also the Browns offense was so bad last year that their defense was always on the field. Look how much better The Falcons defense played when Vick is in the Lineup. A bad offense really hurts a defense.

Very very good point. Nothing helps a D like the O picking up first downs and keeping them fresh on the sideline. Rep.

[ro_50]

Guys like Pasq. look at the names that the Broncos acquired and automatically label it as a bad move. While I'm not saying all four are going to pan out, they didnt have to pay as much for them.

Wouldnt resigning Hayward at his salary equal the four are going to make this year. I know its close.

I like the addition of Myers in the RD deal. He's an high energy player, like Pope, that are not stars but are solid role players. If Warren stays in shape and w/ Myers, Fatefehi, Pope and Ellis (god helping he's healthy), thats not a bad rotation at all.

EE only had two less sacks than Hayward last season and you never know, if he gets into training camp and plays well, he could register 10 this year or at least 7. That is much better bang for your buck than Hawyard, if he gets 10 or 11 making that much money for the Jags.

As for CB, most dont realize his deal is incentive laden and not guaranteed. That means he has to be healthy for him to get paid. Its a win-win deal for him and Denver.

The moves are not the greatest, but you cant argue w/ the logic Sundquist used to get these guys. Not for a lot of money and they are all stil in their 20's.

[DBroncos4life]

Going off that it looks like this. Denver had 819 total tackles (via espn) while the Browns had 980 total tackles (via espn). If you think one tackle per play thats 161 more plays that D had to make more then ours. Thats a big difference if you ask me.

[Taco John]

If these guys were all brought in to be starters, I'd have my doubts. But in reality, only two of them are being brought in as starters. The rest are rotation guys. The two guys that this banks on is Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren. If any one of these guys pans out, we're breaking even. If they both pan out, Shanahan's a genius again (or Sundquist, or Coyer, or even Patterson).

Personally, I believe Trevor is going to be hanging around, and if that's the case, I see good things for Brown. There's a buzz about the shape that Trevor is in, and it sounds like he's coming to camp to prove something. Then add to this mix the fact that the coaches are sky high on Palepoi. It won't mean anything until he plays, but I think our defensive front is looking pretty damn good. I think some suckers will get conned into believing that all we're doing is transplanting the Browns line here... But I personally think the plan is coming together alright so far. I'm still not happy about moving DJ to the Sam position, but I'll let Coyer do his thing and see how it works out come November and December... That's when we'll know what kind of team we really have.

[Kaylore]

These guys were so cheap, I don't understand what everyone is freaking out about. If they suck we can cut them with very minimal loss. If they suck, we'll be the same as last year, and franky I'm glad that they weren't over paying for possitions that were overvalued this off season.

We still have better linebackers and a draft to go. It's amazing what a difference mocing to a winning team can make. When you know that there are a lot of good people on your team and that your team wins a lot, it takes some of the anxiety off of playing.

[Play2win]

This Cleveland team has always been a losers. I mean has THIS franchise ever won 10 games?!? They might be worse, over the course of the last 10 years, than the bengals and the cardinals.

When these guys get here they will finally be turned loose alittle. As I understand it, They were held back by their "responsibilities" in their "scheme". I don't know if they were ever allowed to rush the passer.

Well, I get this sneaking little fealing, that, they might, maybe, be allow to rush the passer, maybe just a little.

I am hoping for big things, and I expect to see them!!!

[watermock]

And I don't mind letting C. Brown fully heal. Hell, TyLaw is still in a walking boot trying to sell himself to Kansas City and he's no spring chicken.

If Brown can start light running in May, that gives him three full months till the first game, and he doesn't have to start even then. I don't want him rushed at all, there is no reason. Word up is that he's a class act. Warren is the Fat Ass Pimp Daddy Big Money. I don't mind as long as he gets his ass into shape and can anchor the line.

If Myers can play as well as Pope, he's decent depth to rotate and can play any position. Cheap Meat thrown in with Ebenezer, who should be OK after getting patched up offseason. His going under the knife to fix some wear and tear doesn't scare me either.

Let's ask this:

Would you rather take some retread back for nothing like Dayne when we have shown that players like Olandis Gary and Anderson and Droughns can get yards in our system? Even Q would squirt loose once in awhile. Or take an overrated back like Droughns, and expect him to produce better than a William Green, a first round back. If Green wasn't such an idiot, I wouldn't be against bringing him in, but I don't want the distraction of a doper in the room.

Look at what happened to Portis. Yes, he got 1,300 yards but was worked like a sled dog and his average dropped below 3.8. Gary dropped off the face of the planet. Droughns might as well, I doubt it, but I doubt he will have numbers like last year.

So the more I look at it, considering the cap situation with Pryce, our hands are tied. I don't know how else to get 4 players so cheap. Maybe we will use the money with Pryce to fill our draft money, and pick up a June 1 cut like a veteran corner. I would move LeSewer to Safety, pick up DL in either 1 or 2 and whatever, Vincent Jackson sounds cool with our second round. Pick up a nice guard with one of our 3's that fits our system, a little small with some bulldog in him with good feet. Like Hamilton only a little bigger, around 300. Keep Neil's phone number in case of injury.

I feel homeristic today so enjoy it while my mood swing is manic "up".

It's not all that bad.

[Ballhawk]

Damn! If Mock is ok with our offseason we all should be

[Dean]

Through the first five or six games the Browns were near the top in rushing defense. Once the injuries, stanrted is when they began to tumble. Their pass rush was better than ours. It looks to me like we improved and we did it at bargain basement prices. It sounds like a win-win situation to me.

[watermock]

If I'm Sundquist, I'm talking to Minnesota to either move up to 18 or maybe a 4th for Pryce. Pryce might not playing on carpet, I dunno, but he would have Pat Williams and K-Will inside of him, he could play LDE not inside, and Nap Harris would have his containment at Sam. That's not a bad group around you, not to mention Cowart at MLB and either Smoot and Winfield (the two hobbits) giving you that extra second or two to get to the passer.

Plus, he's out of the conference. I don't think Pryce wants to be traded at all however. I think he wants to get paid, or get released. Traded or Released, he still has to work a new contract. That's the underlying problem. Noone is going to pay him 5.5 million this year, even tho we eat the two years left. He considers that BANKED, and it is.

Being released lets him go wherever he wants. So he's going to be an a-hole and act like he's the good soldier? #### him and his slow pursuit on the edge, and he's too risky with the back to play inside, a little slow to play DE. So your losing half the package right there where you could move him inside/out on passing downs, unless he's TRULY recovered. So basically, nothing is really going to motivate him other than to act like he's still under contract. It's not like he's holding out or anything...he's got that big contract year. He can just act like everythings fine, so don't read alot into his working out at Dove Valley. That's just a free gym pass to keep in shape and make it look like he's not playing games, when we know he is.

These facts make bringing in the Cleveland Busts sensible. Maybe Raylee Johnson will start wondering where his nibbles are...it takes some of the urgency out of the situation in both FA and in the draft.

[Broncoman13]

Originally Posted by Taco John

If these guys were all brought in to be starters, I'd have my doubts. But in reality, only two of them are being brought in as starters. The rest are rotation guys. The two guys that this banks on is Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren. If any one of these guys pans out, we're breaking even. If they both pan out, Shanahan's a genius again (or Sundquist, or Coyer, or even Patterson).

Personally, I believe Trevor is going to be hanging around, and if that's the case, I see good things for Brown. There's a buzz about the shape that Trevor is in, and it sounds like he's coming to camp to prove something. Then add to this mix the fact that the coaches are sky high on Palepoi. It won't mean anything until he plays, but I think our defensive front is looking pretty damn good. I think some suckers will get conned into believing that all we're doing is transplanting the Browns line here... But I personally think the plan is coming together alright so far. I'm still not happy about moving DJ to the Sam position, but I'll let Coyer do his thing and see how it works out come November and December... That's when we'll know what kind of team we really have.

Have you been hearing anything about us possibly restructuring and keeping Trev? I hope we find a way to retructure him. He is one of my favorite players and if he can come in a play like the Trev of old there isn't a player in the league I'd rather have. Imagine the Line we would have with Trevor in the mix!

[baja]

I'm on record saying I think we scored big time on the Browns players.

Ask me why.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Why?