Bob Barr: 'Conservatives have plenty of cause to abandon Bush' - The Orange Mane

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 10-11-2004, 04:36 PM

Voting for president used to be so easy, at least for a conservative. There was the Republican candidate. You knew he generally stood for lower taxes, less government spending, giving fewer powers to the government, lower deficits and a zealous regard for individual privacy.

Then, there was the Democrat. You knew he generally stood for higher taxes, more government and deficit spending, and a zealous regard for civil liberties.

Throughout my own presidential voting history, the choices have rarely, if ever, been agonizing. Nixon vs. McGovern? Carter vs. Reagan? Reagan-Mondale? Dukakis, a Massachusetts liberal? Clinton? Al Gore? Ah, the good ol' days. Each of those races presented clear choices, easily resolved.

Now we have the election of 2004. For the first time in my voting life, the choice in the race for president isn't so clear And, among true conservatives, I'm not alone.

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/n...ingaction.html

TexanBob · 10-12-2004, 02:12 AM

I'll bet you agreed with Bob Barr over impeaching Clinton too, didn't you? No?

watermock · 10-12-2004, 03:12 AM

LABF pulling up quotes from Bob Barr. Incredible. God your a dumbass.

W*GS · 10-12-2004, 09:55 AM

The title of this post is made up, but I can see ardent progressives would be in a pickle - do I vote Green or for Nader, and risk making the same mistake I made in 2000 and give the Presidency back to Bush? But Kerry wants to continue the war, and increase troops, and says pre-emption is acceptable in certain circumstances.

The genuine Left is having no less a difficult time than the hardcore Right.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 10-12-2004, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanBob

I'll bet you agreed with Bob Barr over impeaching Clinton too, didn't you? No?

Heh heh heh.

How does it feel to watch Barr, the same good ol' boy who helped lead the charge to impeach GOP Public Enemy #1, stick a shiv in the Monkey King?

That's gotta hurt if you're a neocon/PNACer/bush backer.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 10-12-2004, 11:06 PM

CNN's "Undecided" Voter is a GOP Operative

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/298596.shtml

Yesterday, CNN's Bill Hemmer interviewed "undecided" voter, Edward Martos. Martos is actually a GOP operative who is involved heavily with the University of Miami College Republicans' and who has served as the Assistant Editor in Chief of the College Republicans' newsletter. He is such an undecided voter that he actually helped draft the constitution of the University Of Miami College Republicans. Martos, of course, by all measure, is not an undecided voter, but CNN refuses to report that they were duped.

watermock · 10-13-2004, 12:00 AM

You are talking to yourself you ****head.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 10-13-2004, 05:20 AM

The final nail in the coffin of "the great economy" of George Bush

Proof positive the economy is not coming up roses!

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inplim.pdf

Taxpayers filed 130.2 million U.S. individual
income tax returns for Tax Year 2002, a
decrease of 0.2 percent from the 130.5 million
returns filed for 2001. For the second consecutive
year, Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) fell, decreasing
by 2.3 percent to $6.0 trillion for 2002. This represents
the first time since prior to 1950 that total AGI
reported on individual tax returns has fallen for 2
successive years. Tax Year 2002 had several other
notable changes. Taxable income declined 4.3
percent to $4.1 trillion, total income tax fell 10.6
percent to $797.8 billion, and total tax liability decreased
10.1 percent to $834.3 billion.

No doubt some of you are wondering just how this squares with the GDP/GDI BEA claim that incomes ROSE during that period?

Real simple, you paid yourself rent for living in your own house, and you got paid heavy interest by your bank for allowing them to own your checking account!!! I kid you not. That's BushLeague economics.

******************
http://www.gillespieresearch.com/cgi...article/id=312

While one might expect to see some parallel income reporting in the GDI, it only happens by coincidence. Although the BEA considers the IRS data, it never has been able to reconcile the differences between GDI assumptions and IRS reality. Of course, the BEA sticks with the GDI assumptions, which have income rising in 2001 and 2002. The following table shows some of the specifics of comparable income components. Where wages and salaries are the single largest component in the GDI, they grew by 6.8% in 2002, according to the BEA, but the IRS reports a 0.4% contraction.
-----------------------------------
INCOME GROWTH 2002/2001
-- IRS VERSUS BEA
(Not Adjusted for Inflation)
-----------------------------------
Income Category IRS GDI
-----------------------------------
Wages & Saleries -0.4% +6.8%
Interest Income -20.9% -6.4%
Divident Income -14.9% +5.1%
-----------------------------------

Part of the difference is in imputations, which gets back into the theoretical structure of the NIPA. Any benefit one receives, either living in one's own house, or receiving free checking from a bank has an imputed income component. Free checking, for example, is calculated as imputed interest income. Not only did imputed interest income account for 21% of all personal interest income in 2002, but also it grew at an annual rate of 8.3%! As an aside, renting the house you own from yourself gets imputed as 62% of total rental income.

watermock · 10-13-2004, 05:34 AM

We made money by renting ourselves our own houses.

Your incredible. It's called rental income you dimwit. If you live in your house as a residence, all interest is deductible.

Your an imbicile.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 10-13-2004, 06:03 AM

The madness of George

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselection...325454,00.html

The evolution of George Bush's persona over the past few weeks is startling for even the most casual observers. Only a short while ago, Bush was a strong, decisive leader and Kerry was a weak, flip-flopping Massachusetts liberal. The Bush campaign expected those images to carry them through the November elections: it had cost them more than $200m (£112m) to build those caricatures and they had every reason to expect a solid return on their investment.

But those images were built on a carefully crafted stage. Despite all the flaws in the US electoral process we still force the candidates to exit that bubble a handful of times during the election, and it is some credit to the system that those three 90-minute debates can still determine the fate of an election. This year, they have helped introduce the nation to Furious George.

Bush's political operators have worked overtime to make "angry" a pejorative term this political cycle. They wielded the "too angry" attack against Howard Dean in the primaries, when it seemed Dean would be the Democratic nominee, and it helped destroy Dean's candidacy. Republicans again shouted "too angry" to discredit Al Gore's series of impassioned anti-Bush speeches earlier this year.

gunns · 10-13-2004, 07:08 AM

I get tired of all the "technical" talk about the economy. The proof is in the pudding. Food stamp cases across the nation have increased significantly across the nation since May 2001. How much:

Arizona 101% 23,659,947 in 2001 47,674,296 in 2004
Utah 93.4%
Colorado 93%
Idaho 92%
Georgia 86.6%

I don't have time to print them all but there are 33 states before you get to just a 50% increase. And every state had an increase above projection. It generally takes 10 years for a state to have an increase of 50%. Bush's joke of a tax cut has really helped. Who? We all know who. I'm middle class making 48,000 per year and got an additional $4 on my check. Kerry's plan to take away the tax cut for those that make over 200,000 per year would help. They pay 82% of the income taxes. And isn't it funny that 7 of the top states for increases in food stamp cases are the ones that generally lean Republican. When will they learn.

10-12-2004, 09:55 AM	#4
W*GS Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Earth Posts: 19,511	Lilith Granola: Progressives have plenty of cause to abandon Kerry The title of this post is made up, but I can see ardent progressives would be in a pickle - do I vote Green or for Nader, and risk making the same mistake I made in 2000 and give the Presidency back to Bush? But Kerry wants to continue the war, and increase troops, and says pre-emption is acceptable in certain circumstances. The genuine Left is having no less a difficult time than the hardcore Right.

10-13-2004, 05:20 AM	#8
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	The final nail in the coffin of "the great economy" of George Bush Proof positive the economy is not coming up roses! http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inplim.pdf Taxpayers filed 130.2 million U.S. individual income tax returns for Tax Year 2002, a decrease of 0.2 percent from the 130.5 million returns filed for 2001. For the second consecutive year, Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) fell, decreasing by 2.3 percent to $6.0 trillion for 2002. This represents the first time since prior to 1950 that total AGI reported on individual tax returns has fallen for 2 successive years. Tax Year 2002 had several other notable changes. Taxable income declined 4.3 percent to $4.1 trillion, total income tax fell 10.6 percent to $797.8 billion, and total tax liability decreased 10.1 percent to $834.3 billion. No doubt some of you are wondering just how this squares with the GDP/GDI BEA claim that incomes ROSE during that period? Real simple, you paid yourself rent for living in your own house, and you got paid heavy interest by your bank for allowing them to own your checking account!!! I kid you not. That's BushLeague economics. ****************** http://www.gillespieresearch.com/cgi...article/id=312 While one might expect to see some parallel income reporting in the GDI, it only happens by coincidence. Although the BEA considers the IRS data, it never has been able to reconcile the differences between GDI assumptions and IRS reality. Of course, the BEA sticks with the GDI assumptions, which have income rising in 2001 and 2002. The following table shows some of the specifics of comparable income components. Where wages and salaries are the single largest component in the GDI, they grew by 6.8% in 2002, according to the BEA, but the IRS reports a 0.4% contraction. ----------------------------------- INCOME GROWTH 2002/2001 -- IRS VERSUS BEA (Not Adjusted for Inflation) ----------------------------------- Income Category IRS GDI ----------------------------------- Wages & Saleries -0.4% +6.8% Interest Income -20.9% -6.4% Divident Income -14.9% +5.1% ----------------------------------- Part of the difference is in imputations, which gets back into the theoretical structure of the NIPA. Any benefit one receives, either living in one's own house, or receiving free checking from a bank has an imputed income component. Free checking, for example, is calculated as imputed interest income. Not only did imputed interest income account for 21% of all personal interest income in 2002, but also it grew at an annual rate of 8.3%! As an aside, renting the house you own from yourself gets imputed as 62% of total rental income. Last edited by L.A. BRONCOS FAN; 10-13-2004 at 05:24 AM..

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10-11-2004, 04:36 PM	#1
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Bob Barr: 'Conservatives have plenty of cause to abandon Bush' Voting for president used to be so easy, at least for a conservative. There was the Republican candidate. You knew he generally stood for lower taxes, less government spending, giving fewer powers to the government, lower deficits and a zealous regard for individual privacy. Then, there was the Democrat. You knew he generally stood for higher taxes, more government and deficit spending, and a zealous regard for civil liberties. Throughout my own presidential voting history, the choices have rarely, if ever, been agonizing. Nixon vs. McGovern? Carter vs. Reagan? Reagan-Mondale? Dukakis, a Massachusetts liberal? Clinton? Al Gore? Ah, the good ol' days. Each of those races presented clear choices, easily resolved. Now we have the election of 2004. For the first time in my voting life, the choice in the race for president isn't so clear And, among true conservatives, I'm not alone. http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/n...ingaction.html

10-12-2004, 02:12 AM	#2
TexanBob Don't Argue With Me You Know I'm Right Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,023 Adopt-a-Bronco: Darris Nash	I'll bet you agreed with Bob Barr over impeaching Clinton too, didn't you? No?

10-12-2004, 03:12 AM	#3
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	LABF pulling up quotes from Bob Barr. Incredible. God your a dumbass.

10-12-2004, 11:06 PM	#6
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	CNN's "Undecided" Voter is a GOP Operative http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/298596.shtml Yesterday, CNN's Bill Hemmer interviewed "undecided" voter, Edward Martos. Martos is actually a GOP operative who is involved heavily with the University of Miami College Republicans' and who has served as the Assistant Editor in Chief of the College Republicans' newsletter. He is such an undecided voter that he actually helped draft the constitution of the University Of Miami College Republicans. Martos, of course, by all measure, is not an undecided voter, but CNN refuses to report that they were duped.

10-13-2004, 12:00 AM	#7
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	You are talking to yourself you ****head.

10-13-2004, 05:34 AM	#9
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	We made money by renting ourselves our own houses. Your incredible. It's called rental income you dimwit. If you live in your house as a residence, all interest is deductible. Your an imbicile.

10-13-2004, 06:03 AM	#10
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	The madness of George http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselection...325454,00.html The evolution of George Bush's persona over the past few weeks is startling for even the most casual observers. Only a short while ago, Bush was a strong, decisive leader and Kerry was a weak, flip-flopping Massachusetts liberal. The Bush campaign expected those images to carry them through the November elections: it had cost them more than $200m (£112m) to build those caricatures and they had every reason to expect a solid return on their investment. But those images were built on a carefully crafted stage. Despite all the flaws in the US electoral process we still force the candidates to exit that bubble a handful of times during the election, and it is some credit to the system that those three 90-minute debates can still determine the fate of an election. This year, they have helped introduce the nation to Furious George. Bush's political operators have worked overtime to make "angry" a pejorative term this political cycle. They wielded the "too angry" attack against Howard Dean in the primaries, when it seemed Dean would be the Democratic nominee, and it helped destroy Dean's candidacy. Republicans again shouted "too angry" to discredit Al Gore's series of impassioned anti-Bush speeches earlier this year.

10-13-2004, 07:08 AM	#11
gunns I WANT DEFENSE! Defense, defense, defense Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Always Hoping Posts: 11,660 Adopt-a-Bronco: Defense	I get tired of all the "technical" talk about the economy. The proof is in the pudding. Food stamp cases across the nation have increased significantly across the nation since May 2001. How much: Arizona 101% 23,659,947 in 2001 47,674,296 in 2004 Utah 93.4% Colorado 93% Idaho 92% Georgia 86.6% I don't have time to print them all but there are 33 states before you get to just a 50% increase. And every state had an increase above projection. It generally takes 10 years for a state to have an increase of 50%. Bush's joke of a tax cut has really helped. Who? We all know who. I'm middle class making 48,000 per year and got an additional $4 on my check. Kerry's plan to take away the tax cut for those that make over 200,000 per year would help. They pay 82% of the income taxes. And isn't it funny that 7 of the top states for increases in food stamp cases are the ones that generally lean Republican. When will they learn.