CBS Kerry Aid connection

[Rascal]

This guy needs to go. Bush's aid had a possible (same thing here) connection with swiftvets and he removed himself. This guy has a possible connection with CBS regarding the fake documents so he needs to go. And apparently Burkett admittedly to misleading CBS.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132996,00.html

Kerry Aide Talked to Bush Guard Docs Figure
Tuesday, September 21, 2004

Joe Lockhart (search) said he got a call from CBS the Saturday before the Sept. 8 broadcast which launched the network into a firestorm of controversy.

The CBS representative alerted Lockhart that a man in Texas, Bill Burkett (search), was interested in helping the Kerry-Edwards campaign. Lockhart then called Burkett, a former Texas Army National Guard official who CBS says provided the doubtful documents.

Click here to read the CBS documents (pdf).

But Lockhart denied any connection between the Kerry campaign and the documents, saying there is "no basis" for the White House charges that the Kerry campaign had something to do with the memo entanglement.

Lockhart, the second Kerry adviser to confirm contact with Burkett, said he made the call at the suggestion of CBS producer Mary Mapes. Mapes told him there were some records "that might move the story forward," Lockhart said. "She didn't tell me what they said."


He added that it was common knowledge that CBS was working on a story raising questions about Bush's Guard service.

"All I know is that she [CBS producer] called and said 'this gentleman is interested in talking to you,'" Lockhart told FOX News on Tuesday. "Certainly, there was no discussion at all with Mr. Burkett about the National Guard documents ... "I think he was a little bit frustrated he was calling the campaign and I wasn't calling him back. He made some good points and that was the end of it."

"He had some political advice -- he thought we were being too passive on the whole swift boat controversy … I thanked him for the advice," Lockhart continued.

He earlier told FOX News that he only listened to Burkett — a longtime Bush critic — for a few minutes. Lockhart said Burkett made no mention of the documents, but instead said he had a lot of information that would help the Kerry campaign if it wanted to fight back against the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (search), the unregulated 527 group that sponsored ads challenging Kerry's Vietnam service.

Lockhart described Burkett as "very exercised" over the attacks on Kerry's military record and eager to help Kerry "push back" with information about Bush's Texas Air National Guard (search) service.

Lockhart, chief White House press secretary during Bill Clinton's second term, said he understood that CBS got the documents the Friday before the network producer called him, which would have been Sept. 3.

Burkett had told USA Today that he had agreed to turn over the documents to CBS if the network would arrange a conversation with the Kerry campaign.

But "he certainly didn't have an understanding with me and I didn't have an understanding with anybody else," Lockhart maintained.

WH: Tie Raises 'Serious Questions'

The White House called the exchange evidence of coordination between the Kerry campaign and Burkett.

"The fact that CBS News would coordinate with the most senior levels of Senator Kerry's campaign is a stunning and deeply troubling revelation that raises serious questions," said White House spokesman Dan Bartlett. "It's time for the Kerry campaign to come clean about their involvement in this growing scandal and for Senator Kerry to immediately hold accountable anyone in his campaign that was involved."

Lockhart denied any involvement.

"Bartlett is wrong," he said later Monday. "It's baseless to say the Kerry campaign had anything to do with this," he said earlier.

Rep. Roy Blunt, the House Democratic Whip, told FOX News on Tuesday that the Lockhart connection deserves more scrutiny.

"How can that be an objective position to be in?" he asked, noting that Ben Ginsberg (search) recently left his position as counsel to the Bush-Cheney campaign at the mere suggestion that there was a connection between the White House and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which he was informally advising. Ginsberg wasn't considered as high-level a strategist as Lockhart.

"I think Joe Lockhart's going to have to explain what he was doing, why he was doing it, why they had these multiple contacts between the campaign," Blunt said, especially since Burkett's allegations "clearly drove this story for days."

Burkett told USA Today that his interest in contacting the campaign had nothing to do with the documents.

"My interest was to get the attention of the national [campaign] to defend against the attacks," Burkett told the newspaper.

CBS News apologized Monday for a "mistake in judgment" in its story questioning Bush's Guard service, claiming it was misled by the source of documents that several experts have dismissed as fakes. The network said an independent panel would look at its reporting about the memos.

"This is an example of the kind of thing that the independent panel that will be named in a few days will look into. When that review is complete, we will comment," said CBS News spokesman Kelli Edwards.

Burkett: 'I Did Mislead You'

Burkett admitted this weekend to CBS that he lied about obtaining the documents from another former National Guard member, the network said. CBS hasn't been able to conclusively tell how he got them, or even whether they're fakes.

"Well, I didn't totally mislead you -- I did mislead you on the one individual," Burkett told Rather in an interview that aired Monday night, adding that he still believed the documents were real. "Your staff pressured me to a point to reveal that source ... and I simply threw out a name that was basically, I guess, to take a little pressure off for a moment."

Rather responded by saying the network was simply trying to uncover the "chain of possession."

Burkett told USA Today that the source of the documents is George Conn, a former Texas National Guard colleague who works for the U.S. Army in Europe. Burkett now says he made up the story about Conn's involvement to divert attention from himself and the woman he now says provided him with the documents.

Burkett now maintains that the source of the papers was Lucy Ramirez, who he says phoned him from Houston in March to offer the documents. He said Ramirez claimed to possess the "correspondence file" of Lt. Col Jerry Killian -- Bush's Guard supervisor who was alleged to have written the memps -- which would prove Burkett's allegations that Bush had problems as a Guard fighter pilot.

Kerry ally Max Cleland (search), a former Georgia senator, also said he had a brief conversation last month with Burkett, who told him he had information about Bush to counter charges against Kerry's Vietnam War service. Cleland said he gave Burkett's name and phone number to the campaign's research department.

Kerry spokesman David Ginsberg said nobody in the campaign's research department followed up on Burkett's offer of information.

As more experts came forward to question the authenticity of the documents over the past two weeks, CBS blamed the White House, saying Bartlett, its communication director, should have warned them the documents were fake.

"They came to me at the last minute and expected me to be the one to authenticate them," Bartlett told FOX News. "These are documents that came from a dead man's file, so I had to accept from a news organization that they were authentic."

Bartlett said Bush asked him to explain what happened when he was in the Guard, and that's what has been done for every campaign, because every time Bush is on the ballot, questions about his service surface.

"I was stunned when I started getting calls Friday and Saturday that I sealed the deal for them, that I made it credible to put the documents forward when really I had to call them on Tuesday evening [the night before the documents were aired] and they said they wouldn't give it to us until the next day," Bartlett added. "It is breathtaking to think that after all this, they are now pointing to my interview as saying that I'm the person authenticating the documents, when I was given them at the last minute."

Rather himself told WCBS-TV Monday afternoon that the entire ordeal left him feeling miserable.

[bendog]

who cares. We know swift vets was funded by JR's supporters. Are we supposed to be surprised/shocked that Kerry lies about Jr's records?

Meanwhile, Iraq continues and there are various domestic issues that the media is pulled away from. This favors BushII. So there are two conclusions: the media is not ALL that liberal and/or Kerry's really run a crappy campaign compared to BushII's that's played him like a cheap gong.

[Rascal]

I guess you don't care about the character of a would be president then based on your statement. That is sad, but for some reason expected.

Go ahead and spin it back to Bush, its what you guys do best.

Yes the media is liberal, CBS snafu helped, and yes Kerry is running a crappy campaign.

[bendog]

I think both candidates engage in dirty politics. And, I'm not shocked. I really don't know much about the character of either man. BushII did not do what he said he'd do when campaigning in 00. I won't vote for him because a. he misread and misled on Iraq; b. fiscally he's proven to be incompetent; c. kicking blacks of the rolls in Fla is just beyond the pale of dirty politics, imo. As a southerner, it's something I simply cannot abide.

Kerry? I really don't know. I can't see myself voting for a Dem from Mass who hasn't addressed affirm action.

But the vietnam stuff is just all bull****. All we really know is Kerry volunteered, possibly thinking it was safe and he'd be sorta like JFK, but he got wounded, and Bush got in the country club guard. I don't think any of that has much bearing today.

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by bendog

I think both candidates engage in dirty politics. And, I'm not shocked. I really don't know much about the character of either man. BushII did not do what he said he'd do when campaigning in 00. I won't vote for him because a. he misread and misled on Iraq; b. fiscally he's proven to be incompetent; c. kicking blacks of the rolls in Fla is just beyond the pale of dirty politics, imo. As a southerner, it's something I simply cannot abide.

Kerry? I really don't know. I can't see myself voting for a Dem from Mass who hasn't addressed affirm action.

But the vietnam stuff is just all bull****. All we really know is Kerry volunteered, possibly thinking it was safe and he'd be sorta like JFK, but he got wounded, and Bush got in the country club guard. I don't think any of that has much bearing today.

a. he misread and misled on Iraq
he did neither, wasn't his fault he had bad info, blame the CIA, FBI, British and Russian intelligence on that one

b. fiscally he's proven to be incompetent
amazing how many more expenses you have when a little thing like a war happens


c. kicking blacks of the rolls in Fla
this is total BS and is just left wing tripe and unproven accusations. I heard you kill small animals and then masterbate with their corpse.......I mean it's just what I've hears so it has to be true, right?

[Rascal]

I would say something but Shack summed it up.

[bendog]

a. BushII knew or should have know prior to invasion the Saddam had nothign to threaten the continental US, based on what Blix had found after he went to EVERY site we told him about. The invasion was about nation building, and it's going to ****.

b. BushII knwe or should have known prior to invasion, you have to pay for wars with taxes. It's called fiscal discipline.

c. Fla has had to sign a consent decree after the election, and they've been sued and folded again sinc.e

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by bendog

a. BushII knew or should have know prior to invasion the Saddam had nothign to threaten the continental US, based on what Blix had found after he went to EVERY site we told him about. The invasion was about nation building, and it's going to ****.

b. BushII knwe or should have known prior to invasion, you have to pay for wars with taxes. It's called fiscal discipline.

c. Fla has had to sign a consent decree after the election, and they've been sued and folded again sinc.e

point 1.....or forget it

hello wall, let me butt my head against it

pointless

[Rascal]

How could he possibly have known when every major intelligence agency in the world was telling him otherwise. hell even kerry voted to go to war. That argument is full of crap and worthless.

Yes he knew, but when he became president and all of his campaign promises went out the window after 9-11 when security became such an issue and required more money. Duh!!

Florida screwed up yes, and that is somehow Bush's fault? uh....NO!!

[bendog]

Everyone, including snowcroft, berger, gore and wjc said post 9-11, we had to have inspections or invade. None of those guys said invade AFTER Blix had access. The war had NOTHIGN to do with womd. BushII gambled on the new american century notion of building a beacon of democracy in the ME.

[TexanBob]

Originally Posted by rascal

I guess you don't care about the character of a would be president then based on your statement. That is sad, but for some reason expected.

Go ahead and spin it back to Bush, its what you guys do best.

Yes the media is liberal, CBS snafu helped, and yes Kerry is running a crappy campaign.

Rascal, after eight years of Bill Clinton, when Democrats said EXPRESSLY that character didn't matter, how can you expect them to think character matters now? After spending eight years defending a perjuring traitor sex offender from the law, even laws that he himself signed, defending Kerry is a picnic. He might be a boring, arrogant elitist billionaire twit but he's not the immoral sleazebag that Clinton was.

Kerry's running a crappy campaign because, even though he comes up with a new position on every issue twice a day, deep down I think he has a moral compass and Clinton doesn't. Kerry is willing to lie as much as Clinton but he's not able to lie as convincingly as Clinton and that's why his campaign is not selling, either to the left or the right.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

Rascal, after eight years of Bill Clinton, when Democrats said EXPRESSLY that character didn't matter, how can you expect them to think character matters now? After spending eight years defending a perjuring traitor sex offender from the law, even laws that he himself signed, defending Kerry is a picnic. He might be a boring, arrogant elitist billionaire twit but he's not the immoral sleazebag that Clinton was.

Kerry's running a crappy campaign because, even though he comes up with a new position on every issue twice a day, deep down I think he has a moral compass and Clinton doesn't. Kerry is willing to lie as much as Clinton but he's not able to lie as convincingly as Clinton and that's why his campaign is not selling, either to the left or the right.

Neither Clinton nor Kerry lies as convincingly... or as constantly... as Bush does...

[Mile High Shack]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Neither Clinton nor Kerry lies as convincingly... or as constantly... as Bush does...

stupid people aren't good liars

so which is it?

is Bush stupid or a good liar?

[patteeu]

"Clinton's an unusually good liar"- Senator Bob Kerry, Democrat, February 3, 1996, Esquire magazine interview.

                               Bush    Kerry
                              ------   ------
He is honest and trustworthy    51%      38%



ABC poll

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by Mile High Shack

stupid people aren't good liars

so which is it?

is Bush stupid or a good liar?

I've never really considered Bush "stupid", although it's not likely he'd ever be considered for membership in Mensa, either.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Blueflame

Neither Clinton nor Kerry lies as convincingly... or as constantly... as Bush does...

That is a load of horse **** Blue.

That is your opinion with no facts to back it up. At least Kerry or Bush didn't lie under oath. Kerry can't remember what he said two days on his present position so that can be the only excuse he has for not being called a liar.

And bush..well...he has lied on occasion or at least not told us everything but what President has.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by rascal

That is a load of horse **** Blue.

That is your opinion with no facts to back it up. At least Kerry or Bush didn't lie under oath. Kerry can't remember what he said two days on his present position so that can be the only excuse he has for not being called a liar.

And bush..well...he has lied on occasion or at least not told us everything but what President has.

It was not presented as anything but my personal opinion, Rascal... otherwise, a link would have been included.

I'm fairly confident that I could find many examples of Bush lies to present as support for that contention if I chose to expend the effort to research instances of mendacity, however, at this time, leaving the remark as a simple expression of personal perception suffices.

[Exile_In_SJ]

Well, Kerry seems to be headed for disappointment as regards the Mensa brigade. This guy is dumb as a stump. I haven't seen anything he's exhibited this whole cmpaign season that strikes me as particularily intelligent. He's going to lose badly.

New Jersey is now tied and Bush is 6-8 points behind in New York. Kerry is toast. He's a maroon.

[bendog]

Originally Posted by Exile_In_SJ

Well, Kerry seems to be headed for disappointment as regards the Mensa brigade. This guy is dumb as a stump. I haven't seen anything he's exhibited this whole cmpaign season that strikes me as particularily intelligent. He's going to lose badly.

New Jersey is now tied and Bush is 6-8 points behind in New York. Kerry is toast. He's a maroon.

yep. Supposedly Kerry is a fast closer, but so far he looks worse than Duckass.

[Exile_In_SJ]

One of the stupidest things Kerry did was the 'I voted for it before I voted gainst it' mistake.

No matter how much his supporters try and spin it, it was an incredibly stupid thing to say. What's funny is the more this clown opens his mouth, the more support Bush gets. What is even more funny is how anyone can actually think this guy would be a good president. The guy is as decisive as a mound of quivering jelly.

But we must not forget, he did serve in Viet Nam 30+ years ago. whoop-de-doo

[Exile_In_SJ]

well he barely beat Weld in a truly liberal state, so I would somewhat discount his fast closer reputation, especially in a national stage.

[bendog]

yeah, but Dean says really stupid stuff too. My guess was their best chance was the General, but he prolly would've melted down after Rove turned up the heat. My preference, since BushII was the only goper in the field, was Graham of Fla, but he never got off the ground

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by Exile_In_SJ

One of the stupidest things Kerry did was the 'I voted for it before I voted gainst it' mistake.

No matter how much his supporters try and spin it, it was an incredibly stupid thing to say. What's funny is the more this clown opens his mouth, the more support Bush gets. What is even more funny is how anyone can actually think this guy would be a good president. The guy is as decisive as a mound of quivering jelly.

But we must not forget, he did serve in Viet Nam 30+ years ago. whoop-de-doo

I suppose it won't make any difference to remind you that Kerry "quote" was taken wildly out of context.

And if saying stupid things automatically resulted in more support for any given candidate's opponent, Gore would have defeated Bush in a landslide in 2000.

[Mile High Shack]

I still can't figure out what all the Bush haters are gonna do come Friday in November

[bendog]

Send my kid to school, save my taxcuts for her to pay taxes and hope it all works out in Iraq, and hope Mrs Dog gets a job. Pretty much the same thing as if Kerry got elected.