The U.S. is Backing the Baby Killers? - The Orange Mane

Rohirrim · 09-07-2004, 07:21 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....us/index.html

Somebody clear this up for me. We know for a fact that the Chechnya baby killers are linked with Al Queda, and yet the U.S. government has given amnesty to the Chechnyan seperatist "foreign minister?" Is this just some "Cold War" hangover, or what? Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-07-2004, 07:25 AM

Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs?

Hint:

A three letter word that starts with 'O' and ends with 'L'

Where Smirk & Sneer's foreign policy is concerned, is it ever anything else?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-07-2004, 07:31 AM

Chechnya and Azerbaijan are hotbeds of both armed conflict and oil exploration...

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ney-drugs.html

http://www.finalcall.com/perspective...03-19-2002.htm

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Chechnya.asp

Taco John · 09-07-2004, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs?

Hint:

A three letter word that starts with 'O' and ends with 'L'

Where Smirk & Sneer's foreign policy is concerned, is it ever anything else?

What do you have against Owls?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-07-2004, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

What do you have against Owls?

Heh heh heh.

Absolutely nuttin'.

Bronco_Beerslug · 09-07-2004, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....us/index.html

Somebody clear this up for me. We know for a fact that the Chechnya baby killers are linked with Al Queda, and yet the U.S. government has given amnesty to the Chechnyan seperatist "foreign minister?" Is this just some "Cold War" hangover, or what? Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs?

I don't understand this either. Why would we do this?

enjolras · 09-07-2004, 07:57 AM

I'd REALLY like to see some substantation or SOMETHING on this. Surely there is no possible way that we're even talking to those terrorists. I just can't even begin to beleive it..

patteeu · 09-07-2004, 08:18 AM

I don't understand it either. IMO, we should take advantage of the fact that we have a common enemy (militant islamists) to strenthen our relationship with Russia. We should have done the same thing in the Kosovo and Bosnia conflicts where we also ended up on the same side as Al Qaeda. I don't really get it.

watermock · 09-08-2004, 12:28 AM

What you don't even have a clue about is your calling the Republican Party "baby killers" when there are millions of ABORTIONS.

I'm not on this issue per se, but listen you dimwits, go play with that one.

Abortion is estimated at 1.3 million in 2003.

so whatever. go play with stats.

Blueflame · 09-08-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock

What you don't even have a clue about is your calling the Republican Party "baby killers" when there are millions of ABORTIONS.

I'm not on this issue per se, but listen you dimwits, go play with that one.

Abortion is estimated at 1.3 million in 2003.

so whatever. go play with stats.

... and the Supreme Court panel that decided Roe vs. Wade was comprised of six Republican appointees and three Democratic appointees. Not only that, but Republican appointees have had a huge majority on the high court ever since that time as well. If eliminating (legal) abortions was truly a Republican priority, their appointees could have reversed that decision at any time.

Rohirrim · 09-08-2004, 10:03 AM

Mock, I don't have a clue where you came up with that total mis-reading of the thread. The "baby killers" I'm referring to are the Chechen separatists and what I want to know is, why is the U.S. on their side, rather than on the Russian's side?

Blueflame · 09-08-2004, 10:11 AM

I apologize for my reply to Mock, which furthered the hijack of the thread, Ro. My bad.

I thought any government or entity with links to Al Qaeda was automatically going to be perceived as an enemy? Isn't that what the Bush administration told the Taliban?

Rohirrim · 09-08-2004, 10:17 AM

For some reason, the U.S. State Dept. has given the Chechen "foreign minister" aslyum in this country and we are in contact with these baby killers. I can't find out where the hell this policy is coming from. I just consider the Russians kind of a natural ally, as they have been on and off throughout our history. Why would our state dept. choose Al Queda allies over the Russians? I was hoping somebody on this board could come up with something on this.

Blueflame · 09-08-2004, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

For some reason, the U.S. State Dept. has given the Chechen "foreign minister" aslyum in this country and we are in contact with these baby killers. I can't find out where the hell this policy is coming from. I just consider the Russians kind of a natural ally, as they have been on and off throughout our history. Why would our state dept. choose Al Queda allies over the Russians? I was hoping somebody on this board could come up with something on this.

Some of the Bush administration's foreign policies defy logical explanation, Ro... and others may have a logical explanation that is "classified"...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-08-2004, 04:42 PM

Mock, I don't have a clue where you came up with that total mis-reading of the thread.

"Mis-reading" = "bidness as usual" for 'crock.

As for "clues"--how 'bout asking his bartender?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 09-08-2004, 11:09 PM

Do you suppose OIL is involved?

Published on Wednesday, September 8, 2004 by the Guardian/UK

The Chechens' American Friends

The Washington neocons' commitment to the war on terror evaporates in Chechnya, whose cause they have made their own

An enormous head of steam has built up behind the view that President Putin is somehow the main culprit in the grisly events in North Ossetia. Soundbites and headlines such as "Grief turns to anger", "Harsh words for government", and "Criticism mounting against Putin" have abounded,...

On closer inspection, it turns out that this so-called "mounting criticism" is in fact being driven by a specific group in the Russian political spectrum - and by its American supporters. ... Funded by its New York head office, this influential thinktank .... The centre has also been assiduous over recent months in arguing against Moscow's claims that there is a link between the Chechens and al-Qaida.

They include Richard Perle ... Kenneth Adelman ... Midge Decter ... Frank Gaffney ... Bruce Jackson ... Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute ... R James Woolsey ...

*John Laughland is a trustee of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group www.oscewatch.org*

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0908-01.htm

ClevelandBronco · 09-09-2004, 02:29 AM

L.A.:

I think you're being disingenuous when you don't distinguish between the Chechan government in exile and the islamofascists who recently slaughtered the innocent population of that small south Russian city.

There have certainly been collateral casualties — and even horrible attrocities — inflicted by Russian forces and Chechan rebels alike over the years, but this kind of terror goes beyond any civilized struggle for independence.

I think you would do better to educate yourself on the historical background of what might indeed be a legitimate movement were it not for the difficult fact that the overwhelming population of Chechnya wants to remain a part of the Russian Federation.

Rohirrim · 09-09-2004, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

L.A.:

I think you're being disingenuous when you don't distinguish between the Chechan government in exile and the islamofascists who recently slaughtered the innocent population of that small south Russian city.

There have certainly been collateral casualties — and even horrible attrocities — inflicted by Russian forces and Chechan rebels alike over the years, but this kind of terror goes beyond any civilized struggle for independence.

I think you would do better to educate yourself on the historical background of what might indeed be a legitimate movement were it not for the difficult fact that the overwhelming population of Chechnya wants to remain a part of the Russian Federation.

"The difficult fact...?" That's democracy, my friend. The majority of Chechens want to remain part of Russia. If the U.S. is backing an insurgency of terrorists who are a minority of the population, then we are no better than the Saudi slimeballs smiling in our faces while they send money to OBL. Anyway, once you start killing babies the politics are over. You become nothing but a rabid dog that must be put down. You don't deserve dialogue of any kind. I hope the Russians go in and obliterate these slime. And any American politician found supporting these baby killers should be driven from office in disgrace and thrown in prison to rot.

patteeu · 09-09-2004, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

"The difficult fact...?" That's democracy, my friend. The majority of Chechens want to remain part of Russia. If the U.S. is backing an insurgency of terrorists who are a minority of the population, then we are no better than the Saudi slimeballs smiling in our faces while they send money to OBL. Anyway, once you start killing babies the politics are over. You become nothing but a rabid dog that must be put down. You don't deserve dialogue of any kind. I hope the Russians go in and obliterate these slime. And any American politician found supporting these baby killers should be driven from office in disgrace and thrown in prison to rot.

I don't think you understood ClevelandBronco's point.

Rohirrim · 09-09-2004, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

I don't think you understood ClevelandBronco's point.

How so?

patteeu · 09-09-2004, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

How so?

Well, the way I read it (and I may be wrong) is that he is saying the seperatist cause could be mistaken for a legitimate independence movement if not for the fact that the majority of Chechnyans don't want independence. If I'm reading him right, it looks like the two of you agree on that point.

Now that I go back and reread his post, I'm less certain about his intent. Maybe he will stop by and clear it up.

ClevelandBronco · 09-09-2004, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

Well, the way I read it (and I may be wrong) is that he is saying the seperatist cause could be mistaken for a legitimate independence movement if not for the fact that the majority of Chechnyans don't want independence. If I'm reading him right, it looks like the two of you agree on that point.

Now that I go back and reread his post, I'm less certain about his intent. Maybe he will stop by and clear it up.

Your initial reading was correct, patteeu. The "difficult fact" was meant to be an irony. I mean to say that even when it takes on a more diplomatic face the separatist movement is less legitimate than it first appears since the majority of Chechans do not wish to separate at all.

Rohirrim · 09-09-2004, 11:28 AM

We need a little "I'm being sarcastic" smilie.

bendog · 09-09-2004, 11:39 AM

I'm curious how one tells what a maj of chechneyans prefer. I realize they had elections, and it's quite possible that the maj does want to remain part of russia. I'm curious as to why ... given stalin. I really don't know of any basic sources.

However, as I understand the DOS position, it is partly based on the fact that Russia refuses to allow the oil dollars to go to chechneya. I don't know whether we envision some "national referendum" for chechneyans, on who rules them and who gets the dollars, or what. Russia has invaded them twice since the end of the cold war, and are forcing refugees out of camps and back into chenchneya where their homes have been bombed. Seems like a cycle of violence like the ME.

09-07-2004, 07:21 AM	#1
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,830	The U.S. is Backing the Baby Killers? http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe....us/index.html Somebody clear this up for me. We know for a fact that the Chechnya baby killers are linked with Al Queda, and yet the U.S. government has given amnesty to the Chechnyan seperatist "foreign minister?" Is this just some "Cold War" hangover, or what? Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs?

09-08-2004, 12:28 AM	#9
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	What you don't even have a clue about is your calling the Republican Party "baby killers" when there are millions of ABORTIONS. I'm not on this issue per se, but listen you dimwits, go play with that one. Abortion is estimated at 1.3 million in 2003. so whatever. go play with stats. Last edited by watermock; 09-08-2004 at 12:31 AM..

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09-07-2004, 07:25 AM	#2
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Who made this policy? Why on earth would the U.S. be supporting these pigs? Hint: A three letter word that starts with 'O' and ends with 'L' Where Smirk & Sneer's foreign policy is concerned, is it ever anything else?

09-07-2004, 07:31 AM	#3
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Chechnya and Azerbaijan are hotbeds of both armed conflict and oil exploration... http://www.fromthewilderness.com/fre...ney-drugs.html http://www.finalcall.com/perspective...03-19-2002.htm http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Chechnya.asp

09-07-2004, 07:57 AM	#7
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,940	I'd REALLY like to see some substantation or SOMETHING on this. Surely there is no possible way that we're even talking to those terrorists. I just can't even begin to beleive it..

09-07-2004, 08:18 AM	#8
patteeu KC Chiefs Missionary Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,794	I don't understand it either. IMO, we should take advantage of the fact that we have a common enemy (militant islamists) to strenthen our relationship with Russia. We should have done the same thing in the Kosovo and Bosnia conflicts where we also ended up on the same side as Al Qaeda. I don't really get it.

09-08-2004, 10:03 AM	#11
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,830	Mock, I don't have a clue where you came up with that total mis-reading of the thread. The "baby killers" I'm referring to are the Chechen separatists and what I want to know is, why is the U.S. on their side, rather than on the Russian's side?

09-08-2004, 10:11 AM	#12
Blueflame Miss Congeniality Welcome to Peyton's Place Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in my cups... lol Posts: 33,037 Adopt-a-Bronco: Randy Gradishar	I apologize for my reply to Mock, which furthered the hijack of the thread, Ro. My bad. I thought any government or entity with links to Al Qaeda was automatically going to be perceived as an enemy? Isn't that what the Bush administration told the Taliban?

09-08-2004, 10:17 AM	#13
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,830	For some reason, the U.S. State Dept. has given the Chechen "foreign minister" aslyum in this country and we are in contact with these baby killers. I can't find out where the hell this policy is coming from. I just consider the Russians kind of a natural ally, as they have been on and off throughout our history. Why would our state dept. choose Al Queda allies over the Russians? I was hoping somebody on this board could come up with something on this.

09-08-2004, 04:42 PM	#15
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Mock, I don't have a clue where you came up with that total mis-reading of the thread. "Mis-reading" = "bidness as usual" for 'crock. As for "clues"--how 'bout asking his bartender?

09-08-2004, 11:09 PM	#16
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	Do you suppose OIL is involved? Published on Wednesday, September 8, 2004 by the Guardian/UK The Chechens' American Friends The Washington neocons' commitment to the war on terror evaporates in Chechnya, whose cause they have made their own An enormous head of steam has built up behind the view that President Putin is somehow the main culprit in the grisly events in North Ossetia. Soundbites and headlines such as "Grief turns to anger", "Harsh words for government", and "Criticism mounting against Putin" have abounded,... On closer inspection, it turns out that this so-called "mounting criticism" is in fact being driven by a specific group in the Russian political spectrum - and by its American supporters. ... Funded by its New York head office, this influential thinktank .... The centre has also been assiduous over recent months in arguing against Moscow's claims that there is a link between the Chechens and al-Qaida. They include Richard Perle ... Kenneth Adelman ... Midge Decter ... Frank Gaffney ... Bruce Jackson ... Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute ... R James Woolsey ... John Laughland is a trustee of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group www.oscewatch.org http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0908-01.htm

09-09-2004, 02:29 AM	#17
ClevelandBronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Freedonia Posts: 1,643	L.A.: I think you're being disingenuous when you don't distinguish between the Chechan government in exile and the islamofascists who recently slaughtered the innocent population of that small south Russian city. There have certainly been collateral casualties — and even horrible attrocities — inflicted by Russian forces and Chechan rebels alike over the years, but this kind of terror goes beyond any civilized struggle for independence. I think you would do better to educate yourself on the historical background of what might indeed be a legitimate movement were it not for the difficult fact that the overwhelming population of Chechnya wants to remain a part of the Russian Federation.

09-09-2004, 11:28 AM	#23
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,830	We need a little "I'm being sarcastic" smilie.

09-09-2004, 11:39 AM	#24
bendog Marginally Continent David Bowens, he'd be an upgrade Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Folsom Prison Posts: 19,935 Adopt-a-Bronco: David Bowens	I'm curious how one tells what a maj of chechneyans prefer. I realize they had elections, and it's quite possible that the maj does want to remain part of russia. I'm curious as to why ... given stalin. I really don't know of any basic sources. However, as I understand the DOS position, it is partly based on the fact that Russia refuses to allow the oil dollars to go to chechneya. I don't know whether we envision some "national referendum" for chechneyans, on who rules them and who gets the dollars, or what. Russia has invaded them twice since the end of the cold war, and are forcing refugees out of camps and back into chenchneya where their homes have been bombed. Seems like a cycle of violence like the ME.