Bush defends tax cuts for the rich

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bush criticized Kerry's plan to eliminate the tax cuts for those making more than $200,000 a year, saying that the "the rich in America happen to be the small business owners" who put people to work.*

Bush also said high taxes on the rich are a failed strategy because "the really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local...lines-virginia

Help! Our president is a retard!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

..."the rich in America happen to be the small business owners"

Wrong again, Smirk.

The IRS reports that some 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year and haven't felt your tax cuts for the already-filthy-rich.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I can understand why Chimp's cronies support the BFEE who manipulate the government to line their pockets, but why the hell does Joe Red-State support their looting of the country?

[Raider Bill]

Ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? The most popular vehicle of millionaires the survey found is the Ford F150. That is because typically a millionaire in this country is some sort of Contractor/Builder. These are small business owners not the idle rich as you like to paint them.

With the passage of President Bush's two tax cuts, ten million more Americans no longer pay income taxes. The Senate voted to extend the $400-per-child tax credits to minimum-wage families, most of whom are currently not paying income taxes. What this does is give people a credit or rebate for something they have not paid into in the first place.

The tax burden of the entire country is being shifted more and more to fewer and fewer Americans. As it stands now, the top 5% of wage-earners in this country pay 50% of all income taxes collected. The bottom 50% of wage-earners pay only 5% of income taxes collected

http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8
President Bush’s most recent tax cut proves that tax rates were, in fact, too high. This is demonstrated through the simple fact that the first half of fiscal year 2004 is showing higher tax revenues than the same period for fiscal year 2003. Between October 2003 and March 2004 (the first half of FY 2004), tax receipts were at more than $850 billion, which is $25.3 billion higher than receipts for the year-ago period.

This means that federal tax receipts went up rather than down after the Bush tax cuts of 2003. America has just passed the midpoint of fiscal 2003 and so far the data seems to be confirming the supply-side model. The Bush boom is big enough that it has already affected the budget.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? The most popular vehicle of millionaires the survey found is the Ford F150. That is because typically a millionaire in this country is some sort of Contractor/Builder. These are small business owners not the idle rich as you like to paint them.

This is an outright lie.

According to the IRS, some 87% of small business owners make less than $200,000 per year.

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? The most popular vehicle of millionaires the survey found is the Ford F150. That is because typically a millionaire in this country is some sort of Contractor/Builder. These are small business owners not the idle rich as you like to paint them.

This is an outright lie.

According to the IRS, some 87% of small business owners make less than $200,000 per year.

Try to keep up son.

The other 13% make more Einstein. How did I lie? I said a millionaire in this country is likely to be a small business owner. Not the idle rich croisant muncher like your boy Kerry.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

How did I lie? I said a millionaire in this country is likely to be a small business owner.

The lie here is in the word "likely."

"Likely" does not = 13%

Since 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year, the likelihood of meeting a millionaire small business owner is much more remote than meeting a member of the 87% group.

Most people in this country who make $200K or more are working for big corporations.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Not the idle rich croisant muncher like your boy Kerry.

I always have to chuckle at those wingnuts who suggest Kerry can't relate to ordinary Americans because of his personal wealth.

As if Bush and Cheney qualify as middle-income, blue collar, working-class Americans.

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Not the idle rich croisant muncher like your boy Kerry.

I always have to chuckle at those wingnuts who suggest Kerry can't relate to ordinary Americans because of his personal wealth.

As if Bush and Cheney qualify as middle-income, blue collar, working-class Americans.

Compared to all that Heinz money (The late Senator John Heinz must be friggin rolling over in his grave) Bush Cheney are working class schlubs.

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

How did I lie? I said a millionaire in this country is likely to be a small business owner.

The lie here is in the word "likely."

"Likely" does not = 13%

Since 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year, the likelihood of meeting a millionaire small business owner is much more remote than meeting a member of the 87% group.

Most people in this country who make $200K or more are working for big corporations.

Try to keep up. You have it backwards. The way I phrased it is a millionaire is likely to be a small business owner. e.g If you meet a guy that has a million bucks net worth more often than not you will find he is a small business owner. You have it the other way around.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Compared to all that Heinz money (The late Senator John Heinz must be friggin rolling over in his grave) Bush Cheney are working class schlubs.

Since you don't know how much Teresa Heinz-Kerry is worth, this is merely another unsubstantiated claim. And surely you don't think former Halliburton CEO Cheney could be perceived as a "working class schlub" by any ordinary American's standards? (Which is really the point here.)

Try to keep up. You have it backwards. The way I phrased it is a millionaire is likely to be a small business owner. e.g If you meet a guy that has a million bucks net worth more often than not you will find he is a small business owner. You have it the other way around.

You are the one who is lagging behind the curve here.

You claimed, in essence, that anytime I meet a small business owner, the odds favor the likelihood that he is a millionaire.

Since 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year, this is obviously a false statement.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Compared to all that Heinz money (The late Senator John Heinz must be friggin rolling over in his grave) Bush Cheney are working class schlubs.

Since you don't know how much Teresa Heinz-Kerry is worth, this is merely another unsubstantiated claim. And surely you don't think former Halliburton CEO Cheney could be perceived as a "working class schlub" by any ordinary American's standards? (Which is really the point here.)

Try to keep up. You have it backwards. The way I phrased it is a millionaire is likely to be a small business owner. e.g If you meet a guy that has a million bucks net worth more often than not you will find he is a small business owner. You have it the other way around.

You are the one who is lagging behind the curve here.

You claimed, in essence, that anytime I meet a small business owner, the odds favor the likelihood that he is a millionaire.

Since 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year, this is obviously a false statement.

Are you this friggin Dense. I stated that a typical millionaire is a small business owner. Not the other way around.


Here is my original post:

Originally Posted by njbil

Ever read "The Millionaire Next Door"? The most popular vehicle of millionaires the survey found is the Ford F150. That is because typically a millionaire in this country is some sort of Contractor/Builder. These are small business owners not the idle rich as you like to paint them

Regarding Theresa Heinz Kerry's net worth,

Since key details of Heinz Kerry's investments are not in the public record, a precise valuation is not possible. The Los Angeles Times' analysis produced estimates as low as $900 million and as high as $3.2 billion. Three senior executives at investment companies that handle accounts for wealthy clients reviewed the Times' study and said the $1 billion valuation was a fair and conservative estimate.


Bush/Cheney aren't even close. Mr and Mrs Heinz own 6 homes valued at 30 million dollars including one in France and a 35 million dollar Gulfstream jet to get them there. Throw in a fleet of cars and some gas money and you have a hundred million right there.

Again .. Get a clue.

[Raider Bill]

Here's how the Candidates net worth breaks down

Kerry - estimated 1 billion
Edwards - 60 million
Cheney - 50 million
Bush - 15 million

So yea I would say that Bush Cheney are working class schlubs when Kerry's net worth dwarfs theirs by a factor of 20 or so.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Are you this friggin Dense. I stated that a typical millionaire is a small business owner. Not the other way around.

Are you really so thick as to not grasp the contradiction here?

That is, if only 13% of small business owners are millionaires, then how could this group be construed as "typical" as a percentage of the total number of millionaires in America?

Bush/Cheney aren't even close.

You still haven't backed this contention with facts. Your own LA Times quote starts by saying "Since key details of Heinz Kerry's investments are not in the public record, a precise valuation is not possible." And you provided no facts to substantiate either Bush or Cheney's net worth.

But, IMO, the real point is this:

No matter what the difference in Bush/Cheney and Heinz-Kerry's net worth, your insinuation that the same criticisms you're leveling at Kerry and his wife don't apply to Bush and Cheney is ludicrous. Even if Bush and Cheney are worth less than Kerry and his wife, it still doesn't follow that this difference in net worth is meaningful enough for them to be perceived as being in touch with ordinary, working Americans.

[Exile_In_SJ]

njbil, you may as well talk to a brick wall as talk to LABartcop. he's unable to understand any concept higher than, bush is bad (attach goofy gif from bartcop here)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

you may as well talk to a brick wall as talk to LABartcop. he's unable to understand any concept higher than, bush is bad (attach goofy gif from bartcop here)

Says the same right-wing tool who starts a dozen new threads full of cut and paste from Smear Boat Goons for Bush per day?

LMFAO!

That's a thigh-slapper.

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Are you this friggin Dense. I stated that a typical millionaire is a small business owner. Not the other way around.

Are you really so thick as to not grasp the contradiction here?

That is, if only 13% of small business owners are millionaires, then how could this group be construed as "typical" as a percentage of the total number of millionaires in America?

You are the one who is confused. We are talking about 2 distinct groups. Millionaires and Small business owners. If 13% of small business owners are millionaires it still could be theoreticly possible that 100% of millionaires are small business owners. To use a grade school math expression, Millionaires are a subset of small business owners not the other way around.





The book I spoke of did a survey of Millionaires in this country and found that the most common vehicle was the Ford F150, because the typical millionaire is some sort of contractor. They didnt survey small business owners and find that the typical one was a millionaire which is what you're arguing I said.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Bush/Cheney aren't even close.

You still haven't backed this contention with facts. Your own LA Times quote starts by saying "Since key details of Heinz Kerry's investments are not in the public record, a precise valuation is not possible." And you provided no facts to substantiate either Bush or Cheney's net worth.

Their homes and jet alone dwarf Bush/Cheney. Put it this way if Cheney leveraged his entire net worth and invested it at 10% it would take him over 140 years to approach the Heinz fortune.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

But, IMO, the real point is this:

No matter what the difference in Bush/Cheney and Heinz-Kerry's net worth, your insinuation that the same criticisms you're leveling at Kerry and his wife don't apply to Bush and Cheney is ludicrous. Even if Bush and Cheney are worth less than Kerry and his wife, it still doesn't follow that this difference in net worth is meaningful enough for them to be perceived as being in touch with ordinary, working Americans.


[img]

Hey in politics perception is everything. Bush jetting down to his ranch to kick back, wear jeans, and fix the fence on the back 40 seems more "in touch" than winging off to France to hit the slopes or whatever. It may be a lot of carefully crafted nonsense, but Bush does come off as more of a "regular guy" than Kerry.

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Bush criticized Kerry's plan to eliminate the tax cuts for those making more than $200,000 a year, saying that the "the rich in America happen to be the small business owners" who put people to work.*

Bush also said high taxes on the rich are a failed strategy because "the really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway."

Pray tell, LANutcase.....

How many poor people hire people?

You think that taxing the hell out of the rich will make things better? your nuts! Remove the obstacles that government places in the way of people achieving and you'll see more people reach financial independence.

Rich people are usuaully smart people...and smart people will find ways to hide their money if you keep demanding they foot the bill for everyone else.

All you are is just another liberal who wants to punish people for achieving financial independence thru hard work.

[errand]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Since 87% of small business owners make less than $200K per year, this is obviously a false statement.

Yes, they may EARN less than $200,000 annually....but that is no indication of what they're WORTH. Some people make smart decisions with their lives and their money.

I know a guy who works as a salesman in the lumber dept of a Home Depot who thru the employee stock purchase plan was had shares worth approximately $450,000 in '98.....and no doubt they are worth more. He earned less than $40,000 a year and lived in a former VA foreclosure home and had driven the same '82 Camaro until it broke down completely and he was "forced" (his words exactly) to buy a new car. Was he a millionaire in '98? No...but I'd be willing to bet he's damn close today. Why? Because he made smart decisions with his money and had the discipline to make his plan work to achieve his financial goals.

Your typical millionaire is a former small business owner, has no more than 3 credit cards (one major, one gas, and one dept. store), has never paid more than $300 for suit or more than $100 for his watch...they more than likely drive an American made car like a Lincoln or a Buick, Cadillac, etc...and have lived in the same middle class home for approximately 30 years.

They never tell their kids or other relatives how much they are worth, and they always require that friends and family members pay them interest on personal loans they give.

I'm not a millionaire (yet)...but I'm confident that by the time I reach my mid-50's I'll be damn close. Because like the guy I told you about, I too have the discipline to make my plan for financial independence work

[Rohirrim]

In Eisenhower's day, the very wealthy paid 91% in taxes. CEOs averaged an income 34% more than their average worker. One wage earner could raise a family, buy a house, raise children and send them to college. Mom could stay home, provide care for her children, and help the kids with homework.

In the 80s, Reagan ushered in the era of globalization - the new economic religion - replacing Keynesianism. Corporations became free floating, free agents, loosed from the ties of country. Corporate gigantism began. De-regulation began. The social bonds of corporate America were cut. They no longer owed any allegiance to the local community of workers (Flint, Michigan, for instance). Junk bonds, penny stocks, buying up the competition, the "Greed is good" era. Taxes plummeted for the rich. Offshore shelters became the norm. Outsourcing and corporate "slimming" started. Corporate taxes dropped to the point that now, 67% of corporations are able to bypass taxes completely. Two incomes were "required" to raise a family. College started moving out of reach. Homes moved out of reach for the average worker. CEO salaries now average 1000% more than their average worker. For those wealthy individuals who actually pay taxes (remember the offshore shelters) the percentage hangs around 30%.

The playing field has shifted, all right.

[errand]

Originally Posted by njbil

Hey in politics perception is everything. Bush jetting down to his ranch to kick back, wear jeans, and fix the fence on the back 40 seems more "in touch" than winging off to France to hit the slopes or whatever. It may be a lot of carefully crafted nonsense, but Bush does come off as more of a "regular guy" than Kerry.

...ever see the difference between Bush throwing out the first pitch at a St. Louis game and Kerry doing the same in Boston? Well, to put it in perspective for you, Bush proved that in his younger days he could've probably snuck a pork chop past a wolf, where as Kerry proved that he was more than likely the last guy picked and threw like a girl.

that alone makes Bush closer to the average guy than Kerry.

[Rohirrim]

*(appropriations bill for Iraq war that would supply our troops with any & everything they needed to fight the war successfully, including but not limited to the body armor John kerry has been crying about)

I'll bet you've never asked yourself why that bill was even necessary in the first place. Why didn't they have that body armor (and armored vehicles) going in?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are the one who is confused. We are talking about 2 distinct groups. Millionaires and Small business owners. If 13% of small business owners are millionaires it still could be theoreticly possible that 100% of millionaires are small business owners.

But we already know that 100% of millionaires are not small business owners, so your point is moot.

To use a grade school math expression, Millionaires are a subset of small business owners not the other way around.

You've got it bass-ackwards again. You are essentially saying that all small business owners are millionaires. A 'subset' is a class contained by another class, and you're saying the class of millionaires is contained within the class of small business owners--which is false.

The book I spoke of did a survey of Millionaires in this country and found that the most common vehicle was the Ford F150

But this sort of "survey" only takes into account the sample group used in its "study". Thus, its findings aren't as meaningful as census statistics, IRS data, etc.

Their homes and jet alone dwarf Bush/Cheney. Put it this way if Cheney leveraged his entire net worth and invested it at 10% it would take him over 140 years to approach the Heinz fortune.

Pure conjecture on your part, since you haven't provided any documentation of either Bush or Cheney's net worth, and you admitted that Heinz-Kerry's actual net worth was unknown.

And you really haven't addressed my main point, i.e, that, even if Bush and Cheney are worth less than Heinz-Kerry, they are both still rich enough to warrant the same criticism your side levels at Kerry, i.e. that they can't possibly releate to average working Americans.

Hey in politics perception is everything. Bush jetting down to his ranch to kick back, wear jeans, and fix the fence on the back 40 seems more "in touch" than winging off to France to hit the slopes or whatever. It may be a lot of carefully crafted nonsense, but Bush does come off as more of a "regular guy" than Kerry.

You're right--there are far too many people out there whose voting behavior is dictated by this sort of superficial, meaningless stuff. But I don't know if the Kennebunkport Cowboy is going to be able to depend on them this time around.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Pray tell, LANutcase.....

You support the guy responsible for the quote at the top of this thread and you're calling me a "nutcase?"

LMFAO!

That's rich.

How many poor people hire people?

The real question is: How many big corporations have doubled and tripled their profits under BushCo, received huge tax cuts, and have still laid off workers, outsourced all of their jobs, and not hired a soul?

It doesn't take an economic genius to realize that when you give rich people a tax cut, they are going to put the money in the bank, whereas, when you give regular working people a tax cut, they are going to spend the money and thus stimulate the economy.

You think that taxing the hell out of the rich will make things better? your nuts!

Do you think taxing the hell out of the poor, working, and middle classes while giving huge tax cuts to big corporations and the wealthiest Americans is going to make things better? Then you're living where Tinker Bell lives.

Reality check:

Trickle down was a disaster for the country before, and, as the past four years have demonstrated, nothing has changed.