Veterans defend Kerry, criticize Dole

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Stealing and tearing down yardsigns from people's yards by their opponent's supporters happens at single level of politics by both parties.

Show me examples (preferably w/ links) of Kerry/Edwards supporters vandalizing Bush/FYourself signs.

That's what I thought.

Yes the old internet claim to show a link or it's obviously not true. Man you nailed me there. Sorry if I just go from personal experiences where I've been both the one tearing Dem signs down and putting back up Repub signs that Dems have torn down. This includes putting back up Owens' signs in '02, a CO State Senate race this year, and Bush '04 signs.

You're simply naive or choose to be willfully ignorant if you believe that there is only one side doing this. When supporters go to put theirs up at night, they usually take down their opponent's if they happen to be in the same intersection or proximity in a neighborhood. Like I said, this is nothing new in politics and in all actualality those people are stupid for stealing the signs since it is a misdemeanor. It's simply easier to lay them on the ground since it's not a crime, but no one can see it if they drive by.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yes the old internet claim to show a link or it's obviously not true.

I just asked you to provide any documentation that would show that Kerry supporters have been vandalizing BushCo signs.

Accounts of rethugs engaging in these types of behaviors have been all over the news lately, yet you are unable to point to similar accounts of Kerry supporters engaging in vandalism?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Another vet who served with Kerry supports him

"As a swift boat veteran who served with John Kerry in the rivers of Vietnam, I find the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to be anything but truthful.

If you want to know the real truth about this group, follow the money. The group is financed and directed by the same people who used dirty tricks to defeat Sen. John McCain in 2000.

I know from firsthand experience that Kerry is a courageous and honorable man. When you are in firefights in the Mekong Delta, you need to have complete confidence in the person guarding your back. I said it in 1969, and I'll say it again today: There is no one that I would rather have guarding my back in a war zone than John Kerry."

--Richard J. McCann

Chagrin Falls

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/pla...7082303690.xml

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Drunken Stateside Sons of Privilege for Plausible Deniability...

...question Bush's record.

Atrios reports on the Daily Show:

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

"A new group has emerged, this one composed of former Bush colleages, challenging the president's activities during the Vietnam era. That group: Drunken Stateside Sons of Privilege for Plausible Deniability.

They've apparently got some things to say about a certain Halloween party in '71 that involved trashcan punch and a sodomized piñata.

Jon -- they just want to set the record straight.

That's all they're out for.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Swift Boat round-up

There are a few more good links about the Swift Boat Veterans Whose Mothers Are Probably Wondering Who Taught Their Children to Spread Such Filth:

*Atrios has been all over this issue, and brings us a great exchange on the Daily Show that sums up a lot of the media reaction to this "controversy."

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_2...35851226026749

*The Dallas Morning News reports that the Swift Boat Vets' primary source of funds, Bob Perry, is listed as the co-host of a GOP fundraiser in New York during Republican Convention.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ser.5ae2b.html

*The LA Times puts it succinctly in this editorial: These charges are false.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,3137952.story

[MLB]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Stealing and tearing down yardsigns from people's yards by their opponent's supporters happens at single level of politics by both parties.

Show me examples (preferably w/ links) of Kerry/Edwards supporters vandalizing Bush/FYourself signs.

That's what I thought.

Here ya go:

http://www.telluridegateway.com/arti.../opinion01.txt

Regressive behavior

Dear Editor,

My wife and I and our three daughters, natives of Colorado, were in Telluride recently to attend a wedding. Although I have lived in Colorado for 30 years, this was my first trip to Telluride - the surrounding mountains and setting is breathtaking. We enjoyed very much hiking, biking and shopping in town and in Mountain Village.

I wanted to send a quick note to the people of Telluride to express my discontent with a recent visit to your fine city the weekend of Aug. 13.

I believe I speak for all of the out-of-town wedding guests when I say we had a very good time. However, I did not appreciate the property damage to my vehicle or the harassment by the "locals" while dining with my family. Keep in mind these many so-called locals are from nowhere near Colorado and masquerade as some sort of frothy authority on mountaineering, gastronome, politics and other subjects of the Colorado mountains.

I have displayed "Viva Bush" and "W'04" bumper stickers on my car for the last year and a half. (Yes, it is a new SUV). Never before has my car been vandalized or have I concerned myself with harm to my vehicle (although I recognized this as a possibility). The morning after our arrival I went to retrieve something from our vehicle. I was horrified to discover that our car had been vandalized overnight in the parking garage. Cheese (yes, cheese) had been jammed into the rearview mirrors and under the windshield wipers. The vandals also took a black permanent marker to the back of my vehicle and defaced the stickers (no big deal really, they will be replaced). The last thing noticed was the message "**** Bush & **** you" with a black swastika written on the side of my vehicle in permanent black magic marker. Imagine my horror at this unprovoked act. Although my heritage is German I am neither an anti-Semite nor am I a racist. Furthermore, imagine driving your family around your town with a swastika on the back of your car.

After the initial anger wore off, my family and I went out to breakfast at 9545 in the Mountain Village. My car defaced, I decided to wear my support of the President with one of his campaign T-shirts. Some sort of vindication I guess for what happened to my vehicle. Immediately after my family took our seats, our waiter began to harass me in regards to my wardrobe choice with comments such as: "You have big balls to wear such a shirt in this town," "Be careful walking around here. Something might happen to you," (doubtful) and "Go back to Texas." (I am the one from Colorado, not he. I hear the East Coast is lovely this time of year.)

My response to him was that I have a good grasp of the issues and to please sit down, I would be happy to discuss his views with him - he would not accept my invitation. At this point we should have walked out of the restaurant. When I left to use the facilities, he, being a coward, took the opportunity to zero in on my wife, mentioning to her that I should take the shirt off or turn it inside out. Her retort was powerful, the essence being that his actions were completely inappropriate and disgusting and to leave us alone. We were seated on the patio and he did not return, even to service his other customers (someone else was assigned to do so). In retrospect, we should have left or consulted with the management. I was determined at that point not to be run off by some unkempt transplant "local" from Boston or Vermont. We finished our breakfast and left Telluride, early, in our gas-guzzling SUV. Likely, he peddled off on his beach cruiser back to his pad to await the arrival of 4:20, confused on why he received no tip.

The actions I've decided to take based on this situation are the following: I've made additional donations to the George W. Bush, the GOP and Pete Coors, and will continue to do so to help ensure their success. I also plan to have my car detailed to remove the scars that the coward left and replace the stickers with new ones (I have a stack on my desk) and continue to support what I believe in. And, I will compose similar letters to other Colorado papers, Rocky Mountain News, Denver Post, Vail Daily, etc. Carve time out of my schedule to volunteer and support the GOP.

Questions - Why is it en vogue for the left to vocally support their candidates but unacceptable for the right to voice their support for their candidates? Do you believe I was asking for my SUV to be defaced? Do you believe it is good business practice to harass a guest with this family? Were you trying to see if I would take action? If so, I have and the GOP and "W" send thanks.

Best regards,

T.J. VanderHeiden

Parker, Colo.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by MLB

Best regards,

T.J. VanderHeiden

Parker, Colo.

Sounds like Telluride made an impression on Mr. VanderHeiden (4 capitals in his name...impressive!)

I hear tell there are places like that in the country of Texas that will offer you similar or worse treatment if you show up with anything but Bush stickers on your vehicle.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I hear tell there are places like that in the country of Texas that will offer you similar or worse treatment if you show up with anything but Bush stickers on your vehicle.

sort of like the Florida panhandle, and there are similar areas that will do the same if you show up with anything but Kerry stickers

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

sort of like the Florida panhandle, and there are similar areas that will do the same if you show up with anything but Kerry stickers

I'll bet Bush stickers are real popular in the People's Republic of Boulder.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I'll bet Bush stickers are real popular in the People's Republic of Boulder.

oh yeah!

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller

sort of like the Florida panhandle, and there are similar areas that will do the same if you show up with anything but Kerry stickers

I'll bet Bush stickers are real popular in the People's Republic of Boulder.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Swift boat ads push GOP veteran into Kerry camp

Ed Belfoure, who flew helicopters as a Marine in Vietnam, is a registered Republican. But he promises to cross party lines in November to vote for Democrat John Kerry for president.

Belfoure, of Washington, Pa., said yesterday he cannot abide the "despicable television ads" that donors to President Bush's campaign have aimed at Kerry.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04238/367395.stm

[watermock]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I'll bet Bush stickers are real popular in the People's Republic of Boulder.

I bet they would last about 30 seconds, stapled over with the Gay and Lesbian workgroup in the Student Union.

I know my boundraies. I can go into Boulder no problem. It's surreal how they have created their own reality. I usually go in homeless and act out. It's totally cool. I find some female clowns that understand I was a victim of society and am looking for guidence. That usually gets you a couple bong hits and a sympathy BJ. It's been so long since someone understood me...tell me more about Boulder....UGGGGG....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"John, I didn't mean to offend you. You know, when you continue to attack George Bush . . . you know, George Bush is my guy.'"

--Bob Dole, (R-Whore) to John Kerry after accusing him of stealing a Purple Heart

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...04Aug23_2.html


Dole's suggestion that Kerry "never bled" runs counter to US Navy records showing that Kerry still carries shrapnel in his left thigh from a 1969 firefight.

I once had some respect for Bob Dole, a man who milked an entire career out of being wounded in battle, and now he turns gutter whore for the AWOL Deserter?

Remember the super-famous quote of Dole's, "Stop lying about my record!"

That was aimed at Bush the Smarter, who was lying about Dole's record.

Dole gets in line to fellate Dubya the AWOL deserter. McCain gets in line to fellate Dubya the AWOL deserter. Why do Republicans forgive and forget the BFEE's horrible personal attacks?

It would be one thing to mischaracterize a voting record or an issue position, but saying "McCain betrayed his fellow POWs in Hanio Hilton? is something McCain forgives?" "McCain went crazy in Vietnam - can we trust him now?" is something McCain forgives?" "McCain has a black baby - did you know that?" is something McCain forgives?"

Bob Dole, no matter how much you apologize, you can't be forgiven for this.

Like the idiot monkey, you suggest Kerry hand-pushed that shrapnel into his legs
so deep the the Navy surgeons were unable to reach it?

Bob Dole, that makes you an extra-stupid whore - you disgust me.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Quotes

"This is a presidential race. We're 70 some days away. It's political hardball, and certainly Senator Kerry understands that. There's respect there. We were in the Senate together. But we're talking about the presidential race, and I tweaked him a little on the Purple Hearts. I just wanted him to get off Bush's back and have his people get off Bush's back."

--Bob Dole, on why he screwed his old friend with a caustic lie

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...5520&printer=1

Apparently Dole the Liar ("It's either the White House or Russell, Kansas for me!") thinks screwing an old friend with a nasty-ass lie is wrong the week before the election, but 70 days out is OK because people understand that this is political hardball where you can **** an old friend with class.

By the way, Bob, since we're 70 days away and "tweaking" is accepted, and respect is there...I always wondered, ...do you stab Elizabeth in the back with your pen after your Viagra kicks in?

[Raider Bill]

I can't wait to see you go bonkers if Bush wins the election. It's going to be absolutely comical around here.

If Kerry wins, I don't really care that much. The GOP will pick up seats in the legislature and anything Kerry tries to do will have to be pretty watered down to pass muster.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I can't wait to see you go bonkers if Bush wins the election. It's going to be absolutely comical around here.

You and people like you are the true "America haters."

You would cheer the "re"-election of an administration which is ruining our country just to make ego points.

You will vote against your own economic interests purely out of spite.

If by some miracle Deserter Boy steals another term, then you deserve everything you're going to get.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If by some miracle Deserter Boy steals another term, then you deserve everything you're going to get.

I hope so. I'm doing quite well these days.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm doing quite well these days.

So are Halliburton and The Carlyle Group. Your point is...?


Tricky Dick rises from grave to prove Swift Boat Vet is liar

The pathological Bush administrations's lying proxies are so full of crap that they can't tell what is real or part of their fantasy world. Republicans loved Nixon until he was caught, and then resented only the people who caught him. They lie compulsively and consider it a badge of honor, resenting not only the truth, but the people who point it out. Why do they hate truth, America and justice so much?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...857EDT0754.DTL

[Raider Bill]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I'm doing quite well these days.

So are Halliburton and The Carlyle Group. Your point is...?


[]

I would like to see this continue, screw the rest of you guys as long as Im doing well

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by njbil

I would like to see this continue, screw the rest of you guys as long as Im doing well

That's a very caring attitude...

[watermock]

I love the assumptive title of the thread itself.

Some clown that wants to vote Kerry speaks for everyone? Swift Boats for Truth doesn't claim that Veterans want to vote for Bush. It's simply Swift Boats for the Truth.

I find it quite amusing that if some delusional veteran wants to vote for Kerry it's some sort of incrimination of Biblical proportions. Gee, there just might be a few Veterans out there that voted for Gore that plan to vote for Bush. WTF?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

More Veterans Disgusted by Swift Boat Liars for Bush

As a disabled Vietnam veteran (1965, 66, 67--I Corps, Marble Mountain) I for one am outraged by not only John O'Neill, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth(?), Thurlow and the outrageous statements of theirs, but at the U.S. media for elevating this whole thing to the level it is at.

With the "swifties" funding coming from a long time Bush supporter and John O'Neill an attorney in Houston for the Oil and Gas industry it does not take a rocket scientist to see the political manipulation taking place.

One thing is an absolute fact, while John Kerry was in Vietnam, no one knew where George Bush was at. Not even his commanding officers in the Texas Air National Guard where aware that Bush was in Alabama "protecting" that state against communisim.

The only thing the Swifties has accomplished, past smearing Kerry much in the same manner the Bush people smeared John McCain in 2000 and Max Cleland in 2002, is to bring up memories that a lot of us that served in Vietnam have struggled for years trying to eliminate.

Additionally their B.S. has cast a dark cloud over all of us that served in that obscene mess that was called the "Vietnam War." The Swifties are condeming Kerry for opposing the war after coming "home" they seem to have conviently forgotten how many of us joined in that condemnation of the Vietnam war.

There were war crimes that were committed there. And they happened with frequency. The kids in Iraq today are being placed in the same kind of convoluted, politically based, lie generated war as were we that served in Vietnam.

With the myriad issues of great importance facing the country right now I really think that is what should be discussed with the garbage from the Swifties being put in it's proper place...flush, flush, flush!

Jack Dalton

www.ommp.org

Iraq and Afghanistan Troops Disgusted by Smear Boat Chumps for Bush

I was really disappointed by Bob Doles remarks that Kerry only suffered minor wounds. He was being shot at. How bad did it have to be? Would the Swift Boat Veterans and Bush have treated him better if he had lost arms and legs.
We know the answer to that one. NO Kerry saved lives in Vietnam and saved even more lives when he came home by helping to bring and end to another war we should have never gotten in to in the first place. Let's not let these lies lead to another theft of office by the misguided Right Wingers of this wonderful country. Vote for Kerry/Edwards.

Posted by Norm

Well, who started this? The Bush side did. Kerry tried to ignore it for a couple of weeks, then decided he wasn't going to take it anymore.

Direct your complaints to the Swift Boat people who have been continually going on the talking heads shows and peddling their version of "truth."

Posted by Vicki Meagher

Do the reading, people--this goes back to the 1960's, when Kerry was pegged as politically ambitious and targeted as an enemy by the Nixon administration.

It's been an issue in every single one of his politcal campaigns since then and resurrected yet with Karl Rove's support to take people's minds off Bush's dismal service record.

Questioning Kerry's medlas is an insult to every single soldier who has ever served in the United States Armed Forces.

Posted by Ms. G

He is proud and he is standing up. As a Navy brat whose dad spent several tours in Vietnam, I can't for the life of me understand why the Bush Administration treats those who served and risk their lives (for example McCain, Clelland, Kerry) with so much disrespect. Why not just applaud their service and move on to the issues that concern voters? I don't think Bush, Cheney, and Rove are cowards because they either did not serve or maybe served in the National Guard -- few people wanted to go to Vietnam. I think they're cowards because they carelessly sent our young men and women to die in Iraq without appreciating what it would mean to lose a father, mother, child, brother, or sister in a war that wasn't absolutely necessary.

Posted by ksoh

As the father of a heroic Marine Captain who served seven months in Iraq, I know that medals are not given away without cause. My son was put up for a Bronze Star. After review by a panel of officers and eyewitness accounts of his actions he was awarded a "Commendation for combat Valor" I believe John Kerry earned his medals.

I have a problem with george Bush; though well trained, disappeared from service and did not show for his physical examination. We can only hypothesize as to Why?
The presidents continued support of Kerry's detractors is doing more harm to the armed forces than to John Kerry.

Posted by John Colombero Sr.

Hear it from the Troops

Hear first-person accounts about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan from the people who were there.

http://optruth.com/main.cfm?actionId...ey=hear&lnav=1

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sad to Say, Kerry Spoke the Truth...A Conservative on Vietnam

Now we hear that many Vietnam veterans are upset with John Kerry, because he testified to Congress back in 1971, about Americans committing war crimes while serving in Vietnam.

The sad thing is that Kerry was telling the truth. While the vast majority of veterans behaved honorably, there were still thousands and thousands who did not. Even if only ½ of 1% committed a crime, that could add up to 45,000 bad American soldiers and Marines.

Just maybe the men offended by Kerry’s testimony never saw any combat or they were the ones committing the crimes and are feeling guilty. It has been widely reported that between one and three million innocent Vietnamese civilians were killed in the war. Somebody did that killing and that is a crime.

People ask why if Kerry knew about these crimes he didn’t stop them. Here is the attitude I had over in the Nam: you f___ with me and you are dead. Somebody shoots a gook and you start to say something, chances are pretty good that you will be dead too. I cannot tell you how many senior enlisted men and officers were killed by our own troops, but I bet it was in the thousands.

Some sick Americans just liked to kill gooks. "The only good gook is a dead gook." I saw guys with collections of ears and fingers. They were pretty strange and scary. Lots of guys were strung out on smack and who knows what they would do to get more.

ROK Marines kept heads on sticks in front of their compound. War gets crazy and some Americans got crazy too. They kill and rape and do even more terrible stuff than that. It made me sick. My government tortured women and children to death.

Kerry was telling the truth and some Americans cannot handle the truth.

War is a crime.

August 26, 2004

Jim Glaser , a Marine Corps Vietnam War veteran and Commander of VFW Post 3869, works to educate the American public on the consequences of war. His personal website is JamesGlaser.org

http://www.lewrockwell.com/glaser/glaser22.html