Bush to pull troops out of Europe and Asia?

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

This move alone would be enough to swing your vote to Bush, TJ?

I didn't say my vote has swung toward Bush. I did say that I was undecided.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

This is an election year ploy. He hopes to be re-elected and then call them up for Iraq. Kerry has promised to start removing troops within 6 months after he is elected. I hope nobody bites on this one and praises Bush for bringing them home.

I'm hoping the American people can see through the smoke and mirrors by now.

If Clinton had done this, they'd have lynched him!

"Weakening our armed forces!"

If Kerry does this (once he's elected) they'll scream the same.

It's about time we cut back on the bases in Europe, but I think Dumbya and the chickenhawks are going to shift our whole military to the Middle East as part of the "Drang Noch Osten" those fascists are planning.

Even the bases in Europe... like Bondsteel... are in eastern Europe.

It's sure as hell ALL about OIL! Ain't no oil in Germany.

We have 725 bases overseas, and if each one can't pay it's way in Texas Tea... it's GONE!

And living in Hamburg is MUCH worse than Iraq. Count another hundred thousand votes for Kerry.

Unka Karl wants people to only hear the "70k troops coming home" part.

This is how little the Bush White House respects Americans.

Details about where they are coming from or ultimately going to, are for sensitive and thinking French-looking people.

Misunderestimating the voting public only works for so long. Without Rove, Smirk would be taking Utah, Idaho and Massabama, period. So he deserves a lot of credit for turing a useless unemployable punk into a political force. But it won't work twice.

And the saddest thing is that the SUV-Patriots are gonna be waving their flags and crowing about Bush bringing home 70,000 troops. It doesn't matter that he's bringing them home from where they're NOT getting shot at!

...The reality of the move is to "shuffle" troops from one place to another and enable Bush to send even more troops into the battle with Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course, he will not want to be seen directly transferring troops from Germany into Iraq and will almost certainly use the withdrawn troops to replace other soldiers who will be sent to Iraq. We believe the majority of those will come from bases in the US. The "shuffling" also provides a change of scenery for some of the troops, whose morale has fallen considerably over the last few months.

With a number of allies either pulling out from Iraq or reluctant to provide additional troops, Bush has found his military force being stretched to dangerous levels.

The Bush administration will of course mention that the plan by the Pentagon has been studied for more than a year, but in truth the "redeployment" idea has only become more serious in the last 2-3 months.

The moving of troops, the most comprehensive in years, should be seen more as a sign of desperation by Bush and not some plan to "reshape" the military for the new century! This continuing concentration of military in the Middle East is leaving the US more at risk at home from a major attack. America should remember that there are many other potential dangers in the world other than Iraq and Al-Qaeda and if it leaves its defenses bare, it may get to find out who the "others" are!

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/08/15/MN288.htm

[Meck77]

Good Lord LA. There is just no pleasing you. If 500,000 high paying jobs were created in 1 week and all of Al Qeada surrendered to Bush at once you still wouldn't be happy. You are entitled to your opinion but you are just way over the top man. You are the only Broncos fan I can think of that I wouldn't want to see at a Broncos tailgate in Denver. If you were here you wouldn't even care about the game. I bet you would be walking around with a sign around your neck that says "I HATE BUSH WHO CARES ABOUT THE BRONCOS".

I'd rather drink a beer with Crazyhorse the chef fan. Atleast the guy talks about ball even though he has no idea what he is saying either.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You are the only Broncos fan I can think of that I wouldn't want to see at a Broncos tailgate in Denver.

Now there's a well-reasoned rebuttal to a political argument if I ever saw one.

[Meck77]

It pleases me that you hate Bush and life so much. Keep up the good work!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You do not have the ability to be objective at all.

You obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to participate in an actual political debate, as evidenced by your failure to take on one single issue under discussion here--opting instead for the usual ad hominem.

Your life revolves around George Bush. It really is funny. Get a life.

Your life revolves around your compulsion to protect your favorite saudi sock puppet--irregardless of whether he is right or wrong on any given issue. Talk about someone who needs to 'get a life!'

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Looks like someone's been doing some deleting.

It pleases me that you hate Bush and life so much.

Riiiiiight. I "hate life" because I don't support bush and point out his failures.

Another well-reasoned and compelling piece of logic.

You are only making yourself appear desperate here.

Do yourself a favor and quit before you embarrass yourself any further.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

This is an election year ploy. He hopes to be re-elected and then call them up for Iraq. Kerry has promised to start removing troops within 6 months after he is elected. I hope nobody bites on this one and praises Bush for bringing them home.

I'm hoping the American people can see through the smoke and mirrors by now.

If Clinton had done this, they'd have lynched him!

"Weakening our armed forces!"

If Kerry does this (once he's elected) they'll scream the same.

It's about time we cut back on the bases in Europe, but I think Dumbya and the chickenhawks are going to shift our whole military to the Middle East as part of the "Drang Noch Osten" those fascists are planning.

Even the bases in Europe... like Bondsteel... are in eastern Europe.

It's sure as hell ALL about OIL! Ain't no oil in Germany.

We have 725 bases overseas, and if each one can't pay it's way in Texas Tea... it's GONE!

And living in Hamburg is MUCH worse than Iraq. Count another hundred thousand votes for Kerry.

Unka Karl wants people to only hear the "70k troops coming home" part.

This is how little the Bush White House respects Americans.

Details about where they are coming from or ultimately going to, are for sensitive and thinking French-looking people.

Misunderestimating the voting public only works for so long. Without Rove, Smirk would be taking Utah, Idaho and Massabama, period. So he deserves a lot of credit for turing a useless unemployable punk into a political force. But it won't work twice.

And the saddest thing is that the SUV-Patriots are gonna be waving their flags and crowing about Bush bringing home 70,000 troops. It doesn't matter that he's bringing them home from where they're NOT getting shot at!

...The reality of the move is to "shuffle" troops from one place to another and enable Bush to send even more troops into the battle with Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course, he will not want to be seen directly transferring troops from Germany into Iraq and will almost certainly use the withdrawn troops to replace other soldiers who will be sent to Iraq. We believe the majority of those will come from bases in the US. The "shuffling" also provides a change of scenery for some of the troops, whose morale has fallen considerably over the last few months.

With a number of allies either pulling out from Iraq or reluctant to provide additional troops, Bush has found his military force being stretched to dangerous levels.

The Bush administration will of course mention that the plan by the Pentagon has been studied for more than a year, but in truth the "redeployment" idea has only become more serious in the last 2-3 months.

The moving of troops, the most comprehensive in years, should be seen more as a sign of desperation by Bush and not some plan to "reshape" the military for the new century! This continuing concentration of military in the Middle East is leaving the US more at risk at home from a major attack. America should remember that there are many other potential dangers in the world other than Iraq and Al-Qaeda and if it leaves its defenses bare, it may get to find out who the "others" are!

http://www.profindpages.com/news/2004/08/15/MN288.htm

LABF,

Could you make a trip back to your source website (Moscow news?) and ask the author what "Drang Noch Osten" means in this context. I don't speak German(?) and haven't ever heard the term before.

And while you are there, maybe you can find out who the "others" are and why drawing down forces in central Europe will make the US less secure.

[watermock]

The guy is like a programmed robot. It's incredible.

There is this robot over at Pravda.com named Attossa that was really similar. She was screaming about bringing the Czar back.

Listen to this all time classic from LABF:

And living in Hamburg is MUCH worse than Iraq. Count another hundred thousand votes for Kerry.

It's astounding. This fool couldn't even find Germany on a map yet alone Hamburg. My ancestors were from Hamburg, and it's been totally rebuilt, and much from American help. I am still terribly bitter about the firebombing of civilians, but WTF can I do about it as a full blooded German/Dutch Ancestry? Sue the Army Air Force for something that was totally rediculous?

Maybe I should sue them like the NAACP for Slavery. It's OVER. DONE. I'm so damn pissed I'm shaking.

Well it was, when we firebombed the place 60 years ago and I lost a few dozen relatives in what was once a peaceful agricultural city.

And you think I give a rats ass if we level Najif to glass? Think again.

Do you even have a clue what Hamburg looks like? It sure doesn't look like a warzone centered in a 5 square mile cemetary in Iraq where weapons are stored in tombs. You get further and further out there every day.

Seriously dude, your losing it. I don't know if your doing it for attention, or your genuinely insane. Why not move to China or Russia or Canada since things are so god damn horrible here?

Or are you mad because your skills relegate you to dipping french fries? Money is everywhere. The government is giving the stuff away at 4 percent for god's sake and your b****ing.

Get on your moped and make a quick 50k working in the Hurricane zone and stop your damn b****ing. God Damn, your worse than a castrated pig.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

I've always been worried about N. Korea developing nuclear weapons. If that happens and they really threaten S. Korea, it's going to be a situation that requires a lot more than the 3,500 troop force that we currently have deployed there. It's wasted manpower unless N. Korea actually gives us a reason to pay attention to them.

We are removing 3,500 not leaving 3,500 in S. Korea. They've been protesting our stay there for a while now. Fine, let them sign their own death certificate.

I'm really worried about China. In 10-20 years these guys are going to have an economy that rivals our and a military to boot plus with 4 times more people. Welcome to Cold War II.

[Taco John]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If Clinton had done this, they'd have lynched him!

"Weakening our armed forces!"

If Clinton would have done this, I'd have praised him too... It's a prudent move, especially in the wake of 9/11.

I think this is a great move. Plus it's one that forces Kerry to double back on his previous stance on this if he wants to keep up, so it's also politically expedient.

Slowly, I'm coming to grips that though I don't care for Bush, he's looking like the better choice between the two for the position of Commander in Chief. Kerry's problem is that he's to wishy washy, and there are a hundred examples of it.

[patteeu]

Looks like LABF has driven another voter into Bush's arms. Keep up the good work LABF.

[orangeatheist]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

This is an election year ploy. He hopes to be re-elected and then call them up for Iraq. Kerry has promised to start removing troops within 6 months after he is elected. I hope nobody bites on this one and praises Bush for bringing them home.

Like I stated before, L.A., I like you but I disagree with you. You may be right that this move may be part of election year politics, but it's still the right thing to do. Kerry may or may not have done the same within six months of taking office. We'll never know now. I praise Bush for taking this action, regardless of his timing. I don't buy for a second that this was done purely to boost his favorability numbers. You even state later that the guys he's bringing home from comfy Hamburg are gonna turn on him come election day when they get re-deployed to Najaf.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

I'm hoping the American people can see through the smoke and mirrors by now.

I try my best! And both of the salesman have their own show, by the way.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If Clinton had done this, they'd have lynched him!

"Weakening our armed forces!"

Perhaps, perhaps not. He did a lot of gutting here at home and now it looks to have been a poor move. Given the circumstances of the 1990's, if Clinton had done this the more military and conservative-minded pundits may likely have done more than a double-take. But in today's world, if Clinton was still President and had the hand current circumstances had dealt him, I don't think your forecast would be accurate. I know at least in my case that I'd praise any President --like em or hate em-- for pulling our troops from an ungrateful Europe.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If Kerry does this (once he's elected) they'll scream the same.

Like I said, we'll never know. Kerry can't do this 'cuz Bush already beat him to it. And, with that in mind, we'll never know what Kerry would have done if he does win the election in November. However, if Bush had not made this move now and Kerry did after having gained the office, I would have praised Kerry as I praise Bush today.

Would you have praised Kerry for making this move if he had done so in March '05? Or do you think it's an all around bad move regardless of which President called for it?

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

It's about time we cut back on the bases in Europe...

So you do praise Bush for this move?

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

...but I think Dumbya and the chickenhawks are going to shift our whole military to the Middle East as part of the "Drang Noch Osten" those fascists are planning.

I have no idea what "Drang Noch Osten" means (Google would've helped if my company didn't block all of the translation sites!) so I can't comment on your view of Bush's ultimate "fascist" design. However, I do know that the current crisis is in the Middle East and that this is the region requiring most of our military might. Certainly Germany doesn't require our presence nearly as much. What's wrong with filling a need?

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

It's sure as hell ALL about OIL! Ain't no oil in Germany.

Generalizations like that rarely gain acceptance from anyone other than the choir. I sure as hell don't beleive it's ALL about OIL.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

We have 725 bases overseas, and if each one can't pay it's way in Texas Tea... it's GONE!

Come on, dude. You don't really believe that, do you?

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

And living in Hamburg is MUCH worse than Iraq. Count another hundred thousand votes for Kerry.

Which undercuts your assertion that this is purely a political move by the Bush camp.

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Unka Karl wants people to only hear the "70k troops coming home" part.

This is how little the Bush White House respects Americans.

Details about where they are coming from or ultimately going to, are for sensitive and thinking French-looking people.

Misunderestimating the voting public only works for so long.

I think it is you who underestimates and misunderstands the voting public. I don't think people are so stupid as to think that the troops being brought back from Europe and Asia are simply going to go home for a nice dinner and then spend time playing poker at the local bases. Everyone not living under a rock knows where our troops are engaged and everyone knows that it isn't in Germany.

[Rohirrim]

Now, if only Bush would line those troops up along our border with Mexico - hell, even I might vote for him.

j/k

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by orangeatheist

...
I have no idea what "Drang Noch Osten" means (Google would've helped if my company didn't block all of the translation sites!) so I can't comment on your view of Bush's ultimate "fascist" design. ...

According to google, "Drang Noch Osten" means "Urge still the East" in German. That doesn't help me, but if you figure it out let me know.

[orangeatheist]

Originally Posted by patteeu

According to google, "Drang Noch Osten" means "Urge still the East" in German. That doesn't help me, but if you figure it out let me know.

Hmmmm....eehhhh...nope. Still don't get it. But, in the context of L.A.'s quote I can hazard a guess:

1.) '...shift[ing] our whole military to the Middle East as part of the "Urge Still the East" those fascists are planning' may mean that the US military will simply continue to march Eastward in their determination to obliterate contenteous Arab nations and this influx of former European and Asian troops simply add to that contingent.

How did I do L.A.?

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by orangeatheist

Hmmmm....eehhhh...nope. Still don't get it. But, in the context of L.A.'s quote I can hazard a guess:

1.) '...shift[ing] our whole military to the Middle East as part of the "Urge Still the East" those fascists are planning' may mean that the US military will simply continue to march Eastward in their determination to obliterate contenteous Arab nations and this influx of former European and Asian troops simply add to that contingent.

How did I do L.A.?

That sounds like a pretty good guess to me. If that's the case, I'm not sure I have much problem with Drang Noch Osten.

[orangeatheist]

Originally Posted by patteeu

That sounds like a pretty good guess to me. If that's the case, I'm not sure I have much problem with Drang Noch Osten.

Neither do I.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Taco John

If Clinton would have done this, I'd have praised him too... It's a prudent move, especially in the wake of 9/11.

I think this is a great move. Plus it's one that forces Kerry to double back on his previous stance on this if he wants to keep up, so it's also politically expedient.

Slowly, I'm coming to grips that though I don't care for Bush, he's looking like the better choice between the two for the position of Commander in Chief. Kerry's problem is that he's to wishy washy, and there are a hundred examples of it.

There are no troops being moved from anywhere until at least 2006 under Bush's announced plan. No relief for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. The number now is 70,000 or less. This is, as someone else stated, politics in an election year.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

Its a no win situation. The Koreans want us out, but if we leave and North Korea goes nuclear, then its our fault (specifically BUSH'S fault) for pulling troops out of there. If we stay, we deal with protestors abroad and at home. We are not even pulling that many troops out of asia, most of the recall is in Europe.

But of course, you cant please everyone all the time and JOsh is just one of those people that will never be pleased by anything anyone in government does.

not true.... stop lying, cut my taxes to where i pay 15%, leave religion out of gov't - would be steps to make me happier.

hmmmm... make it so congress doesn't get to vote its own pay raises, balanced budget amendment and tighten boarders and i'd be cool for a while.


you just support a big government and want a theocracy, where i want true democracy (not a republic)


see libertarians could have red/blue states for real. if you don't like a lefty state like cali - you could move to a righty state like kansas - instead of imposing crap on everyone - you can have choice.

i know choice & freedom are something your kind cannot handle alec - but we all shouldn't be punished for idiots that roam around.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Bush to announce US troop pullouts from Europe, Asia on Monday: report

LONDON (AFP) Aug 14, 2004
The United States is expected to announce Monday that it is pulling 100,000 troops out of Europe and Asia, the Financial Times newspaper reported Saturday.
It said the withdrawals -- the largest restructuring of Washington's military presence abroad since World War II -- would be announced in a speech by US President George W. Bush.

Citing "people briefed on the plan" in a front-page story datelined London, the newspaper said two-thirds of the reductions would be in Europe, with 70,000 troops -- mostly from Germany -- being sent back to stateside bases.

"In Asia, the drawdown is expected to include the 3,500-soldier brigade from South Korea, recently deployed in Iraq, but will also include scaling down presences in several other countries in the region," it said.

Germany will still host the largest contingent of US troops in Europe, but the pullouts could nevertheless see the departure of the 1st Armoured Division and the 1st Infantry Division, the Financial Times said.

So, he's gonna pull them out... Who wants to bet that they wind up in Iraq

[MLB]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

You do not have the ability to be objective at all.

You obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to participate in an actual political debate, as evidenced by your failure to take on one single issue under discussion here--opting instead for the usual ad hominem.

Your life revolves around George Bush. It really is funny. Get a life.

Your life revolves around your compulsion to protect your favorite saudi sock puppet--irregardless of whether he is right or wrong on any given issue. Talk about someone who needs to 'get a life!'

irregardless?

That sounds like something Dubya would say.

You really shouldn't question someone's intellectual capacity if you're going to use such words.

[watermock]

Irregardless of whether Irregardless is a proper word, it's commonly used as regardless, with an emphasis of Irr, or error, implying a dual meaning. Proper would be regardless of the argument that may be valid, your still in error, or that the argument is not A Priori, or irrelevant. It's a combination of irrelevant and regardless and commonly used.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And while you are there, maybe you can find out who the "others" are and why drawing down forces in central Europe will make the US less secure.

Aside from the fact that this is obviously just another political ploy by BushCo, here are the obvious reasons why the withdrawl isn't a good idea:

• We're facing a global war on terror with Al-Qaeda active in more than 60 countries, now is not the time to pull back our forces.
• Removing US forces from the Korean peninsula could send a dangerous signal of weak US resolve" to North Korea's Kim Jong-Il at a crucial moment in efforts to persuade him to scrap his nuclear weapons programs.
• A pullout from Europe would further strain relations with NATO allies, would be interpreted as the distancing of the US from NATO, and will set back US efforts to encourage greater NATO participation in Iraq.
• It will increase the burden on many military families as troops will be separated from their families during more frequent and unaccompanied deployments to Eastern Europe.
• It's not going to save us money. It will cost billions of dollars to move these troops.
• This move would cause a weakening of our traditional ties to our closest allies just when we need them most.
• Germany, South Korea, and Japan, which will see the biggest cuts, all spend billions of dollars to support the troops

So, he's gonna pull them out... Who wants to bet that they wind up in Iraq

Props to you for having the intelligence to raise the question, i.e., what happens next for these troops?

Looks like LABF has driven another voter into Bush's arms. Keep up the good work LABF.

Riiiiiight.

Like TJ needed any help from me to push him off the fence.

If just this one issue alone (coupled with a lack of familiarity w/ Kerry's record and proposals) is enough to sway you, then you deserve everything you're going to get if Smirk gets another term.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

irregardless?

That sounds like something Dubya would say.

You really shouldn't question someone's intellectual capacity if you're going to use such words.

It's a perfectly good word.

Look it up in the dictionary while I'm "questioning your intellectual capacity."