9 Things the Rich Don't Want You to Know About Taxes

[Rohirrim]

I see people arguing on this board that raising taxes on the rich would make our economy worse. So I thought I would resurrect this discussion on propaganda and mythology:

For three decades we have conducted a massive economic experiment, testing a theory known as supply-side economics. The theory goes like this: Lower tax rates will encourage more investment, which in turn will mean more jobs and greater prosperity—so much so that tax revenues will go up, despite lower rates. The late Milton Friedman, the libertarian economist who wanted to shut down public parks because he considered them socialism, promoted this strategy. Ronald Reagan embraced Friedman’s ideas and made them into policy when he was elected president in 1980.

For the past decade, we have doubled down on this theory of supply-side economics with the tax cuts sponsored by President George W. Bush in 2001 and 2003, which President Obama has agreed to continue for two years.

You would think that whether this grand experiment worked would be settled after three decades. You would think the practitioners of the dismal science of economics would look at their demand curves and the data on incomes and taxes and pronounce a verdict, the way Galileo and Copernicus did when they showed that geocentrism was a fantasy because Earth revolves around the sun (known as heliocentrism). But economics is not like that. It is not like physics with its laws and arithmetic with its absolute values.

Tax policy is something the framers left to politics. And in politics, the facts often matter less than who has the biggest bullhorn.

The Mad Men who once ran campaigns featuring doctors extolling the health benefits of smoking are now busy marketing the dogma that tax cuts mean broad prosperity, no matter what the facts show.
http://wweek.com/portland/article-17...out_taxes.html

[Rohirrim]

Despite skyrocketing incomes, the federal tax burden on the richest 400 has been slashed, thanks to a variety of loopholes, allowable deductions and other tools. The actual share of their income paid in taxes, according to the IRS, is 16.6 percent. Adding payroll taxes barely nudges that number.

Compare that to the vast majority of Americans, whose share of their income going to federal taxes increased from 13.1 percent in 1961 to 22.5 percent in 2007.

[El Minion]

Was going to post in its own thread but maybe would get more traction here.

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From the National Journal: "TED organizers invited a multimillionaire Seattle venture capitalist named Nick Hanauer – the first nonfamily investor in Amazon.com – to give a speech on March 1 at their TED University conference. Inequality was the topic – specifically, Hanauer’s contention that the middle class, and not wealthy innovators like himself, are America’s true “job creator"..."




Nick Hanauer:

Significant privileges have come to capitalists like me for being perceived as “job creators” at the center of the economic universe, and the language and metaphors we use to defend the fairness of the current social and economic arrangements is telling. For instance, it is a small step from “job creator” to “The Creator”. We did not accidentally choose this language. It is only honest to admit that calling oneself a “job creator” is both an assertion about how economics works and the a claim on status and privileges.

The extraordinary differential between a 15% tax rate on capital gains, dividends, and carried interest for capitalists, and the 35% top marginal rate on work for ordinary Americans is a privilege that is hard to justify without just a touch of deification.

[Missouribronc]

Tax code reform absolutely has to happen.

The funny thing, though, is that it will not stop investors from going to other countries with lower tax rates and wage requirements.

I know you liberals want to get upset at the Republicans for this, but reality is reality.

[barryr]

If those liberals in Hollywood stopped doing all they could to avoid paying taxes, then maybe there wouldn't be such a problem. Even Buffet owes taxes. Funny how everyone but liberals are considered greedy and wasteful, yet take a deep look at what they do if you want to see greed and waste.

[snowspot66]

Originally Posted by barryr

If those liberals in Hollywood stopped doing all they could to avoid paying taxes, then maybe there wouldn't be such a problem. Even Buffet owes taxes. Funny how everyone but liberals are considered greedy and wasteful, yet take a deep look at what they do if you want to see greed and waste.

That whooshing sound was the point you just missed.

[cutthemdown]

The theory of getting people to invest will always be good. So the the counter is if supply side not working because overseas investing has become so lucrative, lets tax them and let govt spend the money here at home.

The problem with that will be govt wasting a ton more money then they already do. Don't get me started on the supposed federal job training programs. So much money for how many people they actually trained its a joke. It ends up only a job for trainers, and thats all it creates. That is the sort of thing that scares people about govt taking over large portions of the economy.

I can see the point though that if the money people make, gets saved, or just invested overseas, it does little for our economy. But I won't pretend I know how to solve that. I'm sure any idea I have is already being done or wouldn't work. Obviously some sort fo tax breaks to invest at home would seem logical, but they already do that subsidizing loads of things. Not like that is any breakthrough.

I know the Aussies kicking ass. Biggest economy with a budget surplus. They did it through a ton of mining. They mined everywhere they could practically. We have some good rare earth mines, some promising mineral deposits in Alaska, we need to get on them. We have to do everything we can to not screw it up and ***ishumi our country, but we can't just let our resources sit in the ground.

Dems act like all we have to do is tax the rich, tax the corporations and all will be well. I think that is a pipe dream. At least the british are buying a load of f-35 now instead of the French plane. France is pissed about it. Seems like we could make a lot of the money back through taxes on these high end items we make. Selling stuff to places like the UK and other NATO countries seems like a no brainer.

We should make a deal right now with the Phillipines. You give us first dibs on developing the offshore resources, you give us a cut etc etc, and we will make sure China doesn't take them from you. Also in exchange you agree to use a certain % of the money you make to buy our older ships. They already bought one so the pipeline is there. Also lots of oil and probably other goodies out there. We fought a war and took all those islands. We gave them back to rightful owners. Russia friggin kept theirs, China wants to take. How can we let that that happen?

[cutthemdown]

Hell I am surprised we have never had a movie ticket tax. Its one thing even the liberals in CA won't do lol.

So how many new taxes that haven't been thought of can you liberals come up with. Conservatives as well lol. We can target the things the other likes.

Liberals can say ammo tax, 25% on all ammo purchases.
Liberals could say make churches pay property tax. ( I agree with this one when it comes to churches over a certain size). What went down at the Crystal Cathedral was a joke. They had a wife that married one of the Schulers making like 60 grand a yr to pick what songs the choir would sing. . When she finally admitted to how many hours a week it took. She said 1. ! Religious people can be so stupid with giving there money to churches. If I was religious I would just pick someone in the church struggling, give my tithe straight to him. Letting other people take your money, to then do something with it, never works out well.

[Arkie]

Movie producers get some tax credits and other government incentives to produce movies.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by Arkie

Movie producers get some tax credits and other government incentives to produce movies.

Pretty sure most of that local and state stuff. I get it though, to try and keep production from leaving to places like Canada. But a federal movie ticket tax would be unheard of and met with groans all over the country lol. Not even the liberals would try that.