Smear Boat Veterans for Bush Falsehoods - Page 3 - The Orange Mane

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 06:20 PM

Swift boats weren't involved with combat until AFTER Kerry volunteered for the duty. Look up Operation Sealord the combat operation that changed the scope of combat seen by swift boats.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-10-2004, 06:23 PM

Are you guys this friggin obtuse.. read the mans quote.. not mine.. It's a godamn direct quote from John Forbes Kerry

Are you so thick as to not realize that, even if Kerry said that he didn't want to go to Viet Nam, the fact that he went anyway (and performed in an exemplary and heroic manner) is really the most important point?

And you missed Flame's point entirely, i.e., that Kerry didn't have to volunteer for a second tour.

Blueflame · 08-10-2004, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njbil

Are you guys this friggin obtuse.. read the mans quote.. not mine.. It's a godamn direct quote from John Forbes Kerry

"I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

Sure, I see the quote... and then think that it directly contradicts his actions. A wealthy, privileged young man who wanted to avoid combat in those days presumably requested... and got... stateside National Guard service; he did not enlist, re-up, and then volunteer to be deployed to the combat arena.

The discrepancy in what this author quotes Kerry as saying... and the actions Kerry took make me rather skeptical of the quote.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-10-2004, 06:28 PM

No matter how you slice it, Kerry served in Viet Nam and distinguished himself in combat.

Bush used daddy's influence to get into a cush ANG unit so he could avoid Viet Nam--and then he went AWOL.

BTW, njbil said on another thread that what either of these two guys did 30 years ago doesn't really matter to him, or words to that effect.

If this is the case, then why is he expending so much energy in his campaign to invalidate Kerry's service in Viet Nam?

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

The spam njbil is posting is just another right-wing hatchet job like that of the Smear Boat Vets for Bush.

You have to be friggin kidding me... It's a friggin quote from John Forbes Kerry.

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 06:32 PM

As far as the deferment being a "hatchet job".. maybe if you're willing to believe that 30 years ago Karl Rove planted a story in the Harvard school paper discussing it thereby thwarting Kerry's chances of winning the 2004 election. Give me a friggin break.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-10-2004, 06:33 PM

How does your argument jibe with the fact that Kerry volunteered for a second Viet Nam tour?

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueflame

The discrepancy in what this author quotes Kerry as saying... and the actions Kerry took make me rather skeptical of the quote.

What actions are those? Landing a cushy gig on a Frigate in the Bay of Tonklin then parlaying that into a cushy gig (at the time) skippering a Swift Boat. Operation Sealord changed all that.

Once the **** hit the fan he got his 3 boo boos and bailed. (The only swift boat vet that anyone can come up with that didnt finish his tour and lived) It all makes perfect sense to me.

Rohirrim · 08-10-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njbil

Swift boats weren't involved with combat until AFTER Kerry volunteered for the duty. Look up Operation Sealord the combat operation that changed the scope of combat seen by swift boats.

OK, let me see if I've got this straight. Kerry sailed in to Cam Ranh Bay on the deck of a frigate. (This is the way I heard the story) He sees some Swift boats tied up at a dock. So, instead of being an insignificant Lt. Jg. on a frigate, he thinks to himself, "I could command my own boat. Just like JFK!" So he signs up for Swiftie training, goes back to San Diego, trains, then returns to Vietnam, all the while thinking (insert Kerry's quote here). Right? Then, he arrives in Vietnam, gets his own Swiftie and the mission changes. Operation Sealord, headed by Zumwalt, begins. At this point, Kerry realizes that (insert Kerry's quote here) is not going to work out and so:
(choose one)
1. He immediately requests a transfer back to the frigate.
2. He immediately resigns his commission.
3. He declares himself a conscientious objector.
4. He fulfills the new mission of the Swift boats by running numerous missions, under fire, up various rivers on the Mekong Delta, and earning a Bronze Star, a Silver Star, and three Purple Hearts - all of which, Zumwalt pins to his chest.

Do I have it right?

(edited for the benefit of njbil, who is trying to miss the point)

Now is it right?

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 06:44 PM

It's not my version of the story, it's the mans own friggin words. . Jesus Christ are you all this dense?

I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

Blueflame · 08-10-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njbil

What actions are those? Landing a cushy gig on a Frigate in the Bay of Tonklin then parlaying that into a cushy gig (at the time) skippering a Swift Boat. Operation Sealord changed all that.

Once the **** hit the fan he got his 3 boo boos and bailed. (The only swift boat vet that anyone can come up with that didnt finish his tour and lived) It all makes perfect sense to me.

What actions? He enlisted in the Navy, signed up for a second tour of duty, and volunteered to be deployed to Vietnam, where he served honorably.

Again, I suppose he could have parlayed his way into the National Guard... or served a single tour of duty... or signed the forms requesting not to be deployed to Vietnam... if that quote accurately expresses his sentiments.

Rohirrim · 08-10-2004, 06:57 PM

BTW, nj, what should he have said? "I couldn't wait to get in those Swift boats and ride through the Mekong ripping into those gooks with my fifty cal., taking injuries, seeing death and destruction all around me, taking rocket fire and S.A.s. Bring 'em on."

Only chickenhawks use language like that.

Raider Bill · 08-10-2004, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueflame

What actions? He enlisted in the Navy, signed up for a second tour of duty, and volunteered to be deployed to Vietnam, where he served honorably.

Again, I suppose he could have parlayed his way into the National Guard... or served a single tour of duty... or signed the forms requesting not to be deployed to Vietnam... if that quote accurately expresses his sentiments.

He tried like hell to avoid service and tried to avoid combat.
Christ almighty he was refused a deferment to go to grad school in France.

This whole carefully crafted Kerry = Rambo facade is a load of nonsense.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-11-2004, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

BTW, nj, what should he have said? "I couldn't wait to get in those Swift boats and ride through the Mekong ripping into those gooks with my fifty cal., taking injuries, seeing death and destruction all around me, taking rocket fire and S.A.s. Bring 'em on."

Only chickenhawks use language like that.

watermock · 08-11-2004, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

BTW, nj, what should he have said? "I couldn't wait to get in those Swift boats and ride through the Mekong ripping into those gooks with my fifty cal., taking injuries, seeing death and destruction all around me, taking rocket fire and S.A.s. Bring 'em on."

Only chickenhawks use language like that.

Actually, it's not very far fromt he truth. Kerry wanted a political career and the fastest way to command was to be an idiot commander on a swift boat. He lasted 4 months. His idiotic mantra was to follow the JFK routine.

Go look it up Dimwit. They all threw in to be heros and didn't even have a clue. Kerry was not drafted, he had deferrment, and the idea he threw off going to England like Clinton isn't even close to the truth. Kerry wanted to be a war hero. He managed to be a totally incompetent officer, got out in 4 months, and then went on record as a traitor.

What part of reality don't you get?

watermock · 08-11-2004, 02:24 AM

BlueFlame:

Quote:

What actions? He enlisted in the Navy, signed up for a second tour of duty, and volunteered to be deployed to Vietnam, where he served honorably.

Again, I suppose he could have parlayed his way into the National Guard... or served a single tour of duty... or signed the forms requesting not to be deployed to Vietnam... if that quote accurately expresses his sentiments.

First, he went to Officers School. This idea he served two tours in Vietnam is so idiotic his hillairous. He spent 4 Months, 16 days. That isn't a double tour of duty Blue. He went to officers school. As I have said before, he went to Nam on a bet. You just don't get reality.

Here is reality for you. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO VIETNAM, AND BUSH DIDN'T HAVE TO JOIN THE GUARD, CLINTON WENT TO ENGLAND.

THESE ARE STONE COLD FACTS.

Anyone with half a brain didn't want to get involved in that stupid war that LBJ AND KENNEDY STARTED AND NIXON ENDED.

What is wrong with you people? It wasn't Nixons war! The whole thing was idiotic.

Meanwhile, we have been under attack for 30 years by islamic terrorists and noone seemed to care till the WTC came down. But that is Bush's fault right?

25 years of terrorism and 7 minutes while Bush is talking to children about education turns the balance. Stop being idiots.

Blueflame · 08-11-2004, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njbil

He tried like hell to avoid service and tried to avoid combat.
Christ almighty he was refused a deferment to go to grad school in France.

This whole carefully crafted Kerry = Rambo facade is a load of nonsense.

With all due respect, I emphatically disagree.

While Kerry was perhaps no Rambo (btw, no one has claimed he was

), he served honorably and does not deserve the criticism.

Blueflame · 08-11-2004, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watermock

BlueFlame:

First, he went to Officers School. This idea he served two tours in Vietnam is so idiotic his hillairous. He spent 4 Months, 16 days. That isn't a double tour of duty Blue. He went to officers school. As I have said before, he went to Nam on a bet. You just don't get reality.

Here is reality for you. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO VIETNAM, AND BUSH DIDN'T HAVE TO JOIN THE GUARD, CLINTON WENT TO ENGLAND.

THESE ARE STONE COLD FACTS.

Kerry could have avoided being deployed to Vietnam. He volunteered for the duty, Mock. And I'd like to see some documentation of your oft-repeated claim that he enlisted "on a bet".

If Bush had not joined the TANG, he likely would have been drafted. That's the sole reason his dad pulled strings to jump him to the top of the list for "safe" stateside service far away from any danger.

Clinton went to college on a prestigious scholarship like many other young men at the time who received college deferments.

Meanwhile, Rush Limbaugh couldn't serve due to a cyst on his butt.

Quote:

Anyone with half a brain didn't want to get involved in that stupid war that LBJ AND KENNEDY STARTED AND NIXON ENDED.

What is wrong with you people? It wasn't Nixons war! The whole thing was idiotic.

Meanwhile, we have been under attack for 30 years by islamic terrorists and noone seemed to care till the WTC came down. But that is Bush's fault right?

25 years of terrorism and 7 minutes while Bush is talking to children about education turns the balance. Stop being idiots.

Bush was not talking to children about education during those seven minutes... he sat frozen in place while they read with their teacher. And afterwards he remained in the elementary school an additional 20 minutes.

Blueflame · 08-11-2004, 03:40 AM

The man whose life Kerry saved minces no words regarding the swiftvets...

Shame on the Swift Boat
Veterans for Bush
By JIM RASSMANN
August 10, 2004; Page A10
(See Corrections & Amplifications item below.)
I came to know Lt. John Kerry during the spring of 1969. He and his swift boat crew assisted in inserting our Special Forces team and our Chinese Nung soldiers into operational sites in the Cau Mau Peninsula of South Vietnam. I worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire.
On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life.
While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath.
When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard.
For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John Kerry for saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved the Silver Star for his courage.
It has been many years since I served in Vietnam. I returned home, got married, and spent many years as a deputy sheriff for Los Angeles County. I retired in 1989 as a lieutenant. It has been a long time since I left Vietnam, but I think often of the men who did not come home with us.
I am neither a politician nor an organizer. I am a retired police officer with a passion for orchids. Until January of this year, the only public presentations I made were about my orchid hobby. But in this presidential election, I had to speak out; I had to tell the American people about John Kerry, about his wisdom and courage, about his vision and leadership. I would trust John Kerry with my life, and I would entrust John Kerry with the well-being of our country.
Nobody asked me to join John's campaign. Why would they? I am a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans. I volunteered for his campaign because I have seen John Kerry in the worst of conditions. I know his character. I've witnessed his bravery and leadership under fire. And I truly know he will be a great commander in chief.
Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against the Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out against John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this time their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed not just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. This hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my words and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat.
As John McCain noted, the television ad aired by these veterans is "dishonest and dishonorable." Sen. McCain called on President Bush to condemn the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush ad. Regrettably, the president has ignored Sen. McCain's advice.
Does this strategy of attacking combat Vietnam veterans sound familiar? In 2000, a similar Republican smear campaign was launched against Sen. McCain. In fact, the very same communications group, Spaeth Communications, that placed ads against John McCain in 2000 is involved in these vicious attacks against John Kerry. Texas Republican donors with close ties to George W. Bush and Karl Rove crafted this "dishonest and dishonorable" ad. Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam. They insult and defame all of us who served in Vietnam.
But when the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform. Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame.
Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam 1968-69.
Corrections & Amplifications:
This commentary misstated the name of a group of Vietnam veterans; the correct name is the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...baWGm5,00.html

Rohirrim · 08-11-2004, 06:27 AM

That about closes that down. Thanks Blue.

BTW, Mock, I know you think your hero Nixon courageously "ended" the Vietnam War. Did you also know, he stalled the pull-out till after an election so the fall of Saigon wouldn't reflect badly on him? How many more U.S. soldiers died in that little interim?

In other words, Kerry was absolutely right. The government of Nixon was willing to let Americans die for a mistake just for their own political needs. Not much has changed.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-12-2004, 03:50 PM

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-12-2004, 04:05 PM

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-13-2004, 07:30 PM

TomServo · 08-14-2004, 12:16 AM

After i Promised never to post in the political-war threads......

i Truly belive kerry volonteered(sp) for the war never knowing he'd get so close... he just wanted to get it into his resume, be like his idol JFK.

and after he did, he promptly got three purple hearts and got out. none of which even left a scar i believe. unlike my father who got his throat shot out by the chinese in korea- metal plate in his throat.

and calling all the other swiftboat vets "smearboat vets" is reprehensible, how many purple hearts and bronze and silver stars do They have?

i wasnt there in viet nam but just because 8 vets call kerry a hero doesnt make the 60 - 80- more vets liars?

i salute john kerry and john mcain for their service but i dont want either one as comander in chief.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-14-2004, 12:41 AM

i Truly belive kerry volonteered(sp) for the war never knowing he'd get so close... he just wanted to get it into his resume, be like his idol JFK.

Pure speculation w/o foundation. Moreover, how Kerry actually conducted himself in battle is the most important question, IMO.

and after he did, he promptly got three purple hearts and got out. none of which even left a scar i believe.

You imply here, following the Smear Boat Goons' lead, that Kerry somehow didn't deserve those medals. Bottom line: You don't just ask for these medals--they are awarded to you. So, in essence, you are implying that the US Navy indiscriminately hands out silver stars and purple hearts, and you are thereby impugning all veterans who have received these medals.

and calling all the other swiftboat vets "smearboat vets" is reprehensible

Not at all.

While these men deserve the same respect for their service to country as John Kerry, their politically-motivated attacks on Kerry's service are reprehensible, dishonest, and dishonorable.

just because 8 vets call kerry a hero doesnt make the 60 - 80- more vets liars?

So you're actually trying to claim that only those 8 vets in attendance at the DNC recognize Kerry as a hero? You must not read much. And those "60-80" other vets aren't liars because of the 8 vets who call Kerry a hero--they're liars because their claims about Kerry are fabrications.

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08-10-2004, 06:20 PM	#51
Raider Bill ........ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Southern New Joisey Posts: 4,206	Swift boats weren't involved with combat until AFTER Kerry volunteered for the duty. Look up Operation Sealord the combat operation that changed the scope of combat seen by swift boats.

08-10-2004, 06:23 PM	#52
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697	Are you guys this friggin obtuse.. read the mans quote.. not mine.. It's a godamn direct quote from John Forbes Kerry Are you so thick as to not realize that, even if Kerry said that he didn't want to go to Viet Nam, the fact that he went anyway (and performed in an exemplary and heroic manner) is really the most important point? And you missed Flame's point entirely, i.e., that Kerry didn't have to volunteer for a second tour.

08-10-2004, 06:28 PM	#54
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697	No matter how you slice it, Kerry served in Viet Nam and distinguished himself in combat. Bush used daddy's influence to get into a cush ANG unit so he could avoid Viet Nam--and then he went AWOL. BTW, njbil said on another thread that what either of these two guys did 30 years ago doesn't really matter to him, or words to that effect. If this is the case, then why is he expending so much energy in his campaign to invalidate Kerry's service in Viet Nam?

08-10-2004, 06:32 PM	#56
Raider Bill ........ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Southern New Joisey Posts: 4,206	As far as the deferment being a "hatchet job".. maybe if you're willing to believe that 30 years ago Karl Rove planted a story in the Harvard school paper discussing it thereby thwarting Kerry's chances of winning the 2004 election. Give me a friggin break.

08-10-2004, 06:33 PM	#57
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697	How does your argument jibe with the fact that Kerry volunteered for a second Viet Nam tour?

08-10-2004, 06:44 PM	#60
Raider Bill ........ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Southern New Joisey Posts: 4,206	It's not my version of the story, it's the mans own friggin words. . Jesus Christ are you all this dense? I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry said in a little-noticed contribution to a book of Vietnam reminiscences published in 1986. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling and that's what I thought I was going to be doing."

08-10-2004, 06:57 PM	#62
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	BTW, nj, what should he have said? "I couldn't wait to get in those Swift boats and ride through the Mekong ripping into those gooks with my fifty cal., taking injuries, seeing death and destruction all around me, taking rocket fire and S.A.s. Bring 'em on." Only chickenhawks use language like that.

08-11-2004, 03:40 AM	#69
Blueflame Miss Congeniality Welcome to Peyton's Place Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in my cups... lol Posts: 33,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Randy Gradishar	The man whose life Kerry saved minces no words regarding the swiftvets... Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush By JIM RASSMANN August 10, 2004; Page A10 (See Corrections & Amplifications item below.) I came to know Lt. John Kerry during the spring of 1969. He and his swift boat crew assisted in inserting our Special Forces team and our Chinese Nung soldiers into operational sites in the Cau Mau Peninsula of South Vietnam. I worked with him on many operations and saw firsthand his leadership, courage and decision-making ability under fire. On March 13, 1969, John Kerry's courage and leadership saved my life. While returning from a SEA LORDS operation along the Bay Hap River, a mine detonated under another swift boat. Machine-gun fire erupted from both banks of the river, and a second explosion followed moments later. The second blast blew me off John's swift boat, PCF-94, throwing me into the river. Fearing that the other boats would run me over, I swam to the bottom of the river and stayed there as long as I could hold my breath. When I surfaced, all the swift boats had left, and I was alone taking fire from both banks. To avoid the incoming fire, I repeatedly swam under water as long as I could hold my breath, attempting to make it to the north bank of the river. I thought I would die right there. The odds were against me avoiding the incoming fire and, even if I made it out of the river, I thought I'd be captured and executed. Kerry must have seen me in the water and directed his driver, Del Sandusky, to turn the boat around. Kerry's boat ran up to me in the water, bow on, and I was able to climb up a cargo net to the lip of the deck. But, because I was nearly upside down, I couldn't make it over the edge of the deck. This left me hanging out in the open, a perfect target. John, already wounded by the explosion that threw me off his boat, came out onto the bow, exposing himself to the fire directed at us from the jungle, and pulled me aboard. For his actions that day, I recommended John for the Silver Star, our country's third highest award for bravery under fire. I learned only this past January that the Navy awarded John the Bronze Star with Combat V for his valor. The citation for this award, signed by the Commander of U.S. Naval Forces, Vietnam, Vice Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, read, "Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service." To this day I am grateful to John Kerry for saving my life. And to this day I still believe that he deserved the Silver Star for his courage. It has been many years since I served in Vietnam. I returned home, got married, and spent many years as a deputy sheriff for Los Angeles County. I retired in 1989 as a lieutenant. It has been a long time since I left Vietnam, but I think often of the men who did not come home with us. I am neither a politician nor an organizer. I am a retired police officer with a passion for orchids. Until January of this year, the only public presentations I made were about my orchid hobby. But in this presidential election, I had to speak out; I had to tell the American people about John Kerry, about his wisdom and courage, about his vision and leadership. I would trust John Kerry with my life, and I would entrust John Kerry with the well-being of our country. Nobody asked me to join John's campaign. Why would they? I am a Republican, and for more than 30 years I have largely voted for Republicans. I volunteered for his campaign because I have seen John Kerry in the worst of conditions. I know his character. I've witnessed his bravery and leadership under fire. And I truly know he will be a great commander in chief. Now, 35 years after the fact, some Republican-financed Swift Boat Veterans for Bush are suddenly lying about John Kerry's service in Vietnam; they are calling him a traitor because he spoke out against the Nixon administration's failed policies in Vietnam. Some of these Republican-sponsored veterans are the same ones who spoke out against John at the behest of the Nixon administration in 1971. But this time their attacks are more vicious, their lies cut deep and are directed not just at John Kerry, but at me and each of his crewmates as well. This hate-filled ad asserts that I was not under fire; it questions my words and Navy records. This smear campaign has been launched by people without decency, people who don't understand the bond of those who serve in combat. As John McCain noted, the television ad aired by these veterans is "dishonest and dishonorable." Sen. McCain called on President Bush to condemn the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush ad. Regrettably, the president has ignored Sen. McCain's advice. Does this strategy of attacking combat Vietnam veterans sound familiar? In 2000, a similar Republican smear campaign was launched against Sen. McCain. In fact, the very same communications group, Spaeth Communications, that placed ads against John McCain in 2000 is involved in these vicious attacks against John Kerry. Texas Republican donors with close ties to George W. Bush and Karl Rove crafted this "dishonest and dishonorable" ad. Their new charges are false; their stories are fabricated, made up by people who did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam. They insult and defame all of us who served in Vietnam. But when the noise and fog of their distortions and lies have cleared, a man who volunteered to serve his country, a man who showed up for duty when his country called, a man to whom the United States Navy awarded a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts, will stand tall and proud. Ultimately, the American people will judge these Swift Boat Veterans for Bush and their accusations. Americans are tired of smear campaigns against those who volunteered to wear the uniform. Swift Boat Veterans for Bush should hang their heads in shame. Mr. Rassmann, a retired lieutenant with the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, served with the U.S. Army 5th Special Forces Group in Vietnam 1968-69. Corrections & Amplifications: This commentary misstated the name of a group of Vietnam veterans; the correct name is the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. http://online.wsj.com/article_email/...baWGm5,00.html

08-11-2004, 06:27 AM	#70
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	That about closes that down. Thanks Blue. BTW, Mock, I know you think your hero Nixon courageously "ended" the Vietnam War. Did you also know, he stalled the pull-out till after an election so the fall of Saigon wouldn't reflect badly on him? How many more U.S. soldiers died in that little interim? In other words, Kerry was absolutely right. The government of Nixon was willing to let Americans die for a mistake just for their own political needs. Not much has changed.

08-12-2004, 03:50 PM	#71
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697

08-12-2004, 04:05 PM	#72
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697

08-13-2004, 07:30 PM	#73
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697

08-14-2004, 12:16 AM	#74
TomServo Ring of Famer Dancing is Forbidden! Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,013	After i Promised never to post in the political-war threads...... i Truly belive kerry volonteered(sp) for the war never knowing he'd get so close... he just wanted to get it into his resume, be like his idol JFK. and after he did, he promptly got three purple hearts and got out. none of which even left a scar i believe. unlike my father who got his throat shot out by the chinese in korea- metal plate in his throat. and calling all the other swiftboat vets "smearboat vets" is reprehensible, how many purple hearts and bronze and silver stars do They have? i wasnt there in viet nam but just because 8 vets call kerry a hero doesnt make the 60 - 80- more vets liars? i salute john kerry and john mcain for their service but i dont want either one as comander in chief.

08-14-2004, 12:41 AM	#75
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,697	i Truly belive kerry volonteered(sp) for the war never knowing he'd get so close... he just wanted to get it into his resume, be like his idol JFK. Pure speculation w/o foundation. Moreover, how Kerry actually conducted himself in battle is the most important question, IMO. and after he did, he promptly got three purple hearts and got out. none of which even left a scar i believe. You imply here, following the Smear Boat Goons' lead, that Kerry somehow didn't deserve those medals. Bottom line: You don't just ask for these medals--they are awarded to you. So, in essence, you are implying that the US Navy indiscriminately hands out silver stars and purple hearts, and you are thereby impugning all veterans who have received these medals. and calling all the other swiftboat vets "smearboat vets" is reprehensible Not at all. While these men deserve the same respect for their service to country as John Kerry, their politically-motivated attacks on Kerry's service are reprehensible, dishonest, and dishonorable. just because 8 vets call kerry a hero doesnt make the 60 - 80- more vets liars? So you're actually trying to claim that only those 8 vets in attendance at the DNC recognize Kerry as a hero? You must not read much. And those "60-80" other vets aren't liars because of the 8 vets who call Kerry a hero--they're liars because their claims about Kerry are fabrications.