2000 election stolen debunked, finally.

[Exile_In_SJ]

you are to reasoned debate what Jimmah Carter is to a strong national economy.

[alkemical]

weak!

exile,

why did bush give amnesty to illegals, and why isn't he shutting down the boarders?


but i guess (g-dub catch phrase alert) thinks that it makes america safer!

i know it might be tough for you to come up with answer until you listen to some talking points. i know what i'm asking is difficult (that thinking for yourself thing) -


(neo-cons are fun to poke, almost as fun as neo-libs)

[TexanBob]

Unfortunately, the minute Republicans talk about tightening border controls, the liberals will start using the "r-word" and convince Hispanics to vote Democrat. If you REALLY want to know why our borders are still so porous, that's the reason.

Not that I agree with that strategy but it's obvious on its face that this is what would happen.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

Unfortunately, the minute Republicans talk about tightening border controls, the liberals will start using the "r-word" and convince Hispanics to vote Democrat. If you REALLY want to know why our borders are still so porous, that's the reason.

Not that I agree with that strategy but it's obvious on its face that this is what would happen.

so much for the Bush is his own Man garbage .... Bush doesnt let Polls tell him what to do

[TexanBob]

You can be your own man and still be wise enough to anticipate moves that are politically suicidal.

Any moron can be Ralph Nader.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

You can be your own man and still be wise enough to anticipate moves that are politically suicidal.

Any moron can be Ralph Nader.

Ah I see ...........So Bush is letting the Democrats dictate Policy on the Borders to Bush ......Yep thats a sure sign of being your own man and not being manipulated ............
Lets talk about the Sammy Sosa trade thats easier to defend ............

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by TexanBob

Unfortunately, the minute Republicans talk about tightening border controls, the liberals will start using the "r-word" and convince Hispanics to vote Democrat. If you REALLY want to know why our borders are still so porous, that's the reason.

Not that I agree with that strategy but it's obvious on its face that this is what would happen.

if you want to dance - you'll have to learn more than the two step...

so bush.... giving amnesty to illegals hasn't had a damn thing to do with the increasing influx of illegals, which may also include terrorists - is also the work of dems, right?

sorry txbob - it doesn't fly.

thx for playing though

[alkemical]

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...22/1043/NEWS01



Charles McGee, the former executive director of the New Hampshire Republican State Committee, admitted yesterday to jamming Democratic party phone lines on election day in November 2002.

[TexanBob]

Originally Posted by amesj523

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...22/1043/NEWS01



Charles McGee, the former executive director of the New Hampshire Republican State Committee, admitted yesterday to jamming Democratic party phone lines on election day in November 2002.

Agreed. Reprehensible and should be punished to the full extent of the law, just like the Democrats who faked voter registrations for Indians in South Dakota... the senate race where the Democrat trailed until the very last precinct, from an Indian reservation, that came in three hours after every other vote was counted, which managed to have just enough to give Johnson the come-from-behind victory....should be punished.

If you're trying to point out that Republicans are rank amatuers when it comes to vote fraud and other election day dirty tricks, I certainly agree. Democrats are the H&R Block of vote fraud specialists. That's why they are so upset with electronic voting. They haven't figured out how to rig the system yet. So they do the next best thing which is to accuse Republicans of doing what they want to do.

[alkemical]

nice tx bob,

i guess you support bush for giving amnesty for illegals - since you don't want to answer it, and avoid it - we are going to pin that label on you. You are for giving amnesty to illegals since bush OK'd it.

Hey the electronic voting system is owned by the GOP (former GOP senator) - i'm all against electronic voting, no paper trail, could be hijacked, and maybe not even by anyone in the GOP OR DNC - (ever think of that dingas?)

Nice try TX Bob, but you will have to learn alot more about politics before you can debate with me.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Exile_In_SJ

you often copulate with sheep then?

Yep, i sleep with a republican now and then, republican women are the easiest - usually thier man is too busy watching nascar and drinking beer to realize that someone is fooling around with his woman.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by amesj523

nice tx bob,

i guess you support bush for giving amnesty for illegals - since you don't want to answer it, and avoid it - we are going to pin that label on you. You are for giving amnesty to illegals since bush OK'd it.

Hey the electronic voting system is owned by the GOP (former GOP senator) - i'm all against electronic voting, no paper trail, could be hijacked, and maybe not even by anyone in the GOP OR DNC - (ever think of that dingas?)

Nice try TX Bob, but you will have to learn alot more about politics before you can debate with me.

There are known security flaws in the software Diebold uses...

If the electronic voting machines are so trustworthy, why did the Florida Republican party send out flyers to all of its members recommending that they request absentee ballots?

[alkemical]

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040816&s=dugger
How They Could Steal the Election This Time
by Ronnie Dugger


Print this article
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Take Action Now!

Ronnie Dugger wrote the definitive warning essay about the dangers of computerized vote-counting in The New Yorker of November 7, 1988. Research support was provided by The Nation Institute. Dugger wishes to acknowledge the special assistance of Frances Mendenhall, Pokey Anderson, Peter Neumann, Rebecca Mercuri, Roxanne Jekot and David Jefferson, and his debt to hundreds of other reporters whose work cannot be properly credited here.
n November 2 millions of Americans will cast their votes for President in computerized voting systems that can be rigged by corporate or local-election insiders. Some 98 million citizens, five out of every six of the roughly 115 million who will go to the polls, will consign their votes into computers that unidentified computer programmers, working in the main for four private corporations and the officials of 10,500 election jurisdictions, could program to invisibly falsify the outcomes.


http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/166443-6331-010.html
GOP flier: Don't trust Florida voting machines
Republican Gov. Jeb Bush is irked by mailing telling voters to avoid touch-screen technology.


By Brent Kallestad
Associated Press
July 30, 2004


TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- Republican Gov. Jeb Bush has tried for months to convince Florida voters that touch-screen voting machines are reliable. His own party apparently hasn't gotten the message.

The state GOP paid for a flier critical of the new technology and sent it to some voters in South Florida, where a primary election is scheduled next month.

"The new electronic voting machines do not have a paper ballot to verify your vote in case of a recount," the message states. "Make sure your vote counts. Order your absentee ballot today."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...home-headlines
GOP apologizes over voting flier; glossy mailer warns against touch-screens

By Mark Hollis, Christy McKerney and Jeremy Milarsky
Staff writers
Posted July 30 2004

An embarrassed state Republican Party apologized Thursday for a GOP campaign brochure that urged voters to use absentee ballots, undermining efforts by Gov. Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Glenda Hood to inspire confidence in new touch-screen voting machines.

[alkemical]

Exactly blue -

I'm more worried say... the chinese or someone were to hijack our voting machines (it's bad enough that men in our own country would do such) -

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by amesj523

Exactly blue -

I'm more worried say... the chinese or someone were to hijack our voting machines (it's bad enough that men in our own country would do such) -

This is why the paper trail is so vital... it would be impossible to independently verify a paperless electronic vote tally. Honestly, I have the most confidence, even in this tech-savvy era, in a simple paper ballot with an indelible marking pen. There's too much room for chicanery with computerized voting.

[alkemical]

Blue,

I work in the IT world and know how easy it is to manipulate data without those in the know - knowing what went on.

I'd still rather use a card ballot - than a touchscreen.

Diebold is the co. - i was referring to that had a GOP senator (former) on it's payroll. To me that's biased. One reason i don't think that there should be electronic votes.

[Blueflame]

Originally Posted by amesj523

Blue,

I work in the IT world and know how easy it is to manipulate data without those in the know - knowing what went on.

I'd still rather use a card ballot - than a touchscreen.

Diebold is the co. - i was referring to that had a GOP senator (former) on it's payroll. To me that's biased. One reason i don't think that there should be electronic votes.

Yeah, you're in a profession that has a better vantage point than most to see just how vulnerable "black box voting" is.

Diebold really troubles me... not only have company officials vowed to "deliver the presidency" for the Republicans, but the company and its employees have donated generously to Republican candidates. When the company that makes the voting machines is overtly partisan, it makes the election results inherently suspect, imo.

[TexanBob]

The Nation? You expect me to take seriously an article from The Nation?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That's rich.

Hey, I favor paper trails with voting and eventually it will get done.

I worked as an election judge this spring and received training on electronic voting systems (this wasn't Diebold, it was another company) and I came in with the same suspicions that you do. By the time I saw it in action, I saw that the only way it could be tampered with would be if the programmers themselves did the tampering. First, it's not hooked up to the internet so there's no remote hacking. Secondly, each voting machine keeps its own totals then the master terminal for the precinct which connects the machines keeps its own totals and these totals have to match not only with the individual machine but with the sign up list of people who voted before the machines are disassembled. The master terminal for each precinct has its data written onto a chip. The chips are then tabulated as each are connected into the main tabulation computer at the county office. If needed, these chips could all be recounted.

I'm not saying the whole process is incorruptable and I would like to see some form of paper trail as well (the master terminal does produce a paper tabulation of that precinct's results as well as writing the data on the chip).

I'm convinced the easiest way to scam the system is with main tabulation computer and that would probably mean that our elected officials were complicit.

But let's remember, it's the Democrats who whined about the computer ballots in Florida. Republicans only whined about the bizarre standards Democrats wanted to use for including and excluding ballots.

[alkemical]

lol bob

[RaiderH8r]

Originally Posted by amesj523

weak!

exile,

why did bush give amnesty to illegals, and why isn't he shutting down the boarders?


but i guess (g-dub catch phrase alert) thinks that it makes america safer!

i know it might be tough for you to come up with answer until you listen to some talking points. i know what i'm asking is difficult (that thinking for yourself thing) -


(neo-cons are fun to poke, almost as fun as neo-libs)

Because the illegals come. Through desert and river, over oceans in rigged up shoe boxes, to a land of promise risking their lives every day. Licensing and permitting legal cross-border workers ensures cooperation with US authorities rather than evasion and deceit. Terrorists didn't come up from Mexico to attack in 93 or 2001. They may now, but I doubt it.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Al Gore was the choice of Florida’s voters -- whether one counts hanging chads or dimpled chads. That was the core finding of the eight news organizations that conducted a review of disputed Florida ballots. By any chad measure, Gore won.

Gore won even if one doesn’t count the 15,000-25,000 votes that USA Today estimated Gore lost because of illegally designed “butterfly ballots,” or the hundreds of predominantly African-American voters who were falsely identified by the state as felons and turned away from the polls.

Gore won even if there’s no adjustment for George W. Bush’s windfall of about 290 votes from improperly counted military absentee ballots where lax standards were applied to Republican counties and strict standards to Democratic ones, a violation of fairness reported earlier by the Washington Post and the New York Times.

Put differently, George W. Bush was not the choice of Florida’s voters anymore than he was the choice of the American people who cast a half million more ballots for Gore than Bush nationwide.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Diebold is the co. - i was referring to that had a GOP senator (former) on it's payroll.

Wally isn't simply on Diebold's payroll--he's the chairman of the company.

[watermock]

Stop whining. Damn. Be happy with your new conspiracy theories about DieBold.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[Exile_In_SJ]

Gore won? That's news. Gore lost. fair and square. George Bush is our duly elected President and will soon be in his second term. It just rolls off your tongue so nicely... mmmmmmmm George Bush, President... yeah.