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Old 07-14-2004, 10:18 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by NaptownChief
Unfortunately for guys like you and the media that is more important than being able to read a defense and hit a WR in stride.

Maybe if he worked a little more on trying to complete at least 60% of his passes instead of dunking over the cross bar he might someday break 3400 yards passing and sneak over 20 passing TD's again. But then again Ozzie Smith got in on the first ballot cause of popularity from a back flip so maybe dunking over the cross bar is more important.
What's important to guys like me are wins. Donovan's team has been more successful than Peyton's over the same time period and he's done it with less talented offensive teammates.

Guys like you are all about personal statistics. I'm sure after they were both in the League for about five or six years you were telling everybody who would listen that Marino was better than Elway. We saw how that one played out.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:19 PM   #202
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I would have loved to hear Al Davis when he learned Denver was gonna get Elway, that must have been great
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:24 PM   #203
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I would have loved to hear Al Davis when he learned Denver was gonna get Elway, that must have been great
Oh, hell yeah.......
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:27 PM   #204
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What's important to guys like me are wins. Donovan's team has been more successful than Peyton's over the same time period and he's done it with less talented offensive teammates.

Guys like you are all about personal statistics. I'm sure after they were both in the League for about five or six years you were telling everybody who would listen that Marino was better than Elway. We saw how that one played out.
donovans team has been more talented over the same period than peyton.

unless of course u want to just compare offenses, and then peytons team has been more successful.

notice in both instances the side w/ more talent(eagles overall, colts offensively) ended up doing better.

also the eagles dont lack talent offensively, they lack wr's. they have a plethora of nice lineman, a good rb, good te, good backup qb.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:28 PM   #205
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What's important to guys like me are wins. Donovan's team has been more successful than Peyton's over the same time period and he's done it with less talented offensive teammates.

And vastly superior defensive talent....

QB's can only control themselves and the offensive players around them and Manning is leaps and bounds beyond McNadd. The next QB that can control his own teams defensive ability will be the first I have ever seen.

Philly has had more playoff success because of their defense, plain and simple. Indy has made it to the playoffs despite their defense not because of them.

Based on your thinking Trent Dilfer is an elite QB.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:29 PM   #206
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I would have loved to hear Al Davis when he learned Denver was gonna get Elway, that must have been great
I imagine he probably had the underling who gave him the bad news dragged out back and killed. Then he probably told Al LoCasale he better get the body disposed of quickly if he knew what was good for him.

Then other vile and unspeakable acts, unsuitable to describe in a public forum.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:37 PM   #207
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And vastly superior defensive talent....

QB's can only control themselves and the offensive players around them and Manning is leaps and bounds beyond McNadd. The next QB that can control his own teams defensive ability will be the first I have ever seen.

Philly has had more playoff success because of their defense, plain and simple. Indy has made it to the playoffs despite their defense not because of them.

Based on your thinking Trent Dilfer is an elite QB.
Nice logic. Dilfer had one playoff run where he was completely carried by the best defense of the last ten years.

McNabb's team has advanced in the playoffs all four years he's been a starter.

Manning finally won a playoff game last year, his sixth season in the League. As recently as 2002, a completely healthy Peyton Manning got waxed by an ordinary NY Jets team 41-0 in the first round of the playoffs. Is that some kind of freaking joke?
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:39 PM   #208
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Nice logic. Dilfer had one playoff run where he was completely carried by the best defense of the last ten years.

McNabb's team has advanced in the playoffs all four years he's been a starter.

Manning finally won a playoff game last year, his sixth season in the League. As recently as 2002, a completely healthy Peyton Manning got waxed by an ordinary NY Jets team 41-0 in the first round of the playoffs. Is that some kind of freaking joke?
eagles>colts
manning>mcnabb
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:47 PM   #209
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yavoon's opinion < hill of beans
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:49 PM   #210
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eagles>colts
manning>mcnabb
He seems to lose track of that doesn't he....I don't think the Eagles D has given up 41 points in a game while McNadd has been QB.

He seems to think 3 or 4 failed runs is better than one successful one also. On one hand it is fine to belittle a middle of the road QB for being carried by a defense yet on the other hand he is fine with giving a middle of the road QB the credit for the success of a good defense.

The only difference between Dilfer and McNadd is the defense carrying Dilfer was a little bit better than the one that has been carrying McNadd. It will take a Baltimore Super Bowl D for McNadd to ever have a chance at getting that ring. We saw what he could do last year early on with a banged up less than stellar D bailing him out. It wasn't pretty.
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Old 07-14-2004, 10:54 PM   #211
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He seems to lose track of that doesn't he....I don't think the Eagles D has given up 41 points in a game while McNadd has been QB.

He seems to think 3 or 4 failed runs is better than one successful one also. On one hand it is fine to belittle a middle of the road QB for being carried by a defense yet on the other hand he is fine with giving a middle of the road QB the credit for the success of a good defense.

The only difference between Dilfer and McNadd is the defense carrying Dilfer was a little bit better than the one that has been carrying McNadd. It will take a Baltimore Super Bowl D for McNadd to ever have a chance at getting that ring. We saw what he could do last year early on with a banged up less than stellar D bailing him out. It wasn't pretty.
aren't eagles backup qb's undefeated?
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:02 PM   #212
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aren't eagles backup qb's undefeated?

I believe so...and definitely better numbers. That system and defense made 5th round pick and college back up AJ Feely look damn good. Same crap about McNair meaning so much to his team and they would be nothing without him yet they went 2-0 this year with out of the league Neil O'Donnell and Billy Volek for gawdsakes. People can be made to believe anything...despite the facts.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:05 PM   #213
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aren't eagles backup qb's undefeated?
but that is because they have high caliber back ups like Koy"Paper Boy"Detmer and AJ " I couldn't even start at Oregon" Feely.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:06 PM   #214
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aren't eagles backup qb's undefeated?

That might just display how great McNadd really is....He is so great that he can will a victory from the sidelines even with no experience bums under center. Now that I think about it he is great.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:09 PM   #215
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He seems to lose track of that doesn't he....I don't think the Eagles D has given up 41 points in a game while McNadd has been QB.

He seems to think 3 or 4 failed runs is better than one successful one also. On one hand it is fine to belittle a middle of the road QB for being carried by a defense yet on the other hand he is fine with giving a middle of the road QB the credit for the success of a good defense.

The only difference between Dilfer and McNadd is the defense carrying Dilfer was a little bit better than the one that has been carrying McNadd. It will take a Baltimore Super Bowl D for McNadd to ever have a chance at getting that ring. We saw what he could do last year early on with a banged up less than stellar D bailing him out. It wasn't pretty.

Okay, so the Philly defense was only slightly less ferocious than the 2000 Ravens defense and Trent Dilfer is roughly equal to Donovan McNabb.

From the man who claimed Derrick Mason and Marvin Harrison are essentially the same guy.

Ever consider approaching an argument honestly? Or is the man crush on Peyton simply too intense?
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:12 PM   #216
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I believe so...and definitely better numbers. That system and defense made 5th round pick and college back up AJ Feely look damn good. Same crap about McNair meaning so much to his team and they would be nothing without him yet they went 2-0 this year with out of the league Neil O'Donnell and Billy Volek for gawdsakes. People can be made to believe anything...despite the facts.

Like the fact that Manning took six years to win a playoff game and has never got anywhere near a Super Bowl, but people are already calling him an all time great?

You're right. Mass hype-nosis at its best. Thanks for participating.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:19 PM   #217
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Like the fact that Manning took six years to win a playoff game and has never got anywhere near a Super Bowl, but people are already calling him an all time great?

You're right. Mass hype-nosis at its best. Thanks for participating.
his accomplishments are gawdy. I dont know what ur obsession w/ rating a single person for the success of his/her team w/ zero other considerations. but it seems, well, myopic.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:27 PM   #218
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his accomplishments are gawdy. I dont know what ur obsession w/ rating a single person for the success of his/her team w/ zero other considerations. but it seems, well, myopic.
Why? Because I'm not calling him far and away the best quarterback in the NFL, like you have no problem doing?

Develop a little perspective. Winning important games actually does matter. I had similar arguments with his father's apologists 20 years ago.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:30 PM   #219
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Why? Because I'm not calling him far and away the best quarterback in the NFL, like you have no problem doing?

Develop a little perspective. Winning important games actually does matter. I had similar arguments with his father's apologists 20 years ago.
wouldn't u pick a better example than mcnabb then?!?! I mean saying manning isnt as good as brady holds water. mcnabb tho? man I'm feeling tenuous on that land.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:31 PM   #220
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I can't believe I'm jumping back in here on page 9 of the thread that won't die, but here goes. I and I don't think anyone else in this thread said all-time great, I'm just discussing current NFL QB's. My all time list would be a lot different and we could probably get even more offseason mileage out of that and Manning would not be on it. McNabb is a pretty damn fine QB too. You would concede that he looked every bit as average as Manning when his team was also bounced from the playoffs as well last year, wouldn't you? 0 TD's 3 Picks and a sub 20 QB rating for Donovan if I remember correctly. Both are excellent, and both should only improve for the next several years. Philly pretty much has to run deep this year or I think Andy"The Junior Walrus" Reid is done there. They brought in TO and should just about be out of excuses. Should be a great year for football. I think everyone's wound a little tight since the start of the season is so tantalizingly close, yet so far away.

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Old 07-14-2004, 11:40 PM   #221
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Well, if you research this thread, I haven't come out and said McNabb is a better quarterback than Manning. I do think they're both top five quarterbacks, along with Brady.

I think McNabb's mobility, game management and leadership skills are a big reason the Eagles have been so successful ever since he took over. They had an even better defense with Randall Cunningham in his prime under center and didn't enjoy as much success.

I honestly see a lot of the young John Elway in McNabb and that's one of the reasons I enjoy watching him. Like Naptown and some others who admire Manning's public image, I'm also impressed by the way Donovan has carried himself with class and composure from the first second he was booed into the League by Eagle fans on Draft Day.

I'm looking forward to seeing McNabb completely healthy after the broken ankle two years ago, with a true big play receiver at the height of his powers like Terrell Owens on his side.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:41 PM   #222
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How many starting NFL QB's have rings? There's Brady, B-rad Johnson, Favre and probably Warner for at least the 1st month or 2 of the season. Am I missing anyone else? Dilfer will be backing up in SEA again, but that's it that I can remember.

It's just not that easy to do. As a Bronco Fan I just shudder when I hear the "can't win the big game" argument used on QB's. We had to put up with that crap for 14 seasons and it's just not fair to the team or the player. It's funny how many of us will dust that nugget off and use it after John got his, but protested the loudest when used against us in the past. Human nature I guess.

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Old 07-14-2004, 11:49 PM   #223
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I can't believe I'm jumping back in here on page 9 of the thread that won't die, but here goes. I and I don't think anyone else in this thread said all-time great, I'm just discussing current NFL QB's. My all time list would be a lot different and we could probably get even more offseason mileage out of that and Manning would not be on it. McNabb is a pretty damn fine QB too. You would concede that he looked every bit as average as Manning when his team was also bounced from the playoffs as well last year, wouldn't you? 0 TD's 3 Picks and a sub 20 QB rating for Donovan if I remember correctly. Both are excellent, and both should only improve for the next several years. Philly pretty much has to run deep this year or I think Andy"The Junior Walrus" Reid is done there. They brought in TO and should just about be out of excuses. Should be a great year for football. I think everyone's wound a little tight since the start of the season is so tantalizingly close, yet so far away.

Ron
I'll tell you what I thought really sucked. McNabb completely racks up his ankle against Arizona in 2002. He refuses X-rays and throws five touchdown passes on a broken ankle. He rushes back for the playoffs, leads his team to a first round victory and then gets abused by the eventual Champion Buccaneers.

Last year, still slowed by the injury, he and the entire Eagle team look like crap the first two weeks to start the season and suddenly its total bedlam. Limbaugh and everybody else start freaking out. I think its fair to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, especially when mobility is such a big part of his game. Now that he's healthy and he's got a true number one receiver, like you said, no excuse for him not to have a big season. With all the losses on the Eagles defense the last couple years, they're going to get into more shootouts this year anyway. More chances for McNabb to air it out and lord knows Owens will be calling for the football from day one.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:52 PM   #224
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How many starting NFL QB's have rings? There's Brady, B-rad Johnson, Favre and probably Warner for at least the 1st month or 2 of the season. Am I missing anyone else? Dilfer will be backing up in SEA again, but that's it that I can remember.

It's just not that easy to do. As a Bronco Fan I just shudder when I hear the "can't win the big game" argument used on QB's. We had to put up with that crap for 14 seasons and it's just not fair to the team or the player. It's funny how many of us will dust that nugget off and use it after John got his, but protested the loudest when used against us in the past. Human nature I guess.

Ron
I think you're confused. There's a difference between not winning the Big Game and not winning playoff games. If you disagree with me, let me introduce you to my little friend.
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Old 07-14-2004, 11:57 PM   #225
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Your little friend has a super bowl ring doesn't he?

Hahahhahahahahahaha.
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