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Old 07-14-2004, 04:43 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Jason in LA
As for Brady, I've said it a number of times, he's pretty good, but he's very overrated. He gets more credit than he deserves. He's the only star on that team, but he's a star because the media has made him that. The Pats D goes out and wins the game, and Brady gets most of the credit. In 5 of the 6 playoff wins for the Pats, Brady was a total non-factor. Only this past Super Bowl Brady had a big game. I think at least 7 or 8 QBs could have won the Super Bowl with the Pats. Great D and a very low risk, dink and dunk offense. Brady is good, but I wouldn't even think of putting him in the top 5.
This is great debate stuff.

I disagree that the Pats would've won last year with 7 or 8 other possible QBs. Tom has marched us down the field so many times now at the end of games it's no fluke. Drew never had that composure.

Tom's a very cool customer and makes good decisions. Troy Brown is the only bona-fide go-to guy he had. He had no big WR to throw at and our TEs and RBs were average.

So, if the Pats repeat will it be because he finally got a running game with Dillon?

I see your point - and you are by no means the only one that says that - but the guy gets it done. Sometimes it's the things he doesn't do that makes him so valuable.
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Old 07-14-2004, 04:47 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by PatsWin2002
This is great debate stuff.

I disagree that the Pats would've won last year with 7 or 8 other possible QBs. Tom has marched us down the field so many times now at the end of games it's no fluke. Drew never had that composure.

Tom's a very cool customer and makes good decisions. Troy Brown is the only bona-fide go-to guy he had. He had no big WR to throw at and our TEs and RBs were average.

So, if the Pats repeat will it be because he finally got a running game with Dillon?

I see your point - and you are by no means the only one that says that - but the guy gets it done. Sometimes it's the things he doesn't do that makes him so valuable.

yea, i dont see the overrated comparison. Brady is mobile, hasnt had a running game for the last 2 or 3 years and generally makes good decisions. with dillon coming into the mix its only going to make Brady that much better. he wont know what to do with himself now that he has a running game.
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Old 07-14-2004, 04:52 PM   #103
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Talk about reaching, did I say "Loser"?? No, I said arrogant.....again, since when does grace and humility reflect self-doubt or a lack of belief in ones self??

Elway never said such things...he didn't have to....guess he didn't believe in himself, did he?
You didn't say loser, but they guy sure is being villified for this and I think a lot of it is unfair. This seems a little overboard to me, he's taking more heat for saying he's the best QB then Seau did for making racist and anti-gay remarks.
Maybe all Peyton needs to do is work on his cliches like Nuke LaLoosh. Then everyone would be happy.

"Gotta play 'em one game at a time"
"I'm just happy to be here, hope I can help the team"

That's all I'm trying to say. He was asked a question and he responded. Does anyone remember when Portis was on the Hot Seat?

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Old 07-14-2004, 04:56 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by PatsWin2002
This is great debate stuff.

I disagree that the Pats would've won last year with 7 or 8 other possible QBs. Tom has marched us down the field so many times now at the end of games it's no fluke. Drew never had that composure.

Tom's a very cool customer and makes good decisions. Troy Brown is the only bona-fide go-to guy he had. He had no big WR to throw at and our TEs and RBs were average.

So, if the Pats repeat will it be because he finally got a running game with Dillon?

I see your point - and you are by no means the only one that says that - but the guy gets it done. Sometimes it's the things he doesn't do that makes him so valuable.
Ugghh, seeing Dillon in a Patriot uni makes that team pretty scary heading into camp. They are going to be good, very good. They have a bit of the '98 Broncos aura surrounding them. Now they are a solid team in all facets of the game.

BTW, what was all the flap with Brady and his free Caddy after winning the SB MVP about?

Ron
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:02 PM   #105
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Does anyone remember when Portis was on the Hot Seat?

Ron
Never thought I'd quote my own post, but here goes:

When Portis was on the Hot Seat he said................

That he was the best dressed player in the NFL

Can you believe that crap? What a jerk!

Ron
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:04 PM   #106
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no way. for starters, Peyton has had a much better offesive line and better wideouts than Mcnair has. secondly, there were many times when Mcnair had to get out of trouble much like John in his heyday just to avoid many sacks. Peyton has no mobility whatsover. Peyton is good, but not THAT good.

That is complete garbage. McNair has had some very good offensive lines. Brad Hopkins has been a top notch tackle who has been with him most of his career. Jon Runyan was paired up with Hopkins for several years. Bruce Mathews was on that line for many of the years. Stepnowski came in while still on top of his game. He has had some damn good O Lines. Very solid RB in George a top receiving TE in Wycheck, pro bowl WR in Derrick Mason and a damn good defense keeping scores down and rarely putting him in a position to have to press to keep up.

The Colts O line lead the league in sacks allowed the season before he got there. With virtually no change in the personnel they were among the best in sacks surrendered with Manning under center. Purely cause of his ability to know the offense, the opponents defense and get rid of the ball quickly. That O Line has had zero Pro Bowl players on it. T.Glenn is the closest and he isn't anything special. Manning makes those guys look good, not the other way around. A couple years ago the Colts D gave up an NFL record 31 points per game. If McNair was put in a position to where he had to try and score 32 points just to have a chance to win it would be ugly.

As for the receivers, Manning has had bums like Torrance Small, Terrence Wilkins, Jerome Pathon and journeyman chumps like that as his number 2 WR's most of his career. Harrison is all he has had. Yet the one game Harrison missed was against the Jets and Manning threw for 400 yards and won the game. In addition James blew out his knee and since then has had rookie free agents in the backfield most of the time.

If Manning were throwing to Mason and McNair to Harrison I have a hunch that Mason would be in the elite 3 of WR's instead of Harrison. That is just my opinion but your opinion about McNair having far less talent around him is factually dead wrong.

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Old 07-14-2004, 05:09 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Goobzilla
You didn't say loser, but they guy sure is being villified for this and I think a lot of it is unfair. This seems a little overboard to me, he's taking more heat for saying he's the best QB then Seau did for making racist and anti-gay remarks.
Maybe all Peyton needs to do is work on his cliches like Nuke LaLoosh. Then everyone would be happy.

"Gotta play 'em one game at a time"
"I'm just happy to be here, hope I can help the team"

That's all I'm trying to say. He was asked a question and he responded. Does anyone remember when Portis was on the Hot Seat?

Ron
I don't like bombastic, arrogant players....everyone here knows how I felt about the Manning's and Portis's of the sports world....my disdain for that type of player is very well documented.

I do have a problem with your statements about how someone who is modest and shows grace and humility somehow has no confidence or belief in himself just because he decides to be humble and not spout off about his abilities, even if questioned about them....I don't agree with your take at all on that.

Manning lost me as a fan awhile ago for a few reasons.....I'm not denying his abilities by saying that, not by a long shot...I'm just saying that I don't care for him or his attitude.

As I said before...it wouldn't bother me at all to see him have a subpar year by throwing a lot of INTs and tasting a lot of turf this year....the only thing I like about arrogant players is watching them self-destruct on the field over the course of a season....it may not happen all that often, but all seems right with the world when it does.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:16 PM   #108
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Manning lost me as a fan awhile ago for a few reasons.....I'm not denying his abilities by saying that, not by a long shot...I'm just saying that I don't care for him or his attitude.

As I said before...it wouldn't bother me at all to see him have a subpar year by throwing a lot of INTs and tasting a lot of turf this year....the only thing I like about arrogant players is watching them self-destruct on the field over the course of a season....it may not happen all that often, but all seems right with the world when it does.

Am I missing something or you drinking heavily tonight? You are taking this twisted out of context "Hot Seat" comment as him being arrogant and a "attitude" player? Manning carries himself as one of the more down to earth, classier guys in the league. You know very little about him if you think otherwise.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:22 PM   #109
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Am I missing something or you drinking heavily tonight? You are taking this twisted out of context "Hot Seat" comment as him being arrogant and a "attitude" player? Manning carries himself as one of the more down to earth, classier guys in the league. You know very little about him if you think otherwise.
You're missing something.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:28 PM   #110
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take away any of Peytons wideouts and plug in some average wides and see how well he does. Manning gets a LOT of help from his offense, not just a little. .

Do you watch football or just hang on on BB's and talk about subject you know painfully little about?

His primary RB's the past two years has been a slowed and bad wheeled E.James, undrafted rookie free agents James Mungro and Dominck Rhodes. His WR's consist of an excellent Marvin Harrison, a very average NFL starter in Reggie Wayne(does have potential to be very good IMO), journeyman Brandon Stokely(who has mostly been hurt) and journeyman Trent Walters.

Yeah, just take away all those "great" WR's and plug in some "average" ones and he would surely struggle.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:28 PM   #111
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I think you guys are missing the point of the hot seat. They are supposed to ask those tough questions, and they are supposed to be answered. It's like a forum for these guys to answer these type of questions and not get roasted for it. If Manning said this to some beat writers then I could see it blowing up in his face. But on this segment of the show, he's not supposed to shy away from questions. If these guys did, then what would be the point of having the hot seat?
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:33 PM   #112
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You're missing something.

That is for certain....intelligent comments from many people on this thread.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:33 PM   #113
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You can see right through the arrogant smuck.. he has got the smug billick expression at all times.. its crystal clear what he thinks of himself just by looking at him..
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:35 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Hogan11
I don't like bombastic, arrogant players....everyone here knows how I felt about the Manning's and Portis's of the sports world....my disdain for that type of player is very well documented.

I do have a problem with your statements about how someone who is modest and shows grace and humility somehow has no confidence or belief in himself just because he decides to be humble and not spout off about his abilities, even if questioned about them....I don't agree with your take at all on that.

Manning lost me as a fan awhile ago for a few reasons.....I'm not denying his abilities by saying that, not by a long shot...I'm just saying that I don't care for him or his attitude.

As I said before...it wouldn't bother me at all to see him have a subpar year by throwing a lot of INTs and tasting a lot of turf this year....the only thing I like about arrogant players is watching them self-destruct on the field over the course of a season....it may not happen all that often, but all seems right with the world when it does.
I'm saying that an Elite player in the NFL or most sports that are "humble" are usually lying. Sorry, maybe lying is too harsh. They are saying what they think people want them to hear by giving canned responses. It's a PR-driven world and we wouldn't want to hurt replica jersey sales.

Do you not think you are the best at what you do where you work? I do.

If I couldn't answer yes truthfully would I work on whatever was keeping me from being able to answer yes? Damn skippy.

Would I say it out loud? Probably not. Look at the crap I'd be taking for it.

If you don't have "the Fire" for what ever it is you do (NFL QB, Dog Groomer, Insurance Salesman, whatever) and the drive to succeed, then you will never reach your full potential. The cardinal sin commited here was that he said it and people overheard it. Manning is cool by me. I take him over most of the wife beatin', drug usin', 5 babies with 5 women havin' derelicts in the NFL. He's very active in the community and a stand up guy. Works for me.

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Old 07-14-2004, 05:35 PM   #115
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its not the comment that irritates me its his whole attitude in general
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:36 PM   #116
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You can see right through the arrogant smuck.. he has got the smug billick expression at all times.. its crystal clear what he thinks of himself just by looking at him..

It is quite apparent that beat down a$$ whoppin he put on you chumps in the playoffs has left an awfully nasty taste in your mouths.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:37 PM   #117
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I think you guys are missing the point of the hot seat. They are supposed to ask those tough questions, and they are supposed to be answered. It's like a forum for these guys to answer these type of questions and not get roasted for it. If Manning said this to some beat writers then I could see it blowing up in his face. But on this segment of the show, he's not supposed to shy away from questions. If these guys did, then what would be the point of having the hot seat?

Precisely...He could have said "I'm pretty good but there's alot of good QB's in this league" and this thread would have never existed. But where's the fun in that?

Ron
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:42 PM   #118
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It is quite apparent that beat down a$$ whoppin he put on you chumps in the playoffs has left an awfully nasty taste in your mouths.

I havent liked amnning for a long time.. yes I am heated about the whoopin we took but I place the blame on the broncos for that loss. Manning was hot but our d sucked..

at least we smoked them a week earlier (what about the your so called team)

The whole thing with Eli and san diego.. its just wrong. He should have been honored to play in the nfl, to get the chance to prove himself.. thats the point of the draft otherwise agents would be recruiting not the scouts..
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:44 PM   #119
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then to get daddy to step in and demand san diego pass him up.. the whole family is spoiled and need a good dose of tuff reality upside their head
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:45 PM   #120
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The whole thing with Eli and san diego.. its just wrong. He should have been honored to play in the nfl, to get the chance to prove himself.. thats the point of the draft otherwise agents would be recruiting not the scouts..
I'm looking for karma to catch up with Eli in a big way this year
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:48 PM   #121
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I havent liked amnning for a long time.. yes I am heated about the whoopin we took but I place the blame on the broncos for that loss. Manning was hot but our d sucked..

at least we smoked them a week earlier (what about the your so called team)

The whole thing with Eli and san diego.. its just wrong. He should have been honored to play in the nfl, to get the chance to prove himself.. thats the point of the draft otherwise agents would be recruiting not the scouts..
So how do you think Elway became a Bronco? Might be time for history lesson. Don't get me wrong, I'm overjoyed he stood up to Irsay & Kush back then, but just making a point.

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Old 07-14-2004, 05:49 PM   #122
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I'm looking for karma to catch up with Eli in a big way this year
me to.. but of cource he will just call daddy to come in and bench warner cuz its not fair! little eli wants to play! boo hoo hoo
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:51 PM   #123
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The whole thing with Eli and san diego.. its just wrong. He should have been honored to play in the nfl, to get the chance to prove himself.. thats the point of the draft otherwise agents would be recruiting not the scouts..

There are NFL players have brothers in prison for various horrible crimes. I don't hold that against them, I'm sure the hell not going to judge Peyton cause his brother didn't want to play for the Bolts. Considering Marty's recent history with QB's I don't blame him for not wanting to play for them either. A $hit OL, zero at WR and a well below average defense. And then have to listen to guys like you talk about how horrible a pick he was.
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:52 PM   #124
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yes I know the story I was young then and didnt even know the rules of draft.. I look back and I am glad we got him but yet I dont agree with..oh well at least he didnt call his dad to try and pull strings for him.. and he had a legitimate excuse.. Indiana sucks
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Old 07-14-2004, 05:54 PM   #125
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So how do you think Elway became a Bronco? Might be time for history lesson. Don't get me wrong, I'm overjoyed he stood up to Irsay & Kush back then, but just making a point.

Ron

Come on Ron, they are men of principles....when it's convenient.
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