When I was a little boy...

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by listopencil

The War on Drugs

The so-called "War on Drugs" is a grave threat to individual liberty, to domestic order and to peace in the world; furthermore, it has provided a rationale by which the power of the state has been expanded to restrict greatly our right to privacy and to be secure in our homes.

We call for the repeal of all laws establishing criminal or civil penalties for the use of drugs and of "anti-crime" measures restricting individual rights to be secure in our persons, homes, and property, or limiting our rights to keep and bear arms.

Yep, I wonder how you'd feel when the local crackhead broke into your home and killed your family for being there while trying to rob you blind so he could get money for his legal crack habit.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by listopencil

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms

The Bill of Rights recognizes that an armed citizenry is essential to a free society. We affirm the right to keep and bear arms and oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, regulating, or requiring the ownership, manufacture, transfer, or sale of firearms or ammunition. We oppose all laws requiring registration of firearms or ammunition. We also oppose any government efforts to ban or restrict the use of tear gas, "mace," or other self-protection devices. We further oppose all attempts to ban weapons or ammunition on the grounds that they are risky or unsafe.

We support repeal of the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968, and we demand the immediate abolition of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

We favor the repeal of laws banning the concealment of weapons or prohibiting pocket weapons. We also oppose the banning of inexpensive handguns ("Saturday night specials"), and semi-automatic or so-called assault weapons and their magazines or feeding devices

Again I wonder what your position would be if your family was killed by an automatic weapon like a Mac-10 that has no useful purpose other than to spray massive amounts of bullets in a small area at a terrible accuracy rate. Not exactly "hunting" material there is it.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

Yep, I wonder how you'd feel when the local crackhead broke into your home and killed your family for being there while trying to rob you blind so he could get money for his legal crack habit.

I wouldn't feel too bad when I came home to find that my wife had shot said crackhead in the skull before he ever got the chance to do anything. Assuming that the government doesn't amend the Constitution to take away my right to keep and bear arms of course. But no one would be silly enough to rewrite the Constitution in this day and age would they? Oh...that's right...Bush is that silly.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

Again I wonder what your position would be if your family was killed by an automatic weapon like a Mac-10 that has no useful purpose other than to spray massive amounts of bullets in a small area at a terrible accuracy rate. Not exactly "hunting" material there is it.

I would feel the same as when my family member was killed with a knife. It's the murderer's fault, not the weapon's. Punish the ones who are actually commiting crimes rather than trying to take something away from law abiding citizens.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Robb

I'm about to staple Listo to the Orange Mane bulletin board.

Did you type that yourself or did you copy-and-paste that from somewhere?

[Mile High Shack]

I seriously can't read all of that...my attention span isn't long enough anymore

when I was a little boy I had nintendo and it ruined my attention span......

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by listopencil

I wouldn't feel too bad when I came home to find that my wife had shot said crackhead in the skull before he ever got the chance to do anything. Assuming that the government doesn't amend the Constitution to take away my right to keep and bear arms of course. But no one would be silly enough to rewrite the Constitution in this day and age would they? Oh...that's right...Bush is that silly.

so you are positive that your wife will have a gun handy in the event of a break in, be capable of killing another person without hesitation and without remorse?

I will get to the bear arms comment in a moment.

[Rock Chalk]

Originally Posted by listopencil

I would feel the same as when my family member was killed with a knife. It's the murderer's fault, not the weapon's. Punish the ones who are actually commiting crimes rather than trying to take something away from law abiding citizens.

Yes indeed it is the murderer's fault. But killing with a Mac-10 is a lot easier than with a knife.

Im not for banning all firearms. Hell if you've seen the "Post Your Pic" thread I have proof of that (being as that I have a collection of firearms and ammunition for them). I am however for the banning of firearms designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings without regard to innocence. While any firearm may be used as such, assault weapons have no purpose OTHER than killing human beings.

Hunters do not use them to shoot the local dove and/or deer population.

[baja]

What about a flock of dove?

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

so you are positive that your wife will have a gun handy in the event of a break in, be capable of killing another person without hesitation and without remorse?

I will get to the bear arms comment in a moment.

Yep. We moved to a small town (away from Sacramento) when we started popping kids out left and right. We did that so we wouldn't have to keep loaded weapons immediately accessible. But that's a choice we made because we have children in our household. We have arranged our work schedules so that one of us is always off, one of us is always home with the kids. Neither I nor my wife would hesitate to kill in order to defend ourselves and our children. She's actually a bit more cold blooded than I am in that respect.

[baja]

[Hogan11]

Robb is a great example of why an ignore feature is absolutely necessary.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by AlecRaenos

Yes indeed it is the murderer's fault. But killing with a Mac-10 is a lot easier than with a knife.

Im not for banning all firearms. Hell if you've seen the "Post Your Pic" thread I have proof of that (being as that I have a collection of firearms and ammunition for them). I am however for the banning of firearms designed for the sole purpose of killing human beings without regard to innocence. While any firearm may be used as such, assault weapons have no purpose OTHER than killing human beings.

Hunters do not use them to shoot the local dove and/or deer population.

I understand the difference between a fully automatic weapon and one that is designed for hunting. Banning them doesn't solve the problem, though. Making something illegal doesn't make it go away.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by baja fan

What about a flock of dove?

Well, see, you have a point there. How can you kill a flock of birds without a fully auto weapon? Seriously though, shotgun.

[Robb]

One of the blessings of parenthood is that God mercifully seems to grant us a second chance to relive our childhood in some ways, we re experience, traumas, forgive, and heal the wounds of our youth, to become whole. Homeschooling offers an exquisite opportunity for this healing. I think Listo could have used this healing. Maybe listo was sent to Catholic boarding school at the tender age of five, and grew up for the next five years in the hands of frustrated impatient nuns from Hades. Maybe list memories are mostly outrageous and injustices, like being forced to stand in a corner with the spiders if she didn't finish her meal or committed some other imagined offensive. Maybe she grew up, those convent years receded from her mind, but something has made their mark on Listos soul. Years back, while discussing whether to send our child to private school or to homeschool, public school has never been on the table, I am responsible. Who has a better right to teach them than me? Let that truth penetrate your mind, and Pierce your heart. I can say the homeschooling has been a journey, sometimes bumpy, occasionally tumultuous, but overall a wonderful, painful, well-planned, spontaneous, serene and rollicking adventure. But it's not just about better curriculum and protecting your kids from school shooters, lesbian poetry and jihad studies. It's a way of life for the entire family. I've watched as every family member has grown in character, I have filled gaps in my own educations by teaching, and learning, history, geography, literature, science, math and more. And I have even forgiven the nuns for their thoughtless cruel discipline to Listo. But more deeply, and ultimately more importantly, the homeschooling experience is sewing our family together as a unit. For the family that learns to learn together, work together and play together is the family where the siblings become best friends for life, and their families become a rock, a powerful godly subculture, to which they can always return for guidance and rest. As for my boyhood question, is that all there is? It has been answered most graciously. A gentle and progressive unfolding of understanding from that "other dimension" beyond time and space. With Jesus as my compass, and guided by the Scriptures, the blueprint for our character, shown with exquisite clarity in the life and words of Jesus Christ, I hope, like every Christian dad hopes, to lead my wife and child safely toward that distant shore. After all, we are Pilgrims. "And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up."

[Moon§hiner]

I just hope they don't ban dynamite....that's going to ruin the weekend fishing trips with me and my dad

[listopencil]

Thomas Jefferson:

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.


SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short

[listopencil]

Nice fantasy life, Robb. Here, let me try. I can imagine that you cowered in the corner of your bedroom as a child while your Mom gave sexual favors to every passing merchant. The paperboy, the milkman, the mailman, etc. I bet she ran and grabbed her Bible after every consumation. She probably begged you to pray with her for her own immortal soul and as a way a way of explaining her indescretions as sin, no fault of her own. You grew into a boy haunted by his own dark past, clinging to your religion as a way of keeping yourself clean and pure, demanding that Christ save you from yourself. Now you see indendant thinkers and are scared, secretly jealous of their ability to make decisions based solely on their own principles. Principles unfettered by the brainwashing of overzealous parents determined to find someone, anyone to blame for their shortcomings. Poor Robb.

[listopencil]

Jefferson again:

Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.

[listopencil]

More Jefferson:

The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

[listopencil]

Also Adams:

The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.

[listopencil]

Here's Thomas Paine:

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).

Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).

It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.

Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and you will have sins in abundance.

The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.

[listopencil]

Finally let's hear from James Madison:

What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.

[listopencil]

Among those who confuse Christianity with the founding of America, the rise of conservative Baptists is one of the more interesting developments. The Baptists believed God's authority came from the people, not the priesthood, and they had been persecuted for this belief. It was they—the Baptists—who were instrumental in securing the separation of church and state. They knew you can not have a "one-way wall" that lets religion into government but that does not let it out. They knew no religion is capable of handling political power without becoming corrupted by it. And, perhaps, they knew it was Christ himself who first proposed the separation of church and state: Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto the Lord that which is the Lord's.

In the last five years the Baptists have been taken over by a fundamentalist faction that insists authority comes from the Bible and that the individual must accept the interpretation of the Bible from a higher authority. These usurpers of the Baptist faith are those who insist they should meddle in the affairs of the government and it is they who insist the government should meddle in the beliefs of individuals.

The price of Liberty is constant vigilance. Religious fundamentalism and zealous patriotism have always been the forces which require the greatest attention.

[listopencil]

Oh, By the way:

Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote:

Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed.