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Old 07-19-2014, 07:57 AM   #126
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Besides what's your point that Obama is smart to follow a Bush blueprint on Putin and Russia? That wouldn't be smart because Bush Jr was fooled badly by Putin. Bush was naive and felt he could just be down to earth with Putin, shake his had, have a drink, and then they would be great friends.

Pointing out Bush/Putin/Georgia just is more ammo for saying Obama needs to make a stand.

Obama needs to make a deal with Israel to stop the invasion. Somehow. Then tell Erdogan in Turkey we will give him credit for it in exchange for closing the Bosphoros to Russian military ships. That's how you work this ****, not sitting around saying we are leading from behind and threatening with sanctions Putin doesn't care about.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:02 AM   #127
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Besides what's your point that Obama is smart to follow a Bush blueprint on Putin and Russia? That wouldn't be smart because Bush Jr was fooled badly by Putin. Bush was naive and felt he could just be down to earth with Putin, shake his had, have a drink, and then they would be great friends.

Pointing out Bush/Putin/Georgia just is more ammo for saying Obama needs to make a stand.

Obama needs to make a deal with Israel to stop the invasion. Somehow. Then tell Erdogan in Turkey we will give him credit for it in exchange for closing the Bosphoros to Russian military ships. That's how you work this ****, not sitting around saying we are leading from behind and threatening with sanctions Putin doesn't care about.
My point is you have a dbl standard.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:07 AM   #128
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The Bosphorus str8 is only half of a mile wide. Russia would not go to war over it because quite frankly they would lose bad to Turkey in that region. He couldn't even send a warship near it because of Turkey's land based defenses.

It would be a great move for Obama to get Turkey to go along with it but to do it you probably have to let them wipe out the Kurds in Iraq. Or at least put them in big time check.

But anyone who thinks Russia has a right to way over the Bosphoros is just buying Putins BS. It is firmly Turkish waters and land. It's too narrow to force a country to let warships go through. Turkey does it out of courtesy.
Wipe the Kurds out in Iraq? The Turkish government just floated the idea of a separate state for the Kurds in Iraq. And who says it's not Turkey's right to close the Bosporus, other than you? Nobody. Man. You're just slinging turds in all directions. Did Ukraine fight for Crimea? Why not? And now you want Turkey to fight for it? Or the U.S.?

Did Russia shoot down the plane, or did Russian separatists? Were they under the direct control of Putin's government, or acting alone? We don't know, but let's escalate anyway? Why? Because we are the Lord's chosen empire on Earth with the responsibility to impose our manifest destiny on all peoples?

Once again, an event happens in the world and what does half of our government do about it? Why, they use it as an excuse to attack our president. No wonder Putin thinks we're weak. We are incapable of presenting a united front. The best thing Putin has going for him in the U.S. is the Republican Party. No matter what he does, he knows they'll use it to attack Obama.

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Old 07-19-2014, 08:52 AM   #129
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If Turkey wants a Kurdish state then give it to them in exchange for closing the straight. it's the worlds responsibility to stand up to Russian aggression.

The rebels are backed by Putin, are there because of Putin, got the missiles from Russia, yes I would say the Russians are directly responsible. Turkey has an obligation to NATO that Obama could use.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:53 AM   #130
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Obama was on tape telling Putin once I win re-election i will have a lot of flexibility. I guess I know what he was talking about now.
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:55 AM   #131
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My point is you have a dbl standard.
Show me where I said Bush shouldn't have stood up to Putin? He should have, but it wasn't until after Bush tried to be friends with him that he showed his true colors.

Obama just doubling down on a bunch of bad policies and you think it's fine because Bush made the same mistakes? I think that makes you the one with the double standard.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:00 AM   #132
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Show me where I said Bush shouldn't have stood up to Putin? He should have, but it wasn't until after Bush tried to be friends with him that he showed his true colors.

Obama just doubling down on a bunch of bad policies and you think it's fine because Bush made the same mistakes? I think that makes you the one with the double standard.
Hows that US war to liberate the Iraqi people working out for them?
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:27 AM   #133
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If Turkey wants a Kurdish state then give it to them in exchange for closing the straight. it's the worlds responsibility to stand up to Russian aggression.

The rebels are backed by Putin, are there because of Putin, got the missiles from Russia, yes I would say the Russians are directly responsible. Turkey has an obligation to NATO that Obama could use.
A Kurdish state is not ours to give. You have kind of a Wizard of Oz idea of America.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:30 AM   #134
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Sorry but in Georgia those areas of S. Ossetia had been under defacto Russian control for 15 yrs before the 2008 violence erupted. Much different then Crimea and the Ukraine.
How is that different? More than half the people of Crimea are Russians and have always been. Crimea was a part of Russia since late 18th century.
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Old 07-19-2014, 09:33 AM   #135
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How is that different? More than half the people of Crimea are Russians and have always been. Crimea was a part of Russia since late 18th century.
Let's not let facts get in the way of Cut Them Down's World War III
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:10 PM   #136
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Reminds me of how England and France acted as Hitler took territory he called German land!

Bunch of Americans just hiding in a cave hoping Putin stops at some point.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #137
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A Kurdish state is not ours to give. You have kind of a Wizard of Oz idea of America.
Wow you just called America a fraud. Comparing our country to the fake Wizard of Oz who had no real power.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:20 PM   #138
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They're just struggling over at Fox right now to find a way to blame this on Obama. Don't worry. Give them a day or two and they'll slap together a solid propaganda narrative that they'll all be able to recite word for word.

The weakest, most ineffective president in American history, yet wise and cunning enough to pull off an international conspiracy that culminates with the shooting down of a Malaysian jet. It's so hard to stick to a narrative.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:29 PM   #139
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Reminds me of how England and France acted as Hitler took territory he called German land!

Bunch of Americans just hiding in a cave hoping Putin stops at some point.

Have you met Cito yet, you should get together.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:42 PM   #140
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Lets all hope there is no WWIII.

"In the nuclear world, the true enemy is war itself" - Commander Hunter

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Old 07-19-2014, 02:00 PM   #141
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Russia or Russian seperatists doesn't matter two sides of the same coin. Obama is going to make mean face at them.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #142
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The Russians are putting some reasonably serious weapons in the hands of untrained, undisciplined, and unaccountable people. I'm actually somewhat surprised (and relieved) that they don't have a more professional proxy in Ukraine.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:36 PM   #143
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Yes, I'm confident BO will turn this lemon into lemonade.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:46 PM   #144
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This administration isn't particularly competent but they are doing fine here. Like a boa constrictor, we are choking the Russians to death. Obama stepped up sanctions on top Russian firms in the last week and now it's really starting to hurt. They are systematically cutting off key Russian leaders, banks and entities from the entire financial system.

The ruble is getting killed and Russia is dying economically. Their demographics will only be the final nail in their coffin. There is no need for any overt military action or any of that nonsense. I'm perfectly fine with economically crippling them and having CIA groups destabilize their key interests. This isn't to me about things like sovereignty of nations and other stupid crap like that, although that serves as a nice explanation. It's about choking a rival of its lifeblood in a way that doesn't get us dirty by way of common warfare.

Once we overturn the ban on the US exporting oil and put in place some infrastructure for oil transportation, we will be able to bury them for good. Lower oil prices = dead Russia.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:50 PM   #145
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And a lot of permission to launch said weaponry.
Yeah, what he said...




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Can you imagine if McCain was president .
President McCain gave a short statement today at the White House, "War now, war tomorrow, war forever!"
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Old 07-19-2014, 03:24 PM   #146
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This administration isn't particularly competent but they are doing fine here. Like a boa constrictor, we are choking the Russians to death. Obama stepped up sanctions on top Russian firms in the last week and now it's really starting to hurt. They are systematically cutting off key Russian leaders, banks and entities from the entire financial system.

The ruble is getting killed and Russia is dying economically. Their demographics will only be the final nail in their coffin. There is no need for any overt military action or any of that nonsense. I'm perfectly fine with economically crippling them and having CIA groups destabilize their key interests. This isn't to me about things like sovereignty of nations and other stupid crap like that, although that serves as a nice explanation. It's about choking a rival of its lifeblood in a way that doesn't get us dirty by way of common warfare.

Once we overturn the ban on the US exporting oil and put in place some infrastructure for oil transportation, we will be able to bury them for good. Lower oil prices = dead Russia.
It does seem to work and wish Iran suffered more economically where real change would take place.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:20 PM   #147
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The Russians are now saying that Putin was in the air at the time of the crash -- and that his airliner was on almost the same flight path as the 777 when it went down.

You have to ask: Was this an attempt to take out Putin?

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'

Published time: July 17, 2014 18:13
Edited time: July 18, 2014

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:06 PM   #148
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The Russians are now saying that Putin was in the air at the time of the crash -- and that his airliner was on almost the same flight path as the 777 when it went down.

You have to ask: Was this an attempt to take out Putin?

Reports that Putin flew similar route as MH17, presidential airport says 'hasn't overflown Ukraine for long time'

Published time: July 17, 2014 18:13
Edited time: July 18, 2014

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
No you really don't have to ask that. What a ****ing idiotic tin hat post. Sometimes your idiocy is just beyond belief. Ok, not sometimes.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:29 PM   #149
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Besides what's your point that Obama is smart to follow a Bush blueprint on Putin and Russia? That wouldn't be smart because Bush Jr was fooled badly by Putin. Bush was naive and felt he could just be down to earth with Putin, shake his had, have a drink, and then they would be great friends.

Pointing out Bush/Putin/Georgia just is more ammo for saying Obama needs to make a stand.

Obama needs to make a deal with Israel to stop the invasion. Somehow. Then tell Erdogan in Turkey we will give him credit for it in exchange for closing the Bosphoros to Russian military ships. That's how you work this ****, not sitting around saying we are leading from behind and threatening with sanctions Putin doesn't care about.
Cut I don't know you but would like to hear your band and meet you. But when you put the word "somehow" in the statement above it just exemplifies the fairy tail world you live in. Every possible criticism, blame etc is part of that word as an outcome solution. I swear to god no one should be allowed to post in the war forum if you haven't taken a poltical science class. Honestly you just expose yourself as totally ignorant of how all ths **** works in the press, and behind the scenes. My father, may he rest in peace, was a career CIA officer and was both a republican and a democrat in his lifetime. I remember when Watergate broke out and the choice was Carter after Agnew and he looked at me as an 8 year old and said "better a scoundrel than a fool" in his support of Nixon but he was always pragmatic rather than dogmatic or ideological.

His biggest frustration would have been reading comments on this board from everyone who didn't know jack **** about politics, diplomacy, what was fed to the media, how to read between the lines, and covert intel that wasn't public (can't fault anyone there, I didn't even know what he did until I was 15) and the I'd do this (like anyone actually could) or the "somehow" that is just fodder for an opposing party to **** on. He already knew the situation and the rest of us armchair quarterbacks wouldn't find out about for another decade but he'd listen to people pontificate like they actually knew something.

Everyone get that? and yeah I'm preachy here, but we won't know anything for another decade about anything that is going on right now. Only the media spin right or left that clouds rather than elucidates.

But please, post as if you were omnipotent and could actually do something with this ****ed up congress. I agree with Roh that any time we have an international incident and everyone doesn't get behind the president as a show of US unity is doing nothing more than sabotaging the US. Putin is ****ing laughing at us for being divided, for McCains criticism, valid or not, for not looking unified. Everything he does is successful for him and a political opportunity for him as he watches a p***Y president get vilified by those looking for political gain.

Collectively as a Nation we should hold ourselves in shame.

And may I add this is what happens when you drunk post. I blame it on Broncosteven and his Ambien cocktail mix.

Last edited by ghwk; 07-19-2014 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 07-19-2014, 08:53 PM   #150
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Washington Post story that went up for tomorrow's editions:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...fc2_story.html

-Russians supplied three Buk launchers to separatists

-Trained the separatists and may have even assisted in operations

-one of those three launchers fired the missile that downed MH17

-Russia has smuggled all three back across the border into Russia.
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