The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-01-2014, 07:49 PM   #176
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
I think Bush acted responsibly in Iraq for his mission, and don't blame him for that.
I'm not sure how it's "responsible" to invade a country and destroy it and kill its leader without any semblance of a plan for what comes next. Not to mention not have a way to fund it. The fact that you'd use such a word proves how out of touch you are with what happened before, during, and after the invasion. If you haven't already seen this documentary, you owe it to yourself to watch it.



"Responsible"!
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 08:15 PM   #177
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
I agree that homeland security seems to have a mission other agencies already had. Make the CIA and the FBI work together to keep us safe. Get rid of Homeland security could probably happen without sacrificing security.

What would 20% be compared to what we have been spending?

FY2013 Federal Tax Receipts - $2.8T
FY2013 DOD Base Budget - $533B
FY2013 Overseas Contingency Operations - $130B

20% of FY2013 federal tax receipts would be $560B. I guarantee if Paul Ryan's policy were enacted, along with reforms to Medicare, and SS, we would have a balanced budget. Not only that, but it would ensure current US military capabilities. 20% of any future gains in tax revenues would also go to defense. Just part of the plan in a sustainable future for the USA.

Last edited by pricejj; 07-01-2014 at 08:20 PM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 08:25 PM   #178
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post

"Responsible"!
As far as nation building goes, it was as good a plan as any. Far more responsible in fact to anything Obama has done. However, like I said, I believe it is up to the people to remove their own leadership. Without sacrifice of the native people and a will to coalesce, a nation cannot build. That is why the plan was doomed from the start.

Also, I don't see anything wrong with Operation Desert Storm. Repelling tyrants from overtaking foreign countries should be standard protocol for the US. If the other country has nukes (like Russia), obviously would entail a different procedure, and depend heavily on circumstances.

Last edited by pricejj; 07-01-2014 at 08:28 PM..
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2014, 10:40 PM   #179
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
FY2013 Federal Tax Receipts - $2.8T
FY2013 DOD Base Budget - $533B
FY2013 Overseas Contingency Operations - $130B

20% of FY2013 federal tax receipts would be $560B. I guarantee if Paul Ryan's policy were enacted, along with reforms to Medicare, and SS, we would have a balanced budget. Not only that, but it would ensure current US military capabilities. 20% of any future gains in tax revenues would also go to defense. Just part of the plan in a sustainable future for the USA.
So that is a substantial cut. How many troops hit the sidewalk looking for jobs and what states take the biggest hit. It would be a huge fight.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 06:51 AM   #180
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Also, I don't see anything wrong with Operation Desert Storm.
Again, the issue wasn't Desert Storm. It was the lack of a plan after Desert Storm. Watch the movie I posted above (I think you can find it on Netflix or Amazon if you prefer not to watch it on your laptop/desktop). There was no plan!
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 07:23 AM   #181
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
All hail Hercules!

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,888

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

The people were going to pour into the streets throwing flowers and greeting us as liberators. That was the plan.

Actually, Bush handed Iran a greater victory than they could have ever hoped for.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 07:30 AM   #182
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,039
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Actually, Bush handed Iran a greater victory than they could have ever hoped for.
Yup. And not only that, but we did exactly what OBL wanted us to do.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 08:36 AM   #183
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
So that is a substantial cut. How many troops hit the sidewalk looking for jobs and what states take the biggest hit. It would be a huge fight.
I think ending of the current foreign wars is inevitable. I've computed before that a reduction in troop levels by 10% would be sufficient, and good for economic sustainability.

Of course, like I said, Medicare and SS would have to be reformed at the same time. Progressives love to shrink the military at the expense of their unsustainable entitlement programs. That's an absolute no go. People seem to have lost sight of the federal debt amidst Obama's scandals, but it's not going away. We'll never be able to make money in savings accounts ever again due to Obama's debt. We're already back up to paying over $400B in interest payments every year even with ZIRP. Spending is still growing faster than revenue.

If interest rates were to go back up to what they were before Obama was in office, we'd be paying $1T in interest yearly, or 33% of tax revenues.

Last 5 yearly deficits (5 largest in history):
2009 - $1.4T
2010 - $1.3T
2011 - $1.3T
2012 - $1.1T
2013 - $680B
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 08:39 AM   #184
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Social Security spending is up 5 percent through the first seven months of fiscal year 2014, and spending for Medicaid is up 9 percent.

The CBO expects Medicaid spending to jump 13 percent by the time 2014 is over, and the Senate aide said this rise is due to Obamacare. “We knew Medicaid was going to start going up because of the influx of new people, new eligibility from Obamacare,” he said.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...ected-in-2014/
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 08:59 AM   #185
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Again, the issue wasn't Desert Storm. It was the lack of a plan after Desert Storm. Watch the movie I posted above (I think you can find it on Netflix or Amazon if you prefer not to watch it on your laptop/desktop). There was no plan!
This was the plan dude. Let me know if/when you're ever ready to move on from the "Bush's fault" narrative. I already have.

pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 09:19 AM   #186
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,143

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
This was the plan dude. Let me know if/when you're ever ready to move on from the "Bush's fault" narrative. I already have.

Ask him how responsible the plan after Odyssey Dawn looks so far.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 09:38 AM   #187
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Ask him how responsible the plan after Odyssey Dawn looks so far.
Here is another article detailing the US State Department's role in sponsoring and training NGO's beginning 2 years before the "Arab Spring" in Egypt.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/egypt-t...-syria/5375157


Now women are being raped and drug through the streets of Cairo. Obama's "Arab Spring" is (and will continue to be) one of the most unresponsible widespread acts of oppression and slaughter of humankind in modern times.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 10:08 AM   #188
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
I think ending of the current foreign wars is inevitable. I've computed before that a reduction in troop levels by 10% would be sufficient, and good for economic sustainability.

Of course, like I said, Medicare and SS would have to be reformed at the same time. Progressives love to shrink the military at the expense of their unsustainable entitlement programs. That's an absolute no go. People seem to have lost sight of the federal debt amidst Obama's scandals, but it's not going away. We'll never be able to make money in savings accounts ever again due to Obama's debt. We're already back up to paying over $400B in interest payments every year even with ZIRP. Spending is still growing faster than revenue.

If interest rates were to go back up to what they were before Obama was in office, we'd be paying $1T in interest yearly, or 33% of tax revenues.

Last 5 yearly deficits (5 largest in history):
2009 - $1.4T
2010 - $1.3T
2011 - $1.3T
2012 - $1.1T
2013 - $680B
I'd like to see big ticket items like building the f-35 stopped. Obviously too late on that one now but my point is that plane wasn;t needed. My friend works at Northrop and told me an f-15 with these new wings on it, upgraded electronics, out performs the f-35 lol. They just don't want to to tell us that lol but right now we have f-15's being upgraded. Pilots would rather fly the f-15 and that plane still kicks the **** out of other countries planes. Sure Russia has some high end ones, China as well, but not enough to make us worry IMO.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 10:11 AM   #189
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,703
Default

Full blown war breaking out in Eastern Ukraine right now. Russian terrorist troops have smashed through border. Rolling in tanks. Luhansk airport taken over. Several hundred of putin guys have been killed and will be sent home in coffins. 25 Ukrainian soldiers killed in last 24 hrs.

Meanwhile Hitler new law banning swearing in Russia takes effect today. I'm not making this up. The dude is going to be fighting his own revolution soon. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-launche...sharebuttonsHa!

Last edited by Meck77; 07-02-2014 at 10:13 AM..
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:05 PM   #190
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meck77 View Post
Full blown war breaking out in Eastern Ukraine right now. Russian terrorist troops have smashed through border. Rolling in tanks. Luhansk airport taken over. Several hundred of putin guys have been killed and will be sent home in coffins. 25 Ukrainian soldiers killed in last 24 hrs.

Meanwhile Hitler new law banning swearing in Russia takes effect today. I'm not making this up. The dude is going to be fighting his own revolution soon. http://news.yahoo.com/russia-launche...sharebuttonsHa!
They just joined the EU right? Wonder where the toothless EU is to help them?
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:16 PM   #191
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Get this:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ton-not-moscow

"The US has not had an ambassador in Moscow since the Ukraine crisis began. The absence of a resident ambassador means the government responsible for such a vacancy limits its understanding of the host nation's policies The absence of a United States ambassador in Moscow ever since the beginning of the Ukraine crisis has been striking. This never happened during the Cold War, when ambassadors were the prime conduits of dialogue between the superpowers. Not so these days."

As I suspected, Obama has been asleep at the wheel during the entire Ukraine crisis.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:30 PM   #192
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,812
Default

Price Obama though he could make some token moves like pulling Ambassador, some no teeth sanctions, and that would solve it. I guess that is his plan.

Russian plan= seize crimea for a warm water port, sieze Eastern Ukraine because the land valuable.

Obama plan- lead from behind and pull the ambassador.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:42 PM   #193
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Price Obama though he could make some token moves like pulling Ambassador, some no teeth sanctions, and that would solve it. I guess that is his plan.

Russian plan= seize crimea for a warm water port, sieze Eastern Ukraine because the land valuable.

Obama plan- lead from behind and pull the ambassador.
I think the Russian plan is more than that. It looks to me like Putin won't allow Ukraine to be part of the EU. He doesn't want Russia to be isolated economically any more than it already is. Putin is through with eastern EU expansion. He wants Belarus and Ukraine to remain as they were.

Obama is a moron. What happened to his Russian "pivot" or whatever the heck that was called? How can you pivot if you don't even have a Russian ambassador?
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:43 PM   #194
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,460

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
They just joined the EU right? Wonder where the toothless EU is to help them?

Russia's economic crisis deepens as EU readies fresh sanctions over Ukraine

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard 8:37PM BST 01 Jul 2014

Quote:
The EU is holding the Kremlin accountable for the failed ceasefire. Its ambassadors agreed yesterday to “intensified preparations” for new
sanctions, effectively cocking the gun.

German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble said further measures would hurt Europe but insisted that violations of international law cannot stand.

A strategy paper from Angela Merkel’s Christian Democrat Party called for a complete change in policy, deeming it impossible to work with the Kremlin so
long as Vladimir Putin is in charge.

Diplomats say the next round will see more “Stage 2” measures against companies rather than sectoral assaults on the energy industry or the
financial system.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...r-Ukraine.html
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #195
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 
United In Orange

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
Russia's economic crisis deepens as EU readies fresh sanctions over Ukraine

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard 8:37PM BST 01 Jul 2014


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...r-Ukraine.html
It doesn't appear that sanctions are doing anything to help the situation DenverBrit. The EU convinced Ukraine to go through a revolution to join them. Now Ukraine is being taken over by Russia as the EU stands idly by. Probably not what the Ukrainians had in mind.
pricejj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 01:48 PM   #196
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,460

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
It doesn't appear that sanctions are doing anything to help the situation DenverBrit. The EU convinced Ukraine to go through a revolution to join them. Now Ukraine is being taken over by Russia as the EU stands idly by. Probably not what the Ukrainians had in mind.
What do you expect the EU to do?

It's an economic bloc, not a military.
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 02:51 PM   #197
Meck77
.
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,703
Default

If putin rolls over Ukraine the EU will be sweating bullets. Obama sent some MRE's when he should have sent 50 cals. Putin will likely take Moldova, then start the destabilization of the baltics. Obama can't even stop a steady stream of children coming in illegally from mexico let alone show any back bone against what is our modern day hitler.
Meck77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 03:27 PM   #198
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,143

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
What do you expect the EU to do?

It's an economic bloc, not a military.
Someday the welfare state's going to have to learn to live in the real world.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:04 PM   #199
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,460

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Someday the welfare state's going to have to learn to live in the real world.

Meaning?
DenverBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2014, 04:08 PM   #200
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 
All hail Hercules!

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,888

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBrit View Post
What do you expect the EU to do?

It's an economic bloc, not a military.
It doesn't really matter what anybody does. With Price, if Obama does A, he's wrong. If he does anything else all the way to and including Z, he's wrong as well. And not only that, it's all his fault.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Denver Broncos