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Old 06-19-2014, 07:08 PM   #1
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Default Spacetime could be a Superfluid

I have often wondered if this was the case, if space is a fluid riding a wave that is spreading out, could help explain dark matter and dark energy eventually if it were the case.

Think about it we actually "swim" in O2 in gas form, no reason not to think Space time is a fluid or gas.


What is gravity?

For you and me, the question is relatively straightforward—it’s what keeps our feet on the ground, computers on our laps, and water in our glass. But for physicists, it’s not that simple.

Gravity forms the foundation of general relativity, the theory that much of modern physics is built on. It warps spacetime and allows galaxies, stars, and planets to form. It’s helped us make sense of the universe, but it’s also hard to reconcile with quantum mechanics, the leading theory that describes most of what general relativity doesn’t—the really small stuff.

water-bubbles
A new theory says that spacetime may be a superfluid.
Physicists have been searching for years for ways to get gravity to agree with quantum mechanics. That search has produced string theory, causal dynamical triangulation, and others which seek to break gravity down into its component parts. Now, Stefano Liberati of the International School for Advanced Studies and Luca Maccione of Ludwig Maximilian University think they have a better approach.

Spacetime, they say, can be understood as a liquid. A superfluid, really, composed of fundamental objects we may not have discovered yet. Spacetime’s properties then emerge, like water, which has emergent properties like fluidity and cohesion when H2O molecules are grouped together at the right temperature and pressure.

Clara Moskowitz, reporting for Scientific American:

In this analogy particles would travel through spacetime like waves in an ocean, and the laws of fluid mechanics—condensed matter physics—would apply. Previously physicists considered how particles of different energies would disperse in spacetime, just as waves of different wavelengths disperse, or travel at different speeds, in water. In the latest study Liberati and Maccione took into account another fluid effect: dissipation. As waves travel through a medium, they lose energy over time. This dampening effect would also happen to photons traveling through spacetime, the researchers found. Although the effect is small, high-energy photons traveling very long distances should lose a noticeable amount of energy, the researchers say.

Liberati and Maccione have their eyes and instruments trained on the Crab Nebula, a source of high-energy X-rays and gamma rays. They’re hoping that changes in that radiation as it travels to Earth will help test their superfluid theory.

Currently, the superfluid theory doesn’t seem to have many supporters. But then again, neither did Einstein at first. If Liberati and Maccione are proven correct, they could finally unite the two theories of physics into one.

More below:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/ph...aign=nova_next
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Old 06-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #2
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Damn good science article.
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:47 PM   #3
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Could someone dumb it down for me more?
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Old 06-19-2014, 08:59 PM   #4
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Could someone dumb it down for me more?
There is a hypothesis in general relativity that says "the experience of time my only be a local phenomenon. " The article above 8s talking about how the way space curves and expands that lends itself to this theory.

Got it? Not trying to be a smart ass.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:08 PM   #5
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There is a hypothesis in general relativity that says "the experience of time my only be a local phenomenon. " The article above 8s talking about how the way space curves and expands that lends itself to this theory.

Got it? Not trying to be a smart ass.
I never spent a lot of time with this sort of stuff. Its interesting for sure though. And yes it makes sense.the k you
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:09 PM   #6
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Could someone dumb it down for me more?
I'll try.

The universe, which is matter and time together, has evidence of the big bang theory. But the big bang didn't blow up like dynamite, it was more like and even sphere that spread all matter out quickly in all directions, and strangely uniformly. So how did all matter expand so uniformly everywhere in fractions of a second?

If you look at this paper, They have detected "ripples" in space and time which corroborates the theory that the universe was an even, rapid expansion. But an expansion of what? What is the "nothing" that is pulling the universe outward so evenly? They even have determined it is accelerating, not slowing down, like a current drawing all matter apart.

They call it dark matter and it is little understood. This article suggests the makeup of the universe is riding on a liquid-like ocean of dark matter, space and time, and that we should try and analyze and research its behavior like it is a body of water to understand the mechanics of it.

So maybe gravitational forces are drains of space time and as bodies, like boats float toward the drains, the pace around these points increases. And all matter is being pulled on a wave outward.

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Old 06-19-2014, 09:10 PM   #7
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Could someone dumb it down for me more?
The universe is made of orange juice.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:13 PM   #8
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The universe is made of orange juice.
Also, this.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:19 PM   #9
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I'll try.

The universe, which is matter and time together, has evidence of the big bang theory. But the big bang didn't blow up like dynamite, it was more like and even sphere that spread all matter out quickly in all directions, and strangely uniformly. So how did all matter expand so uniformly everywhere in fractions of a second?

If you look at this paper, They have detected "ripples" in space and time which corroborates the theory that the universe was an even, rapid expansion. But and expansion of what? What is the "nothing" that is pulling the universe outward so evenly? They even have determined it is accelerating, not slowly down, like a current drawing all matter apart.

They call it dark matter and it is little understood. This article suggests the makeup of the universe is riding on a liquid-like ocean of dark matter, space and time, and that we should try and analyze and research its behavior like it is a body of water to understand the mechanics of it.

So maybe gravitational forces are drains of space time and as bodies, like boats float toward the drains, the pace around these points increases. And all matter is being pulled on a wave outward.
awesome explanation kaylore. That's pretty cool stuff i discovered I have the science channel. Ill tune in
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:29 PM   #10
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I'll try.

The universe, which is matter and time together, has evidence of the big bang theory. But the big bang didn't blow up like dynamite, it was more like and even sphere that spread all matter out quickly in all directions, and strangely uniformly. So how did all matter expand so uniformly everywhere in fractions of a second?

If you look at this paper, They have detected "ripples" in space and time which corroborates the theory that the universe was an even, rapid expansion. But and expansion of what? What is the "nothing" that is pulling the universe outward so evenly? They even have determined it is accelerating, not slowly down, like a current drawing all matter apart.

They call it dark matter and it is little understood. This article suggests the makeup of the universe is riding on a liquid-like ocean of dark matter, space and time, and that we should try and analyze and research its behavior like it is a body of water to understand the mechanics of it.

So maybe gravitational forces are drains of space time and as bodies, like boats float toward the drains, the pace around these points increases. And all matter is being pulled on a wave outward.
Amazing. I like the way you explain it. I have always envisioned the big bang as a explosion.. i think because that is the only thing to compare it to here on earth. But an expansion is something that blows my mind. Certainly raises more questions than answers. Absolutely brilliant and facinating to visualize
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:42 PM   #11
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But an expansion is something that blows my mind.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:07 AM   #12
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I'll try.

The universe, which is matter and time together, has evidence of the big bang theory. But the big bang didn't blow up like dynamite, it was more like and even sphere that spread all matter out quickly in all directions, and strangely uniformly. So how did all matter expand so uniformly everywhere in fractions of a second?

If you look at this paper, They have detected "ripples" in space and time which corroborates the theory that the universe was an even, rapid expansion. But an expansion of what? What is the "nothing" that is pulling the universe outward so evenly? They even have determined it is accelerating, not slowing down, like a current drawing all matter apart.

They call it dark matter and it is little understood. This article suggests the makeup of the universe is riding on a liquid-like ocean of dark matter, space and time, and that we should try and analyze and research its behavior like it is a body of water to understand the mechanics of it.

So maybe gravitational forces are drains of space time and as bodies, like boats float toward the drains, the pace around these points increases. And all matter is being pulled on a wave outward.
can someone dumb this down?

so the planets are like pulp in OJ and we are all eventually going to settle on the bottom unless god decides to stir up the cup with a straw? Got it!!
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:18 AM   #13
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:06 AM   #14
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It is more like a toilet bowl. Some areas of the universe are like floating turds and some are sinkers. Then there is diarrhea which spreads and has some pieces that float and some that sink. When you flush, that's gravity.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:29 AM   #15
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It is more like a toilet bowl. Some areas of the universe are like floating turds and some are sinkers. Then there is diarrhea which spreads and has some pieces that float and some that sink. When you flush, that's gravity.
This to was helpful. Thank you for your contribution to science.
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:53 AM   #16
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Am I the only one that gets freaked out by thinking of this ? In life everything is contained by a shell of some kind but what is space held together with ? I can't come up with any possible conclusion and that really messes with my brain. I have learned over the years that life is like lego's. You may not be an expert on everything but with a little research you can stack the pieces together enough that it resembles the shape you're looking for . It's enough to understand it even though it may not be enough to build it. With space and black matter this is not possible.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:12 AM   #17
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Am I the only one that gets freaked out by thinking of this ? In life everything is contained by a shell of some kind but what is space held together with ? I can't come up with any possible conclusion and that really messes with my brain. I have learned over the years that life is like lego's. You may not be an expert on everything but with a little research you can stack the pieces together enough that it resembles the shape you're looking for . It's enough to understand it even though it may not be enough to build it. With space and black matter this is not possible.
Drink more beer.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:13 AM   #18
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Am I the only one that gets freaked out by thinking of this ? In life everything is contained by a shell of some kind but what is space held together with ? I can't come up with any possible conclusion and that really messes with my brain. I have learned over the years that life is like lego's. You may not be an expert on everything but with a little research you can stack the pieces together enough that it resembles the shape you're looking for . It's enough to understand it even though it may not be enough to build it. With space and black matter this is not possible.
Yeah the idea of inifinite space and matter in all directions. And this idea that all of the infinity was in a ball. And what is outside that ball? Is this infinite universe in something else?
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #19
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Amazing. I like the way you explain it. I have always envisioned the big bang as a explosion.. i think because that is the only thing to compare it to here on earth. But an expansion is something that blows my mind. Certainly raises more questions than answers. Absolutely brilliant and facinating to visualize
I also believe we are expanding into other things which could help explain why even though we are expanding we are not losing matter, we are almost gaining it as I understand it.
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:45 PM   #20
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I also believe we are expanding into other things which could help explain why even though we are expanding we are not losing matter, we are almost gaining it as I understand it.
What is matter
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Old 06-20-2014, 12:51 PM   #21
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What is matter
Condensed energy.
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Old 06-20-2014, 01:10 PM   #22
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Condensed energy.
So everything is Matter ?
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Old 06-20-2014, 01:24 PM   #23
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So everything is Matter ?
it matters not.
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Old 06-20-2014, 01:38 PM   #24
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Yeah the idea of inifinite space and matter in all directions. And this idea that all of the infinity was in a ball. And what is outside that ball? Is this infinite universe in something else?

If everything was at one point inside the confines of a "ball". Then one day began to expand. Either everything inside the ball either filled the space around it, or everything around it expanded at the same rate, and we are still inside "it".
Cool to think about. Or of course it could be some third possibility
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Old 06-20-2014, 02:05 PM   #25
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Am I the only one that gets freaked out by thinking of this ? In life everything is contained by a shell of some kind but what is space held together with ? I can't come up with any possible conclusion and that really messes with my brain. I have learned over the years that life is like lego's. You may not be an expert on everything but with a little research you can stack the pieces together enough that it resembles the shape you're looking for . It's enough to understand it even though it may not be enough to build it. With space and black matter this is not possible.
You think that's freaky? Only 10% of you is you. The other 90% is microbes. And they're swimming in the vast gravitational field that is your personal galaxy.
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