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Old 06-14-2014, 07:01 PM   #26
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Actually, it does. If you beat someone up because he/she is gay that is worse than if you beat someone up because they cut you off in traffic. It just is.
That will hold up great in court.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:06 PM   #27
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Boy, the high horses are out today!

If (I am not hoping this happens) someone rapes your wife, daughter, niece etc. and she ends up killing the guy.

Or

This same wife, daughter, niece kills a woman/man because they pissed her off.

It's the same because one is not more "mudery"? We are not debating if you are "more dead" the the debate is justifiable homicide or murder, there is a difference.
There is no such thing as "justified" murder. It's called murder/homicide for a reason. If it was "justified" it wouldn't be called murder, it would be self-defense.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #28
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I support the death penalty for premeditated murder and double death penalty for premeditated murder with hate crime component.
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Old 06-14-2014, 07:16 PM   #29
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That will hold up great in court.
I honestly can't tell if he's being facetious or not.

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So if I kill you because you beat me my whole life and made me unstable and violent or if I kill you because you are a Mormon, you think those should receive equal weight?
That's a bit different. The short answer is no because you're talking about someone who was abused and they could make a case for self-defense and even acquit because of the circumstance you were put it for being horrifically abused made you mentally unstable. There are cases like that in history.

That said, if I bullied you once as a kid, and you in your seething rage murdered me as an adult, I think that should be tried the same way as if you found out I was Mormon and wanted all Mormon's dead and shot me. It's all murder and it's all wrong. As Archer and Garcia pointed out, trying to qualify murder motives gets into really nebulous and difficult to justify areas.

If racism makes a crime worst, what does sexism make it? It the sexism not as bad if a woman commits a crime on a man because men are stronger? What about other things like religious bigotry? Religion is a choice, so does that make it less bad than racism? And is it not as bad if the guy was just baptized into his church, whereas if he was a member a long time it would be much worse? Is there a sliding scale of escalators and when you're the worst kind of bigot, you assault is super-duper bad?

How does killing someone for the color of their skin demand more penalty than killing someone for their money or because they cheated on you? And what is the point of making that delineation? Do you honestly think criminals are going to be "less racist" when they commit crimes that harm others because of hate crime laws? And honestly, if the crime rate was the same, but there were fewer instances of it being rooted in "hate related" motives, how has society benefited? Because the criminals are now equal opportunity?

It's incredibly stupid. They're laws created to make people feel like they're doing something about bigotry. When in fact they are only creating more instances where people use race to define people - which is a step in the wrong direction.

Last edited by Kaylore; 06-14-2014 at 07:21 PM..
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:32 PM   #30
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White people are the only ones who can hate according to the American justice system under Obummer.
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Old 06-14-2014, 08:36 PM   #31
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I honestly can't tell if he's being facetious or not.



That's a bit different. The short answer is no because you're talking about someone who was abused and they could make a case for self-defense and even acquit because of the circumstance you were put it for being horrifically abused made you mentally unstable. There are cases like that in history.

That said, if I bullied you once as a kid, and you in your seething rage murdered me as an adult, I think that should be tried the same way as if you found out I was Mormon and wanted all Mormon's dead and shot me. It's all murder and it's all wrong. As Archer and Garcia pointed out, trying to qualify murder motives gets into really nebulous and difficult to justify areas.

If racism makes a crime worst, what does sexism make it? It the sexism not as bad if a woman commits a crime on a man because men are stronger? What about other things like religious bigotry? Religion is a choice, so does that make it less bad than racism? And is it not as bad if the guy was just baptized into his church, whereas if he was a member a long time it would be much worse? Is there a sliding scale of escalators and when you're the worst kind of bigot, you assault is super-duper bad?

How does killing someone for the color of their skin demand more penalty than killing someone for their money or because they cheated on you? And what is the point of making that delineation? Do you honestly think criminals are going to be "less racist" when they commit crimes that harm others because of hate crime laws? And honestly, if the crime rate was the same, but there were fewer instances of it being rooted in "hate related" motives, how has society benefited? Because the criminals are now equal opportunity?

It's incredibly stupid. They're laws created to make people feel like they're doing something about bigotry. When in fact they are only creating more instances where people use race to define people - which is a step in the wrong direction.
No you can't kill someone legally unless you are in fear for your life at the exact time you do it. You can't say he molested my kid so I killed him. If we let people off for that then we would have more citizens taking punishment upon themselves. Hate crimes are a touchy subject because in many states the loser of a hate crime case pays the victims legal bills. So attorneys run up huge bills. I have seen it, my office does it all the time. They seek out hate crimes so they can roll up a ton of civil litigation.

On the criminal side hate crimes have enhancements. Because black people commit more crimes if they made black on white crime a hate crime we would need about 3459 more prisons. Thats just a guess lol.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:00 PM   #32
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White people are the only ones who can hate according to the American justice system under Obummer.
Oh this is a new thing?
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:03 PM   #33
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White people are the only ones who can hate according to the American justice system under Obummer.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:07 PM   #34
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Unless the victim is black or homosexual and the suspect is a white guy there are no hate crimes.
This is exactly right. But I would go so far as to say, if the roles were reversed, and the black girl got the beating = hate crime.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:10 PM   #35
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I may be alone in my thinking but this girl is just 13, she has learned this behavior from someone. This person or persons that is teaching this behavior is the one guilty of the hate crime aspect. The 13 year old girl is guilty of assault but not sure at the young of age you can "hate"?
I absolutely agree that this is probably learned behavior. I also believe that 13 is old enough to hate. But it's also young enough to learn better
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:31 PM   #36
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Oh this is a new thing?
Yep. And also ignore the fact that the majority of crimes are tried and sentenced based on state jurisdictional laws, not federal. But yes in Cut's world it is all Obama's fault, even the ideals that Conservatives have been fighting for for decades.
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Old 06-14-2014, 09:36 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I honestly can't tell if he's being facetious or not.



That's a bit different. The short answer is no because you're talking about someone who was abused and they could make a case for self-defense and even acquit because of the circumstance you were put it for being horrifically abused made you mentally unstable. There are cases like that in history.

That said, if I bullied you once as a kid, and you in your seething rage murdered me as an adult, I think that should be tried the same way as if you found out I was Mormon and wanted all Mormon's dead and shot me. It's all murder and it's all wrong. As Archer and Garcia pointed out, trying to qualify murder motives gets into really nebulous and difficult to justify areas.

If racism makes a crime worst, what does sexism make it? It the sexism not as bad if a woman commits a crime on a man because men are stronger? What about other things like religious bigotry? Religion is a choice, so does that make it less bad than racism? And is it not as bad if the guy was just baptized into his church, whereas if he was a member a long time it would be much worse? Is there a sliding scale of escalators and when you're the worst kind of bigot, you assault is super-duper bad?

How does killing someone for the color of their skin demand more penalty than killing someone for their money or because they cheated on you? And what is the point of making that delineation? Do you honestly think criminals are going to be "less racist" when they commit crimes that harm others because of hate crime laws? And honestly, if the crime rate was the same, but there were fewer instances of it being rooted in "hate related" motives, how has society benefited? Because the criminals are now equal opportunity?

It's incredibly stupid. They're laws created to make people feel like they're doing something about bigotry. When in fact they are only creating more instances where people use race to define people - which is a step in the wrong direction.
As stated after you, that's not really a self defense charge, but I understand your point. I just personally don't have a problem with the justice system having some case by case grayness to it rather than ridged black and white. In my opinion some crimes are worse than others and one of the criteria to judge that is the motive.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:15 PM   #38
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Funny to watch liberals get upset when I make jokes about everything being Obummers fault. You all started it. Bush got blamed for every little thing that went wrong.
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Old 06-14-2014, 10:22 PM   #39
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Funny to watch liberals get upset when I make jokes about everything being Obummers fault. You all started it. Bush got blamed for every little thing that went wrong.
what do you mean got blamed ..Obummer is into what his 5 th year and hes still blaming Bush..
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:53 AM   #40
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Actually, it does. If you beat someone up because he/she is gay that is worse than if you beat someone up because they cut you off in traffic. It just is.
I agree.

Killing somebody for being born a certain way is worse than killing them for their own actions towards you. One is a natural hatred unprovoked, the other is a reaction. However, there are much worse things than cutting you off in traffic. This is the closing argument in A Time to Kill that got Sam Jackson acquitted. Killing people out of revenge is wrong, but I couldn't say I wouldn't have done the same thing if they did this to my daughter.

I want to tell you a story. I'm going to ask you all to close your eyes while I tell you the story. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to yourselves. Go ahead. Close your eyes, please. This is a story about a little girl walking home from the grocery store one sunny afternoon. I want you to picture this little girl. Suddenly a truck races up. Two men jump out and grab her. They drag her into a nearby field and they tie her up and they rip her clothes from her body. Now they climb on. First one, then the other, raping her, shattering everything innocent and pure with a vicious thrust in a fog of drunken breath and sweat. And when they're done, after they've killed her tiny womb, murdered any chance for her to have children, to have life beyond her own, they decide to use her for target practice. They start throwing full beer cans at her. They throw them so hard that it tears the flesh all the way to her bones. Then they urinate on her. Now comes the hanging. They have a rope. They tie a noose. Imagine the noose going tight around her neck and with a sudden blinding jerk she's pulled into the air and her feet and legs go kicking. They don't find the ground. The hanging branch isn't strong enough. It snaps and she falls back to the earth. So they pick her up, throw her in the back of the truck and drive out to Foggy Creek Bridge. Pitch her over the edge. And she drops some thirty feet down to the creek bottom below. Can you see her? Her raped, beaten, broken body soaked in their urine, soaked in their semen, soaked in her blood, left to die. Can you see her? I want you to picture that little girl. Now imagine she's white.
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Old 06-15-2014, 01:05 AM   #41
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Only crimes against Blacks and Hispanics are protected. Whites and Non protected minorities are never hated against, killed, or face work place discrimination, obviously.

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Old 06-15-2014, 01:50 AM   #42
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Generations of state sponsored fatherhood abandonment. Happy Father's Day.
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:56 AM   #43
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Funny to watch liberals get upset when I make jokes about everything being Obummers fault. You all started it. Bush got blamed for every little thing that went wrong.
He did? I thought he only got blamed for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which he started, and the subsequent debt caused by those wars and the taxcuts he gave and the failure of the federal administration to provide aid to New Orleans following Katrina, which his administration oversaw. I would say it is pretty fair since he had direct influence or responsibility for all those things.

There is difference between blaming someone for things they did, and blaming someone for random **** they have no relation to.
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:00 AM   #44
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This girl should be tried as an adult and it absolutely is a hate crime. Premeditated and filmed and then posted to YouTube.

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...Fhpt%3Dsitenav
I find this thing with being tried as an adult to be extremely puzzling. The reason kids aren't allowed to drink, vote, own property, work, have sex and be convicted under the penal code is that the mind of a child is not considered to be capable of understanding the consequences of their own actions. Yet, when they do something sufficiently horrific suddenly they are randomly deemed capable of understanding the consequences of their actions.

So it is generally accepted that a 13 year old can not be trusted to understand the consequences of having a beer, having sex, driving a car or holding down a full-time job. Yet, this same undeveloped mind has no problem with the consequences of horrific crimes, an arguably much more nebulous and abstract concept.
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:36 AM   #45
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No you can't kill someone legally unless you are in fear for your life at the exact time you do it. You can't say he molested my kid so I killed him. If we let people off for that then we would have more citizens taking punishment upon themselves. Hate crimes are a touchy subject because in many states the loser of a hate crime case pays the victims legal bills. So attorneys run up huge bills. I have seen it, my office does it all the time. They seek out hate crimes so they can roll up a ton of civil litigation.

On the criminal side hate crimes have enhancements. Because black people commit more crimes if they made black on white crime a hate crime we would need about 3459 more prisons. Thats just a guess lol.
Lmfao you are unbelievable.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:28 AM   #46
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Lmfao you are unbelievable.
Ignore stupid or you will get pulled down with him.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:22 AM   #47
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So was it hate or attempted hate?
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:30 AM   #48
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It was premeditated assault on a 10 year old, recorded and broadcast to the world by someone who belongs in a cage.
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Old 06-15-2014, 11:14 AM   #49
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OMG, get real. You're wanting a 13 year old to be charged as an adult for slapping around some girl for a few seconds. That's ridiculous. She should be tried as a 13 year old girl who beat up a 10 year old girl. I'm not sure what punishment that carries but that's how it should go down. Get out of here with tried as an adult for that crap.
Hate crimes call for a 10 year penalty if found guilty. I don't think she should get charged as a adualt but she should get juvinile life for it, And continue to compound of racial tension in the US. Whites have civil rights in this country just as much as black, brown, red, green. It males me Ill how people champion and how deploreable if it is white on black. But the opposite its not a big deal.

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Old 06-15-2014, 11:24 AM   #50
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wuDx6_P...ient=mv-google

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