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Old 06-12-2014, 08:06 PM   #126
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Actually, Maliki and the Iraqi parliament ordered the U.S. out. It wasn't Obama's choice to make.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...-there/247174/
Funny that when we were withdrawing troops, Obama was getting us out. Funny how (facts) change for convenience.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:09 PM   #127
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By far and away the worst post in this entire thread. Not even close. Thank God youíre not in power over here.
Case and point. He lacks the fortitude to win. Again...after every other measure has been exhausted. Obviously Iraq doesn't apply.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:13 PM   #128
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Not sure what everyone is having a problem with: Iraq is splitting along sectarian lines: Sunni's, Shiites, and Kurds. It was always going to happen. Let them get it over with.
I think this is the answer. The people won't fight for their country because their sect comes before their country.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:16 PM   #129
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I am not convinced Saddam would have survived the Arab Spring movement. Not saying that justifies anything, but I think what you're seeing in Iraq was inevitable.
In 1991, the CIA tried to spark an uprising inside Iraq immediately following the first gulf war, but that got snuffed out real quick by Saddam.

Given that, I don't think it would have happened under Saddam.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:16 PM   #130
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It's not impossible though. It's just people lack the fortitude to do what is necessary.
Yeah, impossible. Who the hell really cares what happens in Iraq? I've got little league in Vancouver, WA to worry about. Plus they're trying to bring income taxes to this state. And I've got a conference to help plan at work. Why should I care about a war that we didn't declare in a part of the world that hates us in the first place? I don't. I never did, and no one ever explained to me in clear, credible language why I should.

The mission was doomed to fail at the start because the people pushing for the war sold it as an in-and-out mission and delivered more than a decade of defeat.

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Old 06-12-2014, 08:17 PM   #131
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I would say never. But when the region dies down. Certainly you would want them there for this crap. Having military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan provided several benefits.
  • It put more troop support closer to our allies in the mideast.
  • It allowed us pull troops out of Saudi Arabia, which was one of the major complaints from Islamists (not even militant ones).
  • It would allow us to monitor the situation for moments just like this one.
  • You now had military presence on either side of Iran as a check against whatever they're doing.
I'm late responding to this and it's probably already been covered, but you might have misread my question. I asked, 'How long should we have kept troops over there?'.

When you say 'never', were you saying that we should never bring the troops home?
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:27 PM   #132
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Case and point. He lacks the fortitude to win. Again...after every other measure has been exhausted. Obviously Iraq doesn't apply.
Well ok then, maybe Iím misunderstanding but if youíre referring to a Pearl Harbor type do or die situation, then ok...letí s hope we never get there.

Iím not a flag carrying Obama team leader. The stuff with drones and spying freaks me out. Heís not even a liberal. But I have a hard time believing anyone else couldíve stepped in and done much better. Worse, oh yeah. But not better.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:53 PM   #133
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Well ok then, maybe Iím misunderstanding but if youíre referring to a Pearl Harbor type do or die situation, then ok...letí s hope we never get there.

Iím not a flag carrying Obama team leader. The stuff with drones and spying freaks me out. Heís not even a liberal. But I have a hard time believing anyone else couldíve stepped in and done much better. Worse, oh yeah. But not better.
Oh don't kid yourself. Obama is exceptionally bad at his job. He's great at being a celebrity. He's just awful at being a president. Hillary, for one, would have been able to do a better job. John Kerry. Biden. Any of these three would have made a better president. They, however, don't even come close when it comes to being a celebrity.

I used to think Bush was the worst president of our generation. I can't believe that someone came in to run away with that title hands down.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:57 PM   #134
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weren't the Sunni's basically ousted during the overthrow of Saddam? Suddenly that seems like a bad idea.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:21 PM   #135
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Funny that when we were withdrawing troops, Obama was getting us out. Funny how (facts) change for convenience.
Facts are facts.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:23 PM   #136
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Oh don't kid yourself. Obama is exceptionally bad at his job. He's great at being a celebrity. He's just awful at being a president. Hillary, for one, would have been able to do a better job. John Kerry. Biden. Any of these three would have made a better president. They, however, don't even come close when it comes to being a celebrity.

I used to think Bush was the worst president of our generation. I can't believe that someone came in to run away with that title hands down.
I put Obama right up there with James Buchanan.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:49 PM   #137
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I doubt the U.S. could have sustained a "successful" occupation of Iraq. Short of 250,000 troops. Even then. I guess our leaders, or we, are just too stupid. Vietnam? Didn't learn a goddamn thing. We watched the Soviets get their asses kicked in Afghanistan and what did we do? Stumbled right into the trap like a bunch of fools. Iraq? Stupidest foreign policy mistake in U.S. history. Now, we can enjoy the blowback.
Yet Obama expanded the Afghanistan war up to 100,000 troops. Tripling the casualties. There's still more troops in Afghanistan than there were when Bush left office.
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:51 PM   #138
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Oh don't kid yourself. Obama is exceptionally bad at his job. He's great at being a celebrity. He's just awful at being a president. Hillary, for one, would have been able to do a better job. John Kerry. Biden. Any of these three would have made a better president. They, however, don't even come close when it comes to being a celebrity.

I used to think Bush was the worst president of our generation. I can't believe that someone came in to run away with that title hands down.
No way. Dubya will never ever ever be topped. At least I hope and pray.

I am a bit perplexed by all this Obama is terrible stuff. Heís been handcuffed by an obstructionist Congress. Still managed to get Obamacare through. I donít love the guy but wonder a lot about why heís so widely disparaged.

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Old 06-12-2014, 09:53 PM   #139
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BTW Dubya loved that celebrity stuff, too. It’s the name of the game these days.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:05 PM   #140
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Yet Obama expanded the Afghanistan war up to 100,000 troops. Tripling the casualties. There's still more troops in Afghanistan than there were when Bush left office.
How does that relate to my post?
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:10 PM   #141
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TD4HOF Lol

1. By the time Obama is done, he'll have added more to the US Federal debt than all other presidents in US history.
2. He's a Socialist Progressive doing his best to turn the US into Europe by executive fiat and midnight votes.
3. Printing $1T per year with ZIRP has done more damage to the middle class in this country than you can ever imagine. It is no longer possible for average Americans to achieve the American dream.
4. Obama is by far and away the worst president in American history and it's not even close. He makes GWB look like a veritable genius.

Your talking about a guy who is more war hungry than neocon's. Except he has no mission and no plan.

He actually figured out a way to make the most expensive healthcare system in the world even more expensive, with no end in sight.

Obama has literally taken all the worst policies created in the last 50 years, and made them worse. It takes a special **** up to do that bad. The guy is quite proficient at 'Rules for Radicals' to say the least.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:11 PM   #142
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Facts are facts.
only when it suits you.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:15 PM   #143
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How does that relate to my post?
That Obama is a major **** up no matter which way you spin it.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:26 PM   #144
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No way. Dubya will never ever ever be topped. At least I hope and pray.

I am a bit perplexed by all this Obama is terrible stuff. Heís been handcuffed by an obstructionist Congress. Still managed to get Obamacare through. I donít love the guy but wonder a lot about why heís so widely disparaged.
Obama easily topped Bush when he surged in Afghanistan with no purpose, and is now pulling out. His foriegn policy is absolutely muddled. He's dangerous in the worst way: he's weak.

Obama is easily the worst president of our generation. He makes Carter look like Eisenhower.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:31 PM   #145
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Jimmy Carter presided over an awesome 4 year party. Loved that guy.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:36 PM   #146
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Jimmy Carter presided over an awesome 4 year party. Loved that guy.
I was too young to know what was going on then so don't really judge. My broad impression of Carter was that he was a peanut farmer trying to be a president.
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:44 PM   #147
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Not to blame the Bush Administration for every thing but one thing to think about is what if they would have let Paul Bremer run things his way which would have lead to an Iraq that was still run by the Sunni elite minus Saddam's inner circle. May have been the only way to fix the country and it would have gotten done a lot faster. I really think if that would have happened we would not be seeing the radicals taking over the country today.

I think a better caliber President would have been wise enough to realize that taking the country away from the Sunni would create a mess.

Last edited by uplink; 06-12-2014 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:50 PM   #148
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Not to blame the Bush Administration for every thing but one thing to think about is what if they would have let Paul Bremer run things his way which would have lead to an Iraq that was still run by the Sunni elite minus Saddam's inner circle. May have been the only way to fix the country and it would have gotten done a lot faster. I really think if that would have happened we would not be seeing the radicals taking over the country today.

I think a better caliber President would have been wise enough to realize that taking the country away from the Sunni would create a mess.
Better yet, what if we didn't go into Iraq and let the social media revolution over take them like it has everywhere else in the region, with power rising organically, and American troops staying home to help out with things like border security.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:14 PM   #149
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Better yet, what if we didn't go into Iraq and let the social media revolution over take them like it has everywhere else in the region, with power rising organically, and American troops staying home to help out with things like border security.

The only problem is the 'Arab Spring' didn't rise organically. Most of these countries in complete disaster mode right now had legitimate governments. This administration funded extremist uprisings in all these places then backed away like Steve Urkel.

At least Bush deposed a known tyrant, saw it through until the country had legitimate elections, wrote a constitution, and formed their democratic government.

What does Obama do? Finance warlords, leading to complete chaos. None of the places he's entered have legitimate governments anymore. It's a human rights catastrophe.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:37 PM   #150
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TD4HOF Lol

1. By the time Obama is done, he'll have added more to the US Federal debt than all other presidents in US history.
2. He's a Socialist Progressive doing his best to turn the US into Europe by executive fiat and midnight votes.
3. Printing $1T per year with ZIRP has done more damage to the middle class in this country than you can ever imagine. It is no longer possible for average Americans to achieve the American dream.
4. Obama is by far and away the worst president in American history and it's not even close. He makes GWB look like a veritable genius.

Your talking about a guy who is more war hungry than neocon's. Except he has no mission and no plan.

He actually figured out a way to make the most expensive healthcare system in the world even more expensive, with no end in sight.

Obama has literally taken all the worst policies created in the last 50 years, and made them worse. It takes a special **** up to do that bad. The guy is quite proficient at 'Rules for Radicals' to say the least.
Don't take a thing you say seriously. You sound unhinged.
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