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Old 06-12-2014, 02:43 PM   #26
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I think most of us will agree that going into Iraq was absolutely the wrong call. That said, you can't excuse this administration's ineptitude regarding foreign policy. Obama has said such stupid things recently like "Al-Qaeda has been decimated", or "on the run," or that ISIS is a JV team. Sure this isn't all his fault, but to think that they haven't taken their eye off the ball is insane.
I’m not really sure what any administration could’ve done with the flaming pile of dung they were handed in 2008. A complex, volatile foreign plate with a heaping spoonful of economic woes.

We’ll know more down the line, too tough to judge now. I’m a far left liberal and not the biggest DNC fan but DAMN the neo cons have caused us so much damage.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:44 PM   #27
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So this IS you:

I’ve been called worse.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:45 PM   #28
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It's widely accepted that invading Iraq was stupid. I remember posting comments about how it will do nothing but destabilize the entire region and lead to sectarian violence.

Of course, Syria being in civil war has a lot to do with the overall instability too. Let's not sit here and pretend this has nothing to do with Iraq's situation.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:45 PM   #29
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Didn't Iraq deny us extending or having troops there under the SOFA?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:46 PM   #30
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That's awesome. I was posting it as a joke but he immediately went there. Bush didn't want the troops pulled out. There were set of criteria that were to be kept in-house and when the country met those criteria, the phase out would begin.

This is absolutely Obama's fault.
How long should we have kept troops over there?
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:47 PM   #31
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It didnt start with Obama and Bush can take the blame for putting US into a war with Iraq but Obama had no clue (like many of his plans) that this could and would happen if we withdrawal too soon. If you state a plan that Americans back, you better be correct that it won't affect us in the future. It looks like this one will and I haven't heard from Obama yet to try to at least keep USA interest strongholds from falling into the enemy's hands.

PS: I was against the invasion and I am a conservative.
Look, I’m in agony for the Iraqi people here, it’s terrible. I totally get what you’re saying here. But the offensive was misguided, costly and killed scores upon scores of citizens and our beloved soldiers. What was Obama supposed to do? Maintain the status quo? We’re broke. Afghanistan is costing us trillions. American soldiers dropping one after another.

Our fate was sealed in 2003. Freedom Fries for Everyone! Yay!
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:47 PM   #32
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this was GOING to happen regardless if we went in there or not.

The worst part is all of the lives lost because of this. ugh
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:49 PM   #33
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Can we all agree , Right and Left, that the real problem - the real root problem - is that the Middle East is just bat**** crazy?

I think that the problem is that all of our political leaders think they can "fix" the problem. We spend all of our time arguing and pointing fingers at each other because we keep insisting that our side can fix the unfixable.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:50 PM   #34
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this was GOING to happen regardless if we went in there or not.

The worst part is all of the lives lost because of this. ugh
I lived in Silver Spring, MD a few years ago. Just down the street from Walter Reed hospital. Used to see injured vets all over the place. Incredible young people with so much to offer, lives forever altered. FOR WHAT?!?!

Now the conservatives are saying we should’ve stuck with the course, stayed over there...let’s just serve up an entire generation on a platter.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:50 PM   #35
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Didn't Iraq deny us extending or having troops there under the SOFA?
Not only will they be overrun by terrorists, they will never be able to find their remote.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:50 PM   #36
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this was GOING to happen regardless if we went in there or not.

The worst part is all of the lives lost because of this. ugh
...lives lost for what might seem for nothing. Even if the original invasion by us was wrong, seeing some progress at least made the future brighter for our interest. We put a pull out date and the enemy was just buying their time.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:51 PM   #37
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Can we all agree , Right and Left, that the real problem - the real root problem - is that the Middle East is just bat**** crazy?

I think that the problem is that all of our political leaders think they can "fix" the problem. We spend all of our time arguing and pointing fingers at each other because we keep insisting that our side can fix the unfixable.
Salient point. Just wish we could’ve finished the job at Camp David in ’99. That is maybe the most underrated moment in history over the past generation.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:52 PM   #38
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Not only will they be overrun by terrorists, they will never be able to find their remote.
Glad to see some Mane comedy in a serious thread. I had to read what you were replying in the post to get the joke. Nice.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:52 PM   #39
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How long should we have kept troops over there?
I would say never. But when the region dies down. Certainly you would want them there for this crap. Having military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan provided several benefits.
  • It put more troop support closer to our allies in the mideast.
  • It allowed us pull troops out of Saudi Arabia, which was one of the major complaints from Islamists (not even militant ones).
  • It would allow us to monitor the situation for moments just like this one.
  • You now had military presence on either side of Iran as a check against whatever they're doing.

I love liberals though. On the one hand they pretend they're the cultured, educated and enlightened ones. So superior to us stupid, hick racist conservatives. Then as soon as you disagree with them they are calling you names like idiot and using racial slurs like whitey. But they're not the emotional ones, folks!
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:55 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by TD4HOF View Post
I lived in Silver Spring, MD a few years ago. Just down the street from Walter Reed hospital. Used to see injured vets all over the place. Incredible young people with so much to offer, lives forever altered. FOR WHAT?!?!

Now the conservatives are saying we should’ve stuck with the course, stayed over there...let’s just serve up an entire generation on a platter.
It's hard to say what the right course should have been but as of now, with all the instability in Syria, it's definetly a bad time for Iraq. If there was US troops in Iraq then I seriously doubt ISIS would be so bold in its advances.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:55 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mennonite View Post
Can we all agree , Right and Left, that the real problem - the real root problem - is that the Middle East is just bat**** crazy?

I think that the problem is that all of our political leaders think they can "fix" the problem. We spend all of our time arguing and pointing fingers at each other because we keep insisting that our side can fix the unfixable.
I completly agree... Aside from the obvious environmental aspects I also think that is why we need to make a national effort to move past fossil fuels for the majority of our energy needs. That way we can leave those people to pound sand.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:55 PM   #42
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It's a good thing we deposed our former ally/evil dictator.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:57 PM   #43
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I completly agree... Aside from the obvious environmental aspects I also think that is why we need to make a national effort to move past fossil fuels for the majority of our energy needs. That way we can leave those people to pound sand.
I am for energy independence, but I am not for letting radical, religious theocracies spread as they abuse other nations and their own people. We need to provide opportunities that allows the progressive minded mid-east countries be part of our global community. Turning our back on an entire region isn't the answer. But I agree that only helping the ones who give us something isn't an answer either.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:58 PM   #44
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I would say never. But when the region dies down. Certainly you would want them there for this crap. Having military bases in Iraq and Afghanistan provided several benefits.
  • It put more troop support closer to our allies in the mideast.
  • It allowed us pull troops out of Saudi Arabia, which was one of the major complaints from Islamists (not even militant ones).
  • It would allow us to monitor the situation for moments just like this one.
  • You now had military presence on either side of Iran as a check against whatever they're doing.

I love liberals though. On the one hand they pretend they're the cultured, educated and enlightened ones. So superior to us stupid, hick racist conservatives. Then as soon as you disagree with them they are calling you names like idiot and using racial slurs like whitey. But they're not the emotional ones, folks!
I have a set of criteria for reasonable discourse. You don’t meet them.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #45
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Just once I'd like to see Buddhist Militants poised to take over something...
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #46
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I completly agree... Aside from the obvious environmental aspects I also think that is why we need to make a national effort to move past fossil fuels for the majority of our energy needs. That way we can leave those people to pound sand.
The USA, right now, could be completely energy independent. Yes, we would have to rely on things like nuclear and coal energy, but we definitely would be energy independent. We could then start to reasonably talk about alternative energies.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #47
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Posters here almost have me convinced that blaming Obama is the right thing to do here. All they have to do is show me that Maliki wanted to let our troops stay. *jump shot*
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #48
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I am for energy independence, but I am not for letting radical, religious theocracies spread as they abuse other nations and their own people. We need to provide opportunities that allows the progressive minded mid-east countries be part of our global community. Turning our back on an entire region isn't the answer. But I agree that only helping the ones who give us something isn't an answer either.
Without oil money all those people will have are few outdated 1980's era weapons and camels. Problem really solves itself as soon as we (all western nations)remove our economic interests from the region.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:00 PM   #49
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I have a set of criteria for reasonable discourse. You don’t meet them.
It's ok, I already know your only criterion: "Anyone that doesn't agree with me is subject to scorn and racial slurs. To all others I am open-minded and enlightened."
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:01 PM   #50
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Have a lot of work to do to ever become energy independent. Redoing the grid system in America through the DoE would be step one. Complete mess.
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