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Old 06-12-2014, 12:10 PM   #101
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So prove me wrong, but be honest... how many guns do you own and why? I get it if you say that you have a hunting rifle and one handgun for home security.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:12 PM   #102
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You need a crayon sharpener and nap.
I do need a nap I'll grant you that.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:13 PM   #103
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So prove me wrong, but be honest... how many guns do you own and why? I get it if you say that you have a hunting rifle and one handgun for home security.
So to clarify, the second amendment only applies to hunting and home defense handguns?
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:16 PM   #104
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Tell me more about Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, Somalia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, and Uganda.

Tell me more about how none of those wars are mistakes, since we haven't heard a single peep from you regarding those conflicts. Hypocrite.
How many of these conflicts were fabricated off of outright lies Watch the name calling.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:16 PM   #105
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For a democracy to work the population first has to be educated. In the USA, our educational system is broke and it's also divided and political. Only an "educated" population can overcome a overbearing, meddling and broke federal bureaucracy. You are correct in that the feds are slaves to the powerful lobbys, but the only way to change that is to vote those people out, and have things like term limits in congress (which will never happen because congress works for congress and it's a country club mentality).

The middle class is what makes the USA the greatest nation on the planet and as far as I can see, Obama has not helped the middle class one iota. In fact, he's weakening the middle class with just about every decision he makes.

The middle class is dependent on three very intrumental things: a functioning educational system that allows the lower classes to work their way up (this is broke for the most part in America), a priority on families to stay together (one father, one mother as these two conjoined always increase the families' wealth where as single parents do not) and a population that cares about it's leadership (and this is broke too, look at Obama's corrupt administration).

Also, the media has to be objective in it's reporting. This too is broke. The liberal media props up it's candidates, see Obama.

I couldn't agree with you more in terms of education. You say Obama has done nothing in this regard? You've been under a rock or simply just choose to ignore what he's trying to do on this matter. You KNOW he's big on education, he only mentions it in every single speech. And didn't he just recently pass a bill that allows student loans to become easier to pay back. I understand you don't want to give him anything but can you at least be honest about what he hopes for and is trying to do in terms of education. And I suggest you go and dig up some info on just how our universities became what they are. They didn't always used to be so expensive. They actually used to be practically no-profit when they first started. It was the greed and fear of the top 1% who changed all of this. They don't want an even playing field. They don't want your sons and daughters to go to college and be an equal player. And if they do, by God they're going to be buried in such debt it won't matter that they went to college. States cut taxes and so therefor had to raise the cost of state university tuition. The 1% have you convinced that cutting their taxes and keeping their loopholes open is their American right. Yet do they care the cost of tuition raises many times faster then the cost of living? No they don't. They want this. It means only their sons and daughters will be getting educated (without all the debt to pay back) while your sons and daughters struggle for most of their adult life trying to pay this loan back. The 1% know exactly what you are saying is true. That an equally educated America is the ONLY true threat to them and their biased laws that favor them.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:18 PM   #106
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So to clarify, the second amendment only applies to hunting and home defense handguns?
I don't know... the second ammendment only seems to speak to the states having the right to organize millitias. You're dodging the question now.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:21 PM   #107
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I don't know... the second ammendment only seems to speak to the states having the right to organize millitias. You're dodging the question now.
Bro, I just don't want to be drone-struck for having the audacity to own legal firearms. Derka derka, mohammed jihad.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:25 PM   #108
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:25 PM   #109
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #110
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Bro, I just don't want to be drone-struck for having the audacity to own legal firearms. Derka derka, mohammed jihad.
Look, I was admitedly coloring you in a certain light, which I will admit may be inaccurate. I was simply giving you the oppertunity to prove to me that the reason you own firearms is not due to a delusion based-off of a precieved notion of your government coming to get you.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:26 PM   #111
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John Lennon sang "Happiness Is a Warm Gun"'

Lennon said I just thought it was a fantastic, insane thing to say. A warm gun means you just shot something...............
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #112
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I couldn't agree with you more in terms of education. You say Obama has done nothing in this regard? You've been under a rock or simply just choose to ignore what he's trying to do on this matter. You KNOW he's big on education, he only mentions it in every single speech. And didn't he just recently pass a bill that allows student loans to become easier to pay back. I understand you don't want to give him anything but can you at least be honest about what he hopes for and is trying to do in terms of education. And I suggest you go and dig up some info on just how our universities became what they are. They didn't always used to be so expensive. They actually used to be practically no-profit when they first started. It was the greed and fear of the top 1% who changed all of this. They don't want an even playing field. They don't want your sons and daughters to go to college and be an equal player. And if they do, by God they're going to be buried in such debt it won't matter that they went to college. States cut taxes and so therefor had to raise the cost of state university tuition. The 1% have you convinced that cutting their taxes and keeping their loopholes open is their American right. Yet do they care the cost of tuition raises many times faster then the cost of living? No they don't. They want this. It means only their sons and daughters will be getting educated (without all the debt to pay back) while your sons and daughters struggle for most of their adult life trying to pay this loan back. The 1% know exactly what you are saying is true. That an equally educated America is the ONLY true threat to them and their biased laws that favor them.
Make all universities (state run universities for sure) non profit, I'm all for that. Also, make all hospitals non profit too.

The middle class is the glue that holds this country together. Period. What has Obama done to increase the power of the middle class exactly? Obama is a big supporter of unions and so I agree that he talks about education being a priority but what is really behind this? Does he really care about education or is he sucking up to the teacher's unions?

This country has put billions of $ into the educational system (K-12) and we are still fighting the same crap we were fighting 50 years ago--the public school system is no better today than it was in the 1980's, in fact, it's worse. Spending money on schools does not necessarily translate to a better education. Where Obama and his ilk fail and continue to fail is by enabling the poor to stay poor instead of enabling them to work their way up. You want to blame the 1% for this yet you don't want to blame Obama?

The liberals love to blame the shifty 1% for all this countries ills. Yet libs can't admit that some simple things can be done to INCREASE THE POWER OF THE MIDDLE CLASS WHICH IS WHAT MADE THIS COUNTRY SO GREAT.

Work on the middle class or GTHO. Obama has not done one thing to help the middle class out.

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Old 06-12-2014, 12:31 PM   #113
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So to clarify, the second amendment only applies to hunting and home defense handguns?
Are you arguing the opposite? Does it apply to nukes?

There are so many silly ways for this argument to go.

To the OP - nobody blames the gun, they blame the lunatic. 5 years, 10 years, etc... after the incident we can still remember the names of the shooters, but we can't remember the names of the weapons he/they were carrying. No one says that James Holmes should be released, but his weapons should be locked up forever. Thats a silly argument.

What a lot of people blame is the ability of insane people to get guns so easily. Yes, anyone can buy a big knife, but the effort to kill someone or even a bunch of people with a knife is about 100 times harder than with a gun.

As to cars and knifes, they have a very distinct primary utility that isn't first and foremost destroying something else. A gun is meant to destroy a clay target, take the life of game, knock down a target, etc...

The issue should not be limiting guns to law abiding citizens, but how to keep guns out of the hands of people that will go out and use them to kill other law abiding citizens. But there are limits already in place to the right to bear arms. The question, like all things is where can we find a balance to protect that right, but also protect the innate right to life and "promote the general Welfare" (as is a main purpose of the constitution stated in the preamble) of the United States citizenry?
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:32 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Pony Boy View Post
John Lennon sang "Happiness Is a Warm Gun"'

Lennon said I just thought it was a fantastic, insane thing to say. A warm gun means you just shot something...............
He might have been talking about his dick...

She's not a girl who
misses much
Do-do-do-do-do, oh yeah

She's well acquainted
With the touch of a velvet hand
Like a lizard on a window pane

Man in the crowd
With the multicoloured mirrors
On his hobnail boots

Lying with his eyes
While his hands are busy
Working overtime

The soap impression of his wife
Which he ate and donated
to the National Trust

I need a fix cause I'm going down
Down to the bits that I've left up town
I need a fix cause I'm going down

Mother Superior jumped the gun
Mother Superior jumped the gun
Mother Superior jumped the gun
(BIS)

Happiness is a warm gun
( bang bang shoot shoot )
Happiness is a warm gun, yes it is
(bang bang shoot shoot)

When I hold you in my arms (oh yes)
When I feel my finger on your trigger (oh yes)
I know nobody can do me no harm
Because
happiness is a warm gun, momma
Happiness is a warm gun
-Yes it is.
Happiness is a warm, yes it is...
Gun!
Well don't ya know that happiness is a warm gun, momma? (yeah)
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:35 PM   #115
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Mandatory waiting period for anyone who wants to commit murder. Also, national registration persons with mental illness. Sensible people control laws.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:37 PM   #116
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He might have been talking about his dick...
He said he saw the Quote "Happiness Is a Warm Gun" on the cover of a gun magazine and thought it was a fantastic, insane thing to say...........pretty ironic don't you think.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:41 PM   #117
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He said he saw the Quote "Happiness Is a Warm Gun" on the cover of a gun magazine and thought it was a fantastic, insane thing to say...........pretty ironic don't you think.
Absolutly ironic... sadly.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:43 PM   #118
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Are you arguing the opposite? Does it apply to nukes?

There are so many silly ways for this argument to go.

To the OP - nobody blames the gun, they blame the lunatic. 5 years, 10 years, etc... after the incident we can still remember the names of the shooters, but we can't remember the names of the weapons he/they were carrying. No one says that James Holmes should be released, but his weapons should be locked up forever. Thats a silly argument.

What a lot of people blame is the ability of insane people to get guns so easily. Yes, anyone can buy a big knife, but the effort to kill someone or even a bunch of people with a knife is about 100 times harder than with a gun.

As to cars and knifes, they have a very distinct primary utility that isn't first and foremost destroying something else. A gun is meant to destroy a clay target, take the life of game, knock down a target, etc...

The issue should not be limiting guns to law abiding citizens, but how to keep guns out of the hands of people that will go out and use them to kill other law abiding citizens. But there are limits already in place to the right to bear arms. The question, like all things is where can we find a balance to protect that right, but also protect the innate right to life and "promote the general Welfare" (as is a main purpose of the constitution stated in the preamble) of the United States citizenry?
There should be some sort of Godwin's law corollary for Nuke analogies in gun control debates.

Anyway, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If my local police department needs "assault" rifles to deal with the local riff raff, then so do I. Simple enough?
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:43 PM   #119
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How many of these conflicts were fabricated off of outright lies Watch the name calling.
What? They are all illegal wars that this administration started or expanded. Iraq was over in 2009.

Why don't you care about any of those?
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:49 PM   #120
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What? They are all illegal wars that this administration started or expanded. Iraq was over in 2009.

Why don't you care about any of those?
You are confusing millitary opperations with full-blown troop deployed war zones... Do I agree with 100% of it... no, I think we should have pulled out of Afghanistan years ago... but I prefer the stratgy Obama has to direct drone usage and air strikes against terror cells as opposed to attacking AND occupying countries that didn't attack us in the fist place just to make a money grab.
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:50 PM   #121
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There should be some sort of Godwin's law corollary for Nuke analogies in gun control debates.
Fine, but the comparison of guns to cars is an equally ridiculous corollary.


Edit: or better yet the guns to spoons that make people fat argument.

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Anyway, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If my local police department needs "assault" rifles to deal with the local riff raff, then so do I. Simple enough?
Works for me. I assume going through the same amount of training, background check, etc... is ok for you as well then?

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Old 06-12-2014, 01:12 PM   #122
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Fine, but the comparison of guns to cars is an equally ridiculous corollary.
Why is that?

http://www.duifoundation.org/drunkdr...cularhomocide/

Quote:
Statistics show that almost twice as many people die in vehicle crashes per year than by any other form of homicide. Also, more people are murdered in crashes where alcohol is involved per year than are killed by guns.
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Works for me. I assume going through the same amount of training, background check, etc... is ok for you as well then?
Yeah, we should start hinging all of our Constitutional Rights on a governmental approval process. Like Government Journalism Certifications before they allow you to publish your opinion.. Or Voter Education Camps and mandatory testing to prove it's safe to let you vote.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:19 PM   #123
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You are confusing millitary opperations with full-blown troop deployed war zones... Do I agree with 100% of it... no, I think we should have pulled out of Afghanistan years ago... but I prefer the stratgy Obama has to direct drone usage and air strikes against terror cells as opposed to attacking AND occupying countries that didn't attack us in the fist place just to make a money grab.
You think drone bombing civilians is a good idea? Not me. I think it's illegal, and does nothing except promote groups like ISIS to form, which lead to oppression, widespread suffering, and death. There are more boots on the ground now in Afghanistan than when Bush left office. We have also had boots on the ground in most of the illegal wars that I listed, so not sure what you're talking about.

I also think it's a HORRIBLE idea to support extremist factions (Ukraine, Somalia, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.) to topple existing legitimate governments, just because the legitimate governments aren't under US control.

Being the main contributor behind global instability shouldn't be US foreign policy.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:27 PM   #124
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You think drone bombing civilians is a good idea? Not me. I think it's illegal, and does nothing except promote groups like ISIS to form, which lead to oppression, widespread suffering, and death. There are more boots on the ground now in Afghanistan than when Bush left office. We have also had boots on the ground in most of the illegal wars that I listed, so not sure what you're talking about.

I also think it's a HORRIBLE idea to support extremist factions (Ukraine, Somalia, Syria, Libya, Egypt, etc.) to topple existing legitimate governments, just because the legitimate governments aren't under US control.

Being the main contributor behind global instability shouldn't be US foreign policy.
Riiiiight.... Something tells me by your original impassioned response that I hit a nerve in regards to your feelings about Bush v Obama. Clearly you supported the Iraq War when it was fashionable now you want to play the part of the pacifist because your guy isn't in office anymore. If Bush had Obama's track record on killing terrorists you'd have wanted to put him on Rushmore. Whatever, you can have the last word.
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Old 06-12-2014, 02:20 PM   #125
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Wait... when did we start talking about drunk driving rather than just cars? I thought we were blaming the cars, not the drunks?!?!


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Yeah, we should start hinging all of our Constitutional Rights on a governmental approval process. Like Government Journalism Certifications before they allow you to publish your opinion.. Or Voter Education Camps and mandatory testing to prove it's safe to let you vote.
Almost all of our rights are limited to some degree. The biggest imposition to all rights is the general concept that you have the right and freedom to do anything, so long as that right does not limit or infringe on others rights to do as they please. Civic values often override rights so that things may be accomplished.

If on one hand you claim there is no limit to the second amendment, but on the other assert that claiming a right to bear nuclear arms is ridiculously out of proportion to the reality of a debate (i.e. Godwin's law), where does the middle fall? I'm actually curious and appreciate a good discussion on the topic, because I truly believe there is always a fine line between all civil liberty, responsibility and loss of right.
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