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Old 06-16-2014, 08:08 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Why would we do that? Pelosi is a great leader in the house. HoR actually did it's job when she was majority leader. Reid,only if there was a better choice.
anyone who likes Pelosi is a sick individual. Congrats.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:13 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27 View Post
If the Tea Party runs competent candidates, and not morons like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, et al, they can be competitive because the message resonates, no matter what the moronic media or wishful thinking Demorats want you to believe.

It's got a grass roots nature, so its growth will be both organic and uneven, which will prompt many fools to say 'the TP is dead', only to have it bite them in the arse like last night. I'm not a TP member (or Repub, for that matter), but feel that candidates like Brat, Ron Johnson, and Tom Coburn are as close to a common sense legislator that exists right now.

Cantor was exposed as a wolf in sheep's clothing and guys like Boehner exposed themselves by weeping for his demise. The Republican civil war is far from over but the question remains as to whether it will remain stagnant or embark on a totally different tack.
there's no civil war, as the libby left likes to paint it. Fact is, a two term Dem president is abnormal so for the last 6 years or so the mainstream media has painted the GOP as dysfunctional because it adds to the libby lefts agenda. The GOP has sold out to the Dems for too long and now there is some culling of the herd in congress.

I wish there was a viable third party because it would be an even more constitutionally conservative contingent in DC.
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:17 AM   #78
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It was just a joke. Relax.

What Cantor's loss does mean is that the extremists are winning the helm of the GOP and American politics is going to get a whole lot uglier. Think of this, at its base the Cantor loss reflects that the nativists in the Tea Party (who despise immigrants in general and hispanics specifically) have spoken. The rest of the GOP in Washington is not going to go near any comprehensive immigration bill in the future. The Cantor loss also points out that the radicals in the Tea Party are no longer going to buy the bull**** from the party leaders where they run on extremist views and then once elected, simply go back to serving their corporate masters. No. Now the Tea Party wants to see some real extremism out of their candidates. Privatize SS, get rid of the EPA, Medicare, Medicaid, Dept. of Education, etc etc etc. Some REAL third rail issues.

It's kind of sad that the majority of Democrats in this country still haven't figured out that their party has been pulling the same bait and switch on them for decades. How they can still believe in Obama, who is basically a creature invented by Goldman Sachs, is beyond me, but they do. Now, they're putting their faith in Hillary, which would simply be a continuation of Obama's Wall Street politics. At any rate, the Right in Washington is about to get much more extreme which means that the banksters, and Wall Street (who despise extremism of any kind) are going to throw their weight behind the Dems, who have become their darlings. Like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown and Franken (and a few others) are going to have to leave that party if they hope to retain any kind of progressive credentials.

Basically, the next presidential election will probably come down to Koch Brothers extremist libertarians vs. Wall Street and the banksters. I weep for America.
extremists, really? This is why I can't stand your politics Roh, you paint a conservative movement as extremist.

Tell me this, are you OK with the IRS targeting Tea Party groups?
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:40 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
extremists, really? This is why I can't stand your politics Roh, you paint a conservative movement as extremist.

Tell me this, are you OK with the IRS targeting Tea Party groups?
Conservatives are those who believe in gradual systemic change accompanied by sober reflection and caution. Extremists are those who want to tear down immediately and replace, guided (usually) by ideology.

Raygun's 50% tax break for the rich and corporations was extremist. Getting rid of Glass/Steagle was extremist. Implementing supply side economics was extremist. All of these moves ripped down 80 years of progressive evolution and replaced it with ideologically founded Right Wing disasters.

And no, the IRS should have no involvement in politics whatsoever, but then I thought Scalia was wrong when he chose Bush for president. Another extremist move.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:24 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
extremists, really? This is why I can't stand your politics Roh, you paint a conservative movement as extremist.

Tell me this, are you OK with the IRS targeting Tea Party groups?

When Will Republican Leaders Fight Back?
If the GOP is unwilling to stand up to radicals, it might
as well just rename itself the Committee to Elect Hillary Clinton.
David Frum Jun 12 2014, 11:36 AM ET


Quote:
Eric Cantor tried to appease Republican radicals. They turned on him anyway.

John Boehner has tried to resist them. They just overwhelmed him.

Mitt Romney tried to join them—and in doing so fastened onto his party the platform that lost the presidential election of 2012.

At some point, Republican leaders must recognize that they have a fight on their hands whether they like it or not. If they refuse to join that fight, they
will be devoured anyway. If they surrender, they condemn the whole conservative project in America to the destructive leadership of fanatics
(and the cynics who make their living by duping fanatics).

This lesson keeps being administered. Republican leaders repeatedly refuse to learn.

The political exemplar most relevant to today's GOP is not the oft-invoked Ronald Reagan. It is Tony Blair, who revived his party by standing up to its
most extreme elements. There is no such leadership yet on the Republican side. If Republicans don’t develop it soon, we might just as well already
rename our dysfunctional party the Committee to Elect Hillary Clinton.

"Do not follow a multitude to do wrong." Whoever wrote that probably wasn't a practicing politician. But the author knew something about how to save
politicians from their most self-defeating impulses.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...t-back/372661/
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:16 AM   #81
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If Cantor won, then the liberals would be touting the big business wins again diatribe. He loses, now it means something else negative. Like they'd ever vote for a republican. Oh, but Hunstman... Sure, they like the novelty of pretending to find some no name republican they'd support, but pit him against any democrat, and they still vote democrat and they know it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:02 PM   #82
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You know something is drastically wrong when Socialist Progressives try to paint the US Constitution and anyone who believes in it as "radical".

Never forget for a moment that Socialist Progressives are the single biggest threat to the USA.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:39 PM   #83
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You know something is drastically wrong when Socialist Progressives try to paint the US Constitution and anyone who believes in it as "radical".

Never forget for a moment that Socialist Progressives are the single biggest threat to the USA.
Ah, more dogma. How refreshing. Here's what those socialist progressive anti-Americans and liberals have been up to since the turn of the last century:

The GI Bill
Endangered Species Act
Environmental Laws
The Space Program
The Peace Corps
Americorps
The Civil Rights Movement
Earned Income Tax Credit
Family & Medical Leave Act
Consumer Product Safety Commission
Americans With Disabilities Act
Freedom of Information Act
Women's right to control their reproductive future
Allowing citizens to view their own credit records
The Internet
Balancing the federal budget
The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
Lobbying Disclosure Act
"Motor-Voter" Act
The Voting Rights Act
Unemployment Insurance
Medicare/Medicaid
Food Stamps/WIC
Social Security
Peace between Israel and Egypt
Peace between Israel and Jordan
The Department of Education
The Department of Energy
The Department of Transportation
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
Labor Laws
The Marshall Plan
Winning World War II
Food Safety Laws
Workplace Safety Laws
The Tennessee Valley Project
The Civilian Conservation Corps
The Securites and Exchange Commission
Women's Right to Vote
Universal Public Education
National Weather Service
Product Labeling Laws
Truth in Advertising Laws
Morrill Land Grant Act
Rural Electrification
Public Universities
Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Public Broadcasting

Those unAmerican slimy bastards!

Last edited by Rohirrim; 06-16-2014 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:30 AM   #84
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So again Roh, are you OK with the IRS targeting the Tea Party?
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:47 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Ah, more dogma. How refreshing. Here's what those socialist progressive anti-Americans and liberals have been up to since the turn of the last century:


Women's right to control their reproductive future
(on demand abortion and the state funded death of 57 million + PEOPLE)
Allowing citizens to view their own credit records
The Internet
(, YES WE KNOW IT WAS INVENTED BY GORE!)
Balancing the federal budget
lol, LIES, LIES, LIES
The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
Lobbying Disclosure Act
...
The Department of Education
(BROKEN)
The Department of Energy
(BROKEN)
The Department of Transportation
(MORE CRAP, NEEDLESS FED GOV. CRAP, BROKEN)
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
(BROKEN, A JOKE, PURE CRAP, ENSLAVEMENT OF MINORITIES)
Labor Laws
The Marshall Plan
Winning World War II
(, YAH, SO NO ONE ELSE WANTED THIS GTFO!, THANKS AL GORE!)
Women's Right to Vote
(Um, you sure bro, Dems were the very first bigots in Politics)
...
Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
(BAILOUTS FOR BANKS, TOO BIG TO FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!)
...
Public Broadcasting
(POLITICAL, AND NON-OBJECTIVE AND MORE WASTED MONEY)


Those unAmerican slimy bastards!
, so laws, laws and more laws. But these supposed progressives refuse to admit that the unborn are people too.

I'm sorry, but much of the stuff you are listing is supported my both parties, even the wrong stuff.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:58 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Ah, more dogma. How refreshing. Here's what those socialist progressive anti-Americans and liberals have been up to since the turn of the last century:

The GI Bill
Endangered Species Act
Environmental Laws
The Space Program
The Peace Corps
Americorps
The Civil Rights Movement
Earned Income Tax Credit
Family & Medical Leave Act
Consumer Product Safety Commission
Americans With Disabilities Act
Freedom of Information Act
Women's right to control their reproductive future
Allowing citizens to view their own credit records
The Internet
Balancing the federal budget
The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
Lobbying Disclosure Act
"Motor-Voter" Act
The Voting Rights Act
Unemployment Insurance
Medicare/Medicaid
Food Stamps/WIC
Social Security
Peace between Israel and Egypt
Peace between Israel and Jordan
The Department of Education
The Department of Energy
The Department of Transportation
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
Labor Laws
The Marshall Plan
Winning World War II
Food Safety Laws
Workplace Safety Laws
The Tennessee Valley Project
The Civilian Conservation Corps
The Securites and Exchange Commission
Women's Right to Vote
Universal Public Education
National Weather Service
Product Labeling Laws
Truth in Advertising Laws
Morrill Land Grant Act
Rural Electrification
Public Universities
Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Public Broadcasting

Those unAmerican slimy bastards!
Where is the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Oh, more democrats voted against that than republicans. Oops. Even KKK democrat Robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bill, but all was forgiven as long as he voted the party line the rest of his career. Hypocrites.

Last edited by barryr; 06-17-2014 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:11 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post

Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Ah, more dogma. How refreshing. Here's what those socialist progressive anti-Americans and liberals have been up to since the turn of the last century:

Women's right to control their reproductive future
(on demand abortion and the state funded death of 57 million + PEOPLE)
This argument would require its own thread
Allowing citizens to view their own credit records

The Internet
(, YES WE KNOW IT WAS INVENTED BY GORE!)
The internet is the product of publicly funded research generated under liberal administrations since the 40s
Balancing the federal budget
lol, LIES, LIES, LIES
Last president to balance the budget: Clinton. Within a year, Bush had trashed it.
The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
Lobbying Disclosure Act
...
The Department of Education
(BROKEN)
Needs work. Fundamentally a sound concept to have a national education policy as our major competitor countries do.
The Department of Energy
(BROKEN)
Conservatives have been tearing down the energy budget for decades.
The Department of Transportation
(MORE CRAP, NEEDLESS FED GOV. CRAP, BROKEN)
Really? No federal oversight of national highways, railways, airports, seaports, etc.? Another recipient of conservative budget attacks.
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
(BROKEN, A JOKE, PURE CRAP, ENSLAVEMENT OF MINORITIES)
Bull****, bull**** and more bull****.
Labor Laws
The Marshall Plan
Winning World War II
(, YAH, SO NO ONE ELSE WANTED THIS GTFO!, THANKS AL GORE!)
FDR and Harry Truman
Women's Right to Vote
(Um, you sure bro, Dems were the very first bigots in Politics)
Trust me when I say this, women's suffrage was not a "conservative" issue. It is pure liberalism.
...
Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
(BAILOUTS FOR BANKS, TOO BIG TO FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!)
Protection of small depositors
...
Public Broadcasting
(POLITICAL, AND NON-OBJECTIVE AND MORE WASTED MONEY)
Better than any other media forum on television. Unfortunately, too full of facts and boring for the average American.


, so laws, laws and more laws. But these supposed progressives refuse to admit that the unborn are people too.

I'm sorry, but much of the stuff you are listing is supported my both parties, even the wrong stuff.
Some liberals/progressives agree that life begins at conception, some don't. I think the social argument over abortion is still in flux. Roe v. Wade at least ended women dying from illegal abortions. Like drug legalization, it's a complex social issue and there are no perfect solutions.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:27 AM   #88
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Some liberals/progressives agree that life begins at conception, some don't. I think the social argument over abortion is still in flux. Roe v. Wade at least ended women dying from illegal abortions. Like drug legalization, it's a complex social issue and there are no perfect solutions.
No one wants women to die of back ally abortions but the fact remains that RvW has been abused over the last 30+ years. You simply cannot justify 57 million + deaths (more than that because CA does not even count how many abortions happen in that state). It's tantamount to genocide, especially in the minority communities.


When the Supreme Court handed down its now-infamous Roe v. Wade decision, it did so based on a new, previously undefined "right of privacy" which it "discovered" in so-called "emanations" of "penumbrae" of the Constitution.

Of course, as constitutional law it was a disaster.

But never once did the Supreme Court declare abortion itself to be a constitutional right.

Instead the Supreme Court said:

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins . . . the judiciary at this point in the development of man's knowledge is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."

Then the High Court made a key admission:

"If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case [i.e., "Roe" who sought an abortion], of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life is then guaranteed specifically by the [14th] Amendment."

The fact is, the 14th Amendment couldn't be clearer:

". . . nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law."
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:27 AM   #89
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^ Lol. You put that Al Gore invented 'the internet' on your list. Where is the KKK on your list? After all, we do know that Democrats founded it while Republicans were fighting against slavery.

Also if Medicare was so great, why is Obamacare cutting payments to it? What are we up to now $80T in unfunded taxpayer liabilities?
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:29 AM   #90
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No one wants women to die of back ally abortions but the fact remains that RvW has been abused over the last 30+ years. You simply cannot justify 57 million + deaths (more than that because CA does not even count how many abortions happen in that state). It's tantamount to genocide, especially in the minority communities.


When the Supreme Court handed down its now-infamous Roe v. Wade decision, it did so based on a new, previously undefined "right of privacy" which it "discovered" in so-called "emanations" of "penumbrae" of the Constitution.

Of course, as constitutional law it was a disaster.

But never once did the Supreme Court declare abortion itself to be a constitutional right.

Instead the Supreme Court said:

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins . . . the judiciary at this point in the development of man's knowledge is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."

Then the High Court made a key admission:

"If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case [i.e., "Roe" who sought an abortion], of course, collapses, for the fetus' right to life is then guaranteed specifically by the [14th] Amendment."

The fact is, the 14th Amendment couldn't be clearer:

". . . nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law."
I didn't hear the conservatives wailing when the SCOTUS also "discovered" the personhood of corporations using the same reasoning.

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Old 06-17-2014, 11:33 AM   #91
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^ Lol. You put that Al Gore invented 'the internet' on your list. Where is the KKK on your list? After all, we do know that Democrats founded it while Republicans were fighting against slavery.

Also if Medicare was so great, why is Obamacare cutting payments to it? What are we up to now $80T in unfunded taxpayer liabilities?
I didn't put Al Gore. Tombstone did. I put federal funding for the science that led to the internet, which is undeniable.

Medicare is a great idea that needs help. Having worked in the field for many years, and from recent personal experience with an elderly loved one, I can tell you, a massive number of health organizations in the U.S. treat Medicare like a cash cow. Fraud is rampant. And that's not because our government sucks. It's because there are a whole bunch of greedy bastards out there who believe it is perfectly reasonable for them to rip off the government. When I was involved in USN contracts years ago, I ran into the same thing. Contractors always charged the Navy ten times more than they would charge anybody else.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:55 AM   #92
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I didn't put Al Gore. Tombstone did. I put federal funding for the science that led to the internet, which is undeniable.

Medicare is a great idea that needs help. Having worked in the field for many years, and from recent personal experience with an elderly loved one, I can tell you, a massive number of health organizations in the U.S. treat Medicare like a cash cow. Fraud is rampant. And that's not because our government sucks. It's because there are a whole bunch of greedy bastards out there who believe it is perfectly reasonable for them to rip off the government. When I was involved in USN contracts years ago, I ran into the same thing. Contractors always charged the Navy ten times more than they would charge anybody else.
I value Medicare and SS too, both are necessary. The feds just need to figure out a way to manage them correctly. My first suggestions would be to lower the cost of health insurance via lowing inflation (the value of the dollar is key) and breaking up the health insurance cartel. As for SS, it will continue to be a financial burden but until the feds control spending (how about auditing the federal reserve to begin with?) and where tax payer money is going, there's little the feds can do.

Roh, of course fraud is rampant because the system allows abuse! This is why Obamacare is destined to fail.

As for private industry abusing the fed gov., YES. But this is why the feds should hire an independed auditor (an objective auditor) to randomnly select all contracts, for example, Naval contracts where a company like Electric Boat is building a billion dollar sub and hold the private contractor responsible for its cost.

If a private contractor tells the Pentagon it will build a platform for X number of dollars, then hold that contractor responsible for building the platform for the bidded out cost, and NO MORE. If the contractor fails to deliver said platform at the bidded out price (let's say $10m for a plane) then that contractor is SOL but it still needs to deliver on its contract, period.

AND AUDIT THAT CONTRACTOR!

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Old 06-17-2014, 11:58 AM   #93
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I didn't hear the conservatives wailing when the SCOTUS also "discovered" the personhood of corporations using the same reasoning.
another bad decision by the SCOTUS, thanks for pointing that out!
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:05 PM   #94
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I value Medicare and SS too, both are necessary. The feds just need to figure out a way to manage them correctly. My first suggestions would be to lower the cost of health insurance via lowing inflation (the value of the dollar is key) and breaking up the health insurance cartel. As for SS, it will continue to be a financial burden but until the feds control spending (how about auditing the federal reserve to begin with?) and where tax payer money is going, there's little the feds can do.

Roh, of course fraud is rampant because the system allows abuse! This is why Obamacare is destined to fail.

Want to solve the SS problem? Here is a start:


Any earnings from $0 - $113,700 a year are subject to the tax, whether your are employed by a business, government or self-employed.

Right now, that is the cap. Any $ earned in excess of that total is not subject to it. Why? (Well, at the time it was a big compromise for FDR, stating that those who would likely reap the benefits of using it, would be subject to footing the bill for it)

As a result, the burden of funding SS is pretty much on the impoverished, poor and middle-class. With self-employed millionaires and millionaires only being subject to pay their rate on the first $113,700 -- nothing after that. Not only that, but we have had several administrations (notoriously Reagan) who helped divert money from the SS/Medicare fund and place it elsewhere for their own political motives, which is/was reprehensible.

Insanity.

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Old 06-17-2014, 12:18 PM   #95
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Where is the 1964 Civil Rights Act? Oh, more democrats voted against that than republicans. Oops. Even KKK democrat Robert Byrd tried to filibuster the bill, but all was forgiven as long as he voted the party line the rest of his career. Hypocrites.
We're talking liberals/progressives and conservatives here, barry, not Repug and Dem. Try to catch up.

Barry doesn't know that one of the main founders of the modern progressive movement was a Republican: Teddy Roosevelt. Up until about twenty years ago there were a bunch of "liberal" Republicans, like Nelson Rockefeller. They all got driven out after the Reagan neocon revolution. In fact, if Reagan were still around, the Tea Party would kick him out too.

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Old 06-17-2014, 02:09 PM   #96
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Government programs are prone to abuse? Just look at the VA and what is happening on our borders right now for a couple examples, although there are many to choose from.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post

Want to solve the SS problem? Here is a start:


Any earnings from $0 - $113,700 a year are subject to the tax, whether your are employed by a business, government or self-employed.

Right now, that is the cap. Any $ earned in excess of that total is not subject to it. Why? (Well, at the time it was a big compromise for FDR, stating that those who would likely reap the benefits of using it, would be subject to footing the bill for it)

As a result, the burden of funding SS is pretty much on the impoverished, poor and middle-class. With self-employed millionaires and millionaires only being subject to pay their rate on the first $113,700 -- nothing after that. Not only that, but we have had several administrations (notoriously Reagan) who helped divert money from the SS/Medicare fund and place it elsewhere for their own political motives, which is/was reprehensible.

Insanity.
Fair enough, it's a start. But you also have to allow for some serious cutbacks in other Federal programs, many of them domestic, like the Department of Education, the IRS (the tax laws and loopholes), even the Postal Service needs to be revised. I'm not an advocate of completely dismantling the Fed Gov., but I do insist on accountability and severely culling federal programs that waste money (pension plans, etc.)

Also, audit the Fed reserve. Much of our $ is going overseas to other countries and banks. Why?

Audit the Federal Reserve to see where this rabbit hole leads. I guarantee you that both you and I will NOT like what we find.

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Old 06-17-2014, 02:30 PM   #98
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Fair enough, it's a start. But you also have to allow for some serious cutbacks in other Federal programs, many of them domestic, like the Department of Education, the IRS (the tax laws and loopholes), even the Postal Service needs to be revised. I'm not an advocate of completely dismantling the Fed Gov., but I do insist on accountability and severely culling federal programs that waste money (pension plans, etc.)

Also, audit the Fed reserve. Much of our $ is going overseas to other countries and banks. Why?

Audit the Federal Reserve to see where this rabbit hole leads. I guarantee you that both you and I will NOT like what we find.
I was just more or less bringing up that the funding issue with SS could be resolved if the tax that supports the program was equally applied to all earned income's in America.

I agree that cuts in certain areas need to be done, but that doesn't really help SS/Medicare become more sustainable. The flow of income (based on tax, FICA) that supports it certainly would though. I didn't realize that this was the case until a while ago, but damn -- blows my mind.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:33 PM   #99
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Since the issue came up...

Quote:
One of the most durable myths in recent history is that the religious right, the coalition of conservative evangelicals and fundamentalists, emerged as a political movement in response to the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling legalizing abortion. The tale goes something like this: Evangelicals, who had been politically quiescent for decades, were so morally outraged by Roe that they resolved to organize in order to overturn it.

This myth of origins is oft repeated by the movement’s leaders. In his 2005 book, Jerry Falwell, the firebrand fundamentalist preacher, recounts his distress upon reading about the ruling in the Jan. 23, 1973, edition of the Lynchburg News: “I sat there staring at the Roe v. Wade story,” Falwell writes, “growing more and more fearful of the consequences of the Supreme Court’s act and wondering why so few voices had been raised against it.” Evangelicals, he decided, needed to organize.

Some of these anti-Roe crusaders even went so far as to call themselves “new abolitionists,” invoking their antebellum predecessors who had fought to eradicate slavery.

But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism.

Today, evangelicals make up the backbone of the pro-life movement, but it hasn’t always been so. Both before and for several years after Roe, evangelicals were overwhelmingly indifferent to the subject, which they considered a “Catholic issue.” In 1968, for instance, a symposium sponsored by the Christian Medical Society and Christianity Today, the flagship magazine of evangelicalism, refused to characterize abortion as sinful, citing “individual health, family welfare, and social responsibility” as justifications for ending a pregnancy. In 1971, delegates to the Southern Baptist Convention in St. Louis, Missouri, passed a resolution encouraging “Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.” The convention, hardly a redoubt of liberal values, reaffirmed that position in 1974, one year after Roe, and again in 1976.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz34w0OqYSI
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:04 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
I was just more or less bringing up that the funding issue with SS could be resolved if the tax that supports the program was equally applied to all earned income's in America.

I agree that cuts in certain areas need to be done, but that doesn't really help SS/Medicare become more sustainable. The flow of income (based on tax, FICA) that supports it certainly would though. I didn't realize that this was the case until a while ago, but damn -- blows my mind.
My point was that SS is such a huge expense that simply creating a new tax won't solve the problem. And while I'm willing to listen to a new tax, I refuse to initiate any new tax until the Fed. Gov CUTS BACK. Period.

Cutting back federal spending absolutely will help fund SS. If you don't have tax $ going here, you can use that tax money elsewhere.

But if you refuse to cull the federal government than I will refuse to talk about any new taxes. The money is already there, it's the waste that is the problem.
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