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Old 06-06-2014, 03:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
Driving is compared to purposely killing someone?
No, the comparison is between law abiding drivers and law abiding firearm owners. The claim that we must avoid inconveniencing law abiding citizens is idiotic. Most laws inconvenience even law abiding citizens, particularly those when attempt to prevent people will unlawful intent from misusing generally lawful items.

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Do you believe the kid in SB wouldn't have slashed and shot people if there were gun bans here(which currently there is)?
The ineffectiveness of current measures is irrelevant.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:19 PM   #27
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No, the comparison is between law abiding drivers and law abiding firearm owners. The claim that we must avoid inconveniencing law abiding citizens is idiotic. Most laws inconvenience even law abiding citizens, particularly those when attempt to prevent people will unlawful intent from misusing generally lawful items.



The ineffectiveness of current measures is irrelevant.

If the gun laws worked in Cali would it be relevant? Doesn't matter how strict gun laws are there's always going to be illegal guns for sale. I can go buy a 40 caliber in East Salinas for 50 bucks right now.


Look at booze. In the wrong hands it's a disaster. Deadly. They slap a ban on it and suddenly booze is a valuable commodity for criminals and the black market.

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Old 06-06-2014, 03:22 PM   #28
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If the gun laws worked in Cali would it be relevant? Doesn't matter how strict gun laws are there's always going to be illegal guns for sale. I can go buy a 40 caliber in East Salinas for 50 bucks right now.
You do know most mass killings by nuts are done with legally obtained weapons, right? Essentially are are done with weapons that are themselves legal.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:27 PM   #29
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You do know most mass killings by nuts are done with legally obtained weapons, right? Essentially are are done with weapons that are themselves legal.
And the thousands of gun related crimes in this country are from illegally obtained weapons. The gun I was shot with was illegally obtained(stolen). IMO those mass killings would've still happened whether guns are banned or not.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:41 PM   #30
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And the thousands of gun related crimes in this country are from illegally obtained weapons.
Most crimes committed with a firearm use a legally obtained weapon.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

To be fair, a large number of crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms, but still the minority.

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The gun I was shot with was illegally obtained(stolen). IMO those mass killings would've still happened whether guns are banned or not.
No doubt, no measure will completely eliminate the problem -- like I said before. While the idealistic goal is complete elimination, the practical result that can be realistically hoped for is significant reduction.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:50 PM   #31
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This is the rub. As a firearm owner and enthusiast myself, I am only interested in keeping firearms out of the hands of nutcases, etc. Or at least limiting the damage that can be done. The problem is, any discussion of such measures is met with a visceral, purely emotional response by the gun fondlers.
I agree for the most part. What do you think we can do to prevent these types of people from committing these crimes.
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:09 PM   #32
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Ok but can you shoot 70 people in 2 minutes with a .22 or a knife?


Let's start simple.
Yes, if there were a sufficiently sized crowd and you had enough pre loaded clips, you could kill 77 people with a .22.

A properly placed .22 can easily kill a person. It's not going to do as much damage as a larger caliber, but a semi auto .22 is about the most common gun in existence. People have died from being shot by a .22
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Old 06-06-2014, 05:27 PM   #33
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How do Obama supporters still bring up gun control with a straight face after Fast and Furious? Please.
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Old 06-06-2014, 09:16 PM   #34
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And every one on the planet is a nutjob at some time or another. That eliminates everyone from owning a firearm.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:59 AM   #35
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You know I don't think I am much different than most people on the Mane.

What I would want in Gun Control Bill

1. Ban on Assault Rifles, now I know there are different definitions on Assault Rifle and I would let that up to professionals to determine the exact categories. I know the guy who shot up the Aurora movie theatre and shot over 70 people in under a 2 minutes had an assault rifle.

2. Ban on higher than 15 round clips for a handgun. It is ironic right after Giffords and all those people in Tucson were shot and killed a huge run happened on 30 round clips.

3. 10 day waiting list for gun purchase. This does work. Some guy is pissed off at someone and wants to kill him/or and they go to buy a gun. Give this person 10 days to wait and maybe he/she will change his mind

4. Back ground check. No one with a violent criminal record, Murder, Armed Burglary, rape etc. cannot buy a gun. I am not sure how you do this mentally so I would let that be up to experts to determine.

5. Ban open carry of long rifle/assault rifle... I don't care if someone carries a concealed weapon as long as they [assed a back ground check and went through a training course that has to be renewed every... lets say three years.


OK so how am I different than the people of the Orangemane. What ones do you not mind and which ones do you hate.
It's really unfortunate you aren't explaining why you want these bans, just throwing them out there. Also considering that nearly 90,000 die annually from alcohol abuse, why aren't you calling for similar if not greater restrictions on alcohol purchase and possession?

Why do liberals want bans on things that they don't know what they are? Semiautomatic civilian sporting rifles are not "assault weapons." You invoke James Holmes yet you don't even bother looking at the case. Holmes had 3 weapons, yet you're assigning all injuries in that theater to a single one without cause. You're under the completely false impression that getting rid of these rifles (which you CANNOT because under DC v Heller, the Court specifically ruled that you cannot outlaw common-use firearms) will somehow magically make it so a person cannot shoot 70 people in 2 minutes. Each blast from a shotgun enables a person to hit multiple people at once (Joe Biden's weapon of choice), which is exactly what happened in the Aurora movie theater.

Your repeated references to magazines as "clips" also shows that you are not gun-literate, and as such, frankly shouldn't even be commenting on this topic. There are plenty of handguns that come by default with a 17 round magazine, and you seem completely oblivious to that.

No, a waiting list for a gun purchase does NOT work, refer to Colin Ferguson. He purchased his gun with a 15 day waiting period. If someone wants to kill someone, they can just as easily hack them to death or brain them with a bat. If someone is the type that wants to go buy a gun to kill someone, overwhelming chances are this person already has a criminal record and can't buy one legally anyway.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:00 AM   #36
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And every one on the planet is a nutjob at some time or another. That eliminates everyone from owning a firearm.
That's the ultimate goal; to use the incredibly small number of those nut jobs as an excuse to take away from everyone.

What we're seeing is not the reason for taking guns and magazines away, but rather the pretext fed to the public.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:12 AM   #37
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Most crimes committed with a firearm use a legally obtained weapon.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF

To be fair, a large number of crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms, but still the minority.
Where in that document are you getting this? It actually says the opposite of what you're saying:

Surveys of inmates show that they prefer concealable, large caliber guns. Juvenile offenders appear to be more likely to possess guns than adults.

Juveniles cannot legally own guns.

According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft, and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.

That's 58%, and it's assuming that all inmates are honest about where they got their guns.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:15 AM   #38
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And the thousands of gun related crimes in this country are from illegally obtained weapons. The gun I was shot with was illegally obtained(stolen). IMO those mass killings would've still happened whether guns are banned or not.
They're trying to child proof the world or disarm the citizenry in the name of child proofing the world. Either way, a few people slipping through the cracks is one of the risks inherent in a free society.

If they don't like free societies, they can move to a Marxist or Islamist dump of their choice, where they won't have to worry about guns and stuff.
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Old 06-08-2014, 04:45 PM   #39
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Where in that document are you getting this? It actually says the opposite of what you're saying:

Surveys of inmates show that they prefer concealable, large caliber guns. Juvenile offenders appear to be more likely to possess guns than adults.

Juveniles cannot legally own guns.

According to the 1991 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those inmates who possessed a handgun, 9% had acquired it through theft, and 28% had acquired it through an illegal market such as a drug dealer or fence. Of all inmates, 10% had stolen at least one gun, and 11% had sold or traded stolen guns.

That's 58%, and it's assuming that all inmates are honest about where they got their guns.
Another day, another hilarious demonstration of righty lack of reading comprehension. How precious!

Try again 2 pack.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:12 PM   #40
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And every one on the planet is a nutjob at some time or another. That eliminates everyone from owning a firearm.
No, we can depend on Hollywood bodyguards and the government to have all the weapons and ammo. They can be trusted to always do the right thing
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:14 AM   #41
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You're an idiot you already can't buy a gun if you raped or killed someone. Have you ever heard of felons can't own guns.

Idiot.
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Old 06-09-2014, 02:25 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
It's really unfortunate you aren't explaining why you want these bans, just throwing them out there. Also considering that nearly 90,000 die annually from alcohol abuse, why aren't you calling for similar if not greater restrictions on alcohol purchase and possession?

Why do liberals want bans on things that they don't know what they are? Semiautomatic civilian sporting rifles are not "assault weapons." You invoke James Holmes yet you don't even bother looking at the case. Holmes had 3 weapons, yet you're assigning all injuries in that theater to a single one without cause. You're under the completely false impression that getting rid of these rifles (which you CANNOT because under DC v Heller, the Court specifically ruled that you cannot outlaw common-use firearms) will somehow magically make it so a person cannot shoot 70 people in 2 minutes. Each blast from a shotgun enables a person to hit multiple people at once (Joe Biden's weapon of choice), which is exactly what happened in the Aurora movie theater.

Your repeated references to magazines as "clips" also shows that you are not gun-literate, and as such, frankly shouldn't even be commenting on this topic. There are plenty of handguns that come by default with a 17 round magazine, and you seem completely oblivious to that.

No, a waiting list for a gun purchase does NOT work, refer to Colin Ferguson. He purchased his gun with a 15 day waiting period. If someone wants to kill someone, they can just as easily hack them to death or brain them with a bat. If someone is the type that wants to go buy a gun to kill someone, overwhelming chances are this person already has a criminal record and can't buy one legally anyway.
The difference is that alcohol rarely kills people who aren't actively using it. Guns on the other hand tend to kill people who are not currently using said weapon. The flu kills 10s of thousands a year too, we should totally ban that **** right? Please try to avoid strawman arguments, it cheapens your message.

Of course you can, the supreme court has reversed stance before and will do so again - humans are not a constant, society changes. Chances of dying from a shotgun blast not aimed directly at you at point blank range is very small, hell, former VP Cheney shot an old guy in the face and they were able to fix him up with one of those little multitools you can have in a pocket. Shotguns are very inefficient for killing larger animals, all hunters know this. As for the Aurora massacre, Holmes got off 5-8 shots with a shotgun, not all of them aimed at people, then 45 shots with a semi-auto rifle and finally a number of shots I don't know from a .22, but less than 45.

You can't reference a single incident as evidence that something doesn't work. That is like saying because Nixon turned out to be a crook democracy has failed. The fact that shootings - not the criminal on criminal type shootings, because lets be honest, who gives a **** about criminals - but the shootings we do care about, the VT shooting, the Aurora shooting, Newtown, Columbine, none of those shootings should have been carried out with legally purchased weapons. Not a single one of the shooters had any reason to own a weapon or even have access to one and the fact that they all did is a problem.

But I guess as long as it is just Americans killing Ameicans who really cares right?
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:45 AM   #43
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The difference is that alcohol rarely kills people who aren't actively using it. Guns on the other hand tend to kill people who are not currently using said weapon. The flu kills 10s of thousands a year too, we should totally ban that **** right? Please try to avoid strawman arguments, it cheapens your message.

Of course you can, the supreme court has reversed stance before and will do so again - humans are not a constant, society changes. Chances of dying from a shotgun blast not aimed directly at you at point blank range is very small, hell, former VP Cheney shot an old guy in the face and they were able to fix him up with one of those little multitools you can have in a pocket. Shotguns are very inefficient for killing larger animals, all hunters know this. As for the Aurora massacre, Holmes got off 5-8 shots with a shotgun, not all of them aimed at people, then 45 shots with a semi-auto rifle and finally a number of shots I don't know from a .22, but less than 45.

You can't reference a single incident as evidence that something doesn't work. That is like saying because Nixon turned out to be a crook democracy has failed. The fact that shootings - not the criminal on criminal type shootings, because lets be honest, who gives a **** about criminals - but the shootings we do care about, the VT shooting, the Aurora shooting, Newtown, Columbine, none of those shootings should have been carried out with legally purchased weapons. Not a single one of the shooters had any reason to own a weapon or even have access to one and the fact that they all did is a problem.

But I guess as long as it is just Americans killing Ameicans who really cares right?
Neo prohibitionist fail.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk..._United_States

Repeal the 21st Amendment!

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Old 06-09-2014, 08:19 AM   #44
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You know I don't think I am much different than most people on the Mane.

What I would want in Gun Control Bill

1. Ban on Assault Rifles, now I know there are different definitions on Assault Rifle and I would let that up to professionals to determine the exact categories. I know the guy who shot up the Aurora movie theatre and shot over 70 people in under a 2 minutes had an assault rifle.

He did not. He had a semi-automatic rifle, which is not an assualt rifle. An assult rifle as defined by the US Military is an automatic fire rifle

2. Ban on higher than 15 round clips for a handgun. It is ironic right after Giffords and all those people in Tucson were shot and killed a huge run happened on 30 round clips.

Useless unenforceable law

3. 10 day waiting list for gun purchase. This does work. Some guy is pissed off at someone and wants to kill him/or and they go to buy a gun. Give this person 10 days to wait and maybe he/she will change his mind

No Good. It's not your business. Potentially someone could need one to protect themselves today and they should have that choice

4. Back ground check. No one with a violent criminal record, Murder, Armed Burglary, rape etc. cannot buy a gun. I am not sure how you do this mentally so I would let that be up to experts to determine.

This is already the law practically everywhere

5. Ban open carry of long rifle/assault rifle... I don't care if someone carries a concealed weapon as long as they [assed a back ground check and went through a training course that has to be renewed every... lets say three years.

This is a state and local matter and there are already laws that dictate this behavior based on the desires of the locale.





OK so how am I different than the people of the Orangemane. What ones do you not mind and which ones do you hate.
;l
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:33 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
You know I don't think I am much different than most people on the Mane.

What I would want in Gun Control Bill

1. Ban on Assault Rifles, now I know there are different definitions on Assault Rifle and I would let that up to professionals to determine the exact categories. I know the guy who shot up the Aurora movie theatre and shot over 70 people in under a 2 minutes had an assault rifle.

2. Ban on higher than 15 round clips for a handgun. It is ironic right after Giffords and all those people in Tucson were shot and killed a huge run happened on 30 round clips.

3. 10 day waiting list for gun purchase. This does work. Some guy is pissed off at someone and wants to kill him/or and they go to buy a gun. Give this person 10 days to wait and maybe he/she will change his mind

4. Back ground check. No one with a violent criminal record, Murder, Armed Burglary, rape etc. cannot buy a gun. I am not sure how you do this mentally so I would let that be up to experts to determine.

5. Ban open carry of long rifle/assault rifle... I don't care if someone carries a concealed weapon as long as they [assed a back ground check and went through a training course that has to be renewed every... lets say three years.


OK so how am I different than the people of the Orangemane. What ones do you not mind and which ones do you hate.
Have you actually ever read the Federal firearm form #4473 that is required by law for the buyer and seller to complete before the transaction is completed and do you know a computer criminal background check is required by law?

Here is the form please read it before you make further stupid posts ....

http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/downl...f-f-4473-1.pdf
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:10 PM   #46
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Also no one who has decided to kill is going to not do it because they don't have a gun. They will just use something else like a car, knife etc. When people snap they snap. I was in a rampage right now but because I have to wait to buy a gun I'm cool now.
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Old 06-09-2014, 05:32 PM   #47
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:10 PM   #48
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

we are not smarter than they were. stop interpreting and follow the damn rule.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:18 PM   #49
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

we are not smarter than they were. stop interpreting and follow the damn rule.

There are those that would love to disarm America and they will never stop trying to do just that. Why would you think that is? Safety for the citizenry? Think again folks if that were the intent they would not try an poison you with your food and water.
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:21 AM   #50
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I believe the primary reason the 2nd Amendment was put in place was not so much for hunting, or self defense. But to have the ability to fight and have a fighting chance against a tyrannical government. The gun rights folks hardly ever say this, and that is why they are often tripped up when trying to defend their stance on assault weapons.

Which is my one and only reason why we should not ban assault rifles, or weapons designed to kill people.

We wouldn't have much of a shot fighting a well armed government with handguns, shotguns, or .22s.

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