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Old 06-05-2014, 11:45 AM   #376
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thats fair
the report is that he did go awol. no proof whether he collaborated willingly or not. with the facts that you know right now, if you are the potus, will you host bargdahl parents and will your staff refer to him as a hero?
It makes me worry that the CIA and NSA did not give him a very good briefing paper on the guy. Or maybe they don't know much either? Either that, or he's ignoring it for political gain. I don't know.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:46 AM   #377
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We are talking about terrorist. Of course we have swapped prisoners and even have done so during a war. We don't swap for terrorist. Taliban prisoners were considered terrorist not soldiers.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:46 AM   #378
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Oh, and ask yourself this question, by the laws of war, once the U.S. leaves Afghanistan it would have to release its Afghani prisoners. That would be next year. So would those five have been released next year anyway? Yes. Of course they would have.
FALSE PROPAGANDA. Obama's campaign promise in 2008 was to "End the War on Terror". He has initiated or expanded 14+ illegal foreign wars and has no plans to leave Afghanistan.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:47 AM   #379
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My final POLS paper was "AfPak: Obama's Graveyard" -- I was right.
It's been everybody's graveyard since Alexander the Great. The only reason he succeeded is because he married a warlord's daughter which made him part of a dominant tribe; something perhaps Obama should have considered?
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:49 AM   #380
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It makes me worry that the CIA and NSA did not give him a very good briefing paper on the guy. Or maybe they don't know much either? Either that, or he's ignoring it for political gain. I don't know.
There's something strange going on with the whole thing. Supposedly the military didn't want the deserter/defector thing getting out. Even made soldiers sign NDAs to keep it from getting out. Which is maybe why Obama didn't think it would get out. Or maybe he really didn't know. Which would be hard to believe, considering the stakes.

Anyway, I think the homecoming "Hero's welcome: must've just been too much for them to keep their mouths shut about it any longer.

But for the life of me, I have no idea why the military would've gone to those lengths to protect a no-name private from Idaho.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:59 AM   #381
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There's something strange going on with the whole thing. Supposedly the military didn't want the deserter/defector thing getting out. Even made soldiers sign NDAs to keep it from getting out. Which is maybe why Obama didn't think it would get out. Or maybe he really didn't know. Which would be hard to believe, considering the stakes.

Anyway, I think the homecoming "Hero's welcome: must've just been too much for them to keep their mouths shut about it any longer.

But for the life of me, I have no idea why the military would've gone to those lengths to protect a no-name private from Idaho.
saw this on the news the other day when i was flipping through the channels. they had some guy from the senate investigation committe. he stated that read through the bergdahl report and was wondering why their was nothing on the note that bergdahl left behind.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:03 PM   #382
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Yeah, I don't agree with this. For most of Bush's term, Afghanistan was the 'popular' war. In fact one of Obama's main campaign points was that we should've ignored Iraq and invested even more in our invasion of Afghanistan.

Regardless, the vote to invade Afghanistan was nearly universal, as was public opinion in support at the time. Crazy to me how quickly we forget our national post-9/11 mood.
It's true going to war in Afghanistan was approved by Congress in almost unanimous fashion. There was public support for the war after 9/11. However, by 2006 the American public was sick of being at war and that's how wingnut Socialist's like Pelosi, Reid, Hillary Clinton, and Obama swept to power. Even though they themselves voted FOR the war, and voted to extend it.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:05 PM   #383
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The thing that sickens me the most of this entire thing is Carney, Rice and the like calling Bergdahl "honorable". For those in the military that did serve with bravery and passion for the USA, its a big **** you to them. That right there really pisses me off.
I'm with you on that. There's enough controversy out there they should stop with the hero talk until he's shown to be one. There is very little evidence that he actually was and mounting controversy he's a deserter, and possibly a traitor. Wether you approve of the trade or not, calling an alleged deserter honorable is a slap in the face to the truly honorable soldiers risking their lives.

I'm a former Marine and I voted for Obama twice, but he's really disappointing me with this one.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:16 PM   #384
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But for the life of me, I have no idea why the military would've gone to those lengths to protect a no-name private from Idaho.
That's easy. Bergdahl represents a major ****-up on the part of the military, even if there was nothing they could do about it. They let an enormous amount of intel simply walk off base. It's a huge moral killer. By all accounts, at least in Berghdahl's company, Afghanistan had turned into another Vietnam under Obama's direction.

All Obama's failed troop surge did was to get guys killed for no reason. They haven't had a mission since Obama gained office.
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Old 06-05-2014, 12:21 PM   #385
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Did they kidnap him, or did he walk into their camp by his own volition? I understand that somebody like Cruz wants to spew this venom for mid-term election value, but we don't know the facts yet.
I would say you missed the point but I know you're smarter than that. You're just deflecting.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:06 PM   #386
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He has initiated or expanded 14+ illegal foreign wars...
How many boots are, or ever were, on the ground related to these "14+ illegal foreign wars"? How many Americans died? How many foreign nationals died as a result of American actions? How much money was spent on these "wars"? Now, just for fun, compare those numbers to the same numbers from Iraq for the period 2003-2008. And then tell us what multiples you need to get the former numbers to equal the latter. I'm not trying to tell you one is more right or wrong than another, I'm just trying to get you to put things in context and use some perspective.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:10 PM   #387
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By all accounts, at least in Berghdahl's company, Afghanistan had turned into another Vietnam under Obama's direction.

All Obama's failed troop surge did was to get guys killed for no reason. They haven't had a mission since Obama gained office.
So, it only "turned into another Vietnam" since Obama was "directing" it? Really?

And for sh*ts and giggles tell us what the "mission" was before Obama gained office. I will start popping my popcorn. This should be as enlightening as your arguing with me all last season about how great our defense was, lol!!!
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:33 PM   #388
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How many boots are, or ever were, on the ground related to these "14+ illegal foreign wars"? How many Americans died? How many foreign nationals died as a result of American actions? How much money was spent on these "wars"? Now, just for fun, compare those numbers to the same numbers from Iraq for the period 2003-2008. And then tell us what multiples you need to get the former numbers to equal the latter. I'm not trying to tell you one is more right or wrong than another, I'm just trying to get you to put things in context and use some perspective.
If you take out the WASP-American blood factor, Libya is pretty much proportionally as bad as Iraq. Sure, only 6 million people live there, so you're never going to see the overall death toll.

But otherwise, it is a complete and utter catastrophe. With the added benefit of us shipping plenty of arms into the region that their new Jihadi masters will find most useful in the future.

Bush Sr, during the first gulf war, was criticized for not plinking Saddam then (like Obama just did with Muammar) He rightly noted that the problem wasn't with decapitating a regime. It was with what came in the chaos afterwards.

Our catastrophic intervention in Libya is just beginning to pay those dividends.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:36 PM   #389
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...Libya is pretty much proportionally as bad as Iraq.
By "proportionally" do you mean like 1/10,000th as bad? Because 1/10,000 is a proportion. And I'm being very generous with you here.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:51 PM   #390
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How many boots are, or ever were, on the ground related to these "14+ illegal foreign wars"? How many Americans died? How many foreign nationals died as a result of American actions? How much money was spent on these "wars"? Now, just for fun, compare those numbers to the same numbers from Iraq for the period 2003-2008. And then tell us what multiples you need to get the former numbers to equal the latter. I'm not trying to tell you one is more right or wrong than another, I'm just trying to get you to put things in context and use some perspective.
I already told you Obama's failed surge in Afghanistan ALONE tripled the death toll in Afghanistan compared to Bush. As far as casualties and displaced citizens from Obama's 14+ illegal wars, it's in the untold millions. At one point in the continuing crisis in Somalia 100,000+ people per day were fleeing Mogadishu.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:52 PM   #391
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By "proportionally" do you mean like 1/10,000th as bad? Because 1/10,000 is a proportion. And I'm being very generous with you here.
He did hedge with that "pretty much," but... yeah, that's still a reach.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:58 PM   #392
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By "proportionally" do you mean like 1/10,000th as bad? Because 1/10,000 is a proportion. And I'm being very generous with you here.
Iraq body count has 125-140,000 civilian casualties as its current figure, no?

Libya is already estimating 20-30,000. In a country with 25% of the people. And comparing 3 years in Libya to 10+ in Iraq.

Any way you slice it, Libya is a total catastrophe. And it's just getting warmed up.

But you don't need to take my word for it. Just ask the state department.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/as-libya...le-evacuation/
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:59 PM   #393
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So, it only "turned into another Vietnam" since Obama was "directing" it? Really?

And for sh*ts and giggles tell us what the "mission" was before Obama gained office. I will start popping my popcorn. This should be as enlightening as your arguing with me all last season about how great our defense was, lol!!!
The mission in Afghanistan was to remove Al Qaeda from power in Afghanistan and bring them to justice, because they allegedly organized the attacks on 9/11. Don't you remember? You know, the war that virtually everyone in the Democrat party supported and voted for?

Bush accomplished those goals in Afghanistan, and was in process of ending the war. He already set up a close timeline of ending the war in Iraq after Hussein was brought to justice for killing Iraqis, Kurds, and Kuwatis. It was widely known at that time that Bin Laden either escaped Afghanistan or was killed in battle. Why Obama chose to put 70,000 more troops in Afghanistan without a mission is anybody's guess. I certainly don't pretend to know the musings of a mad man.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:05 PM   #394
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Worst things to affect politics in human history:

1. Partisanship
2. Lobbyists
3. Obama
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:12 PM   #395
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Worst things to affect politics in human history:

1. Partisanship
2. Lobbyists
3. Obama
Love it
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:17 PM   #396
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1. Libya - not approved by Congress, acted on illegally by Obama and Hillary Clinton

2. Syria - Obama actually supported hard-liners with weapons, then threatened people with a fake red-line, then did nothing, and now wants to give hard-liners weapons again.

3. Somalia - The Obama administration sponsors the Ethiopian military and UN to completely de-stabilize the entire country not allowing a muslim government even though the people are 98% muslim, resulting in millions of deaths and displaced people.

4. Iran - Obama administration is allowing them to pursue nuclear weapons without regard to the existing anti-nuclear proliferation agreement.

5. Ukraine - The Obama administration funded the extremist uprising in Kiev, which completely backfired, causing Putin to annex the Eastern half of Ukraine.

6. Egypt - The Obama administration funded and supported the Muslim Brotherhood uprising in Egypt killing thousands and displacing untold thousands more. The Muslim Brotherhood has since been swept from power.

7. Yemen - Illegal drone strikes on civilians, futher kindling anti-American views

8. Iraq - Obama was kicked out even though he wanted to stay

9. Afghanistan - already discussed

10. South Sudan - Obama administration sent air support during recent South Sudan civil uprising between rival factions of the South Sudan government as voted on by the people.

11. Uganda - Obama administration illegally sent at least 100 troops to highlight the "Kony 2012" celebrity twitter campaign. Kony was never found

12. Nigeria - Obama pledges to do something about Boko Haram in speeches as recent as last week to highlight "#bringourgirlshome" celebrity twitter campaign. Nothing has or will happen.

13. Eritrea - Obama administration (Susan Rice) labeling them a "terrorist" country and instilling sanctions, even though the country is split evenly Christian/Muslim and NO evidence exists to suggest that the government is terrorist in any way.

14. North Korea - Even Dennis Rodman thinks the Obama administration is crazy.


Apparently the Socialist Progressives don't follow African news, and realize that kidnappings and killings in Africa happen daily. I guess none of you guys care about all the killed and displaced Somalians, Libyans, or Egyptians that the Obama administration is directly responsible for. What about all of the warlords Obama continues to funnel weapons and money too? You are the WORST form of hypocrites. The Socialist Progressives think they can control the entire world, yet everything they become involved with turns to complete chaos.

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Old 06-05-2014, 02:26 PM   #397
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Chiefs > Obama.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:40 PM   #398
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Nothing more pitiful or worse than a man (Barack Obama) or woman (Hillary Clinton) who have complete control of the US military and unabashedly follow the misguided random musings of uninformed celebrities like Oprah Winfrey.
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Old 06-05-2014, 02:51 PM   #399
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Old 06-05-2014, 03:02 PM   #400
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But he gives good speeches. At least that's what I hear. I can't stand to listen to him anymore. Anyway, after next year we will no longer be in Afghanistan and I really doubt the Taliban will cause us any more problems. Good or bad, it's always been American policy to leave no American behind, like General McChrystal pointed out. If you read the bios on the five that I posted you'll have less fear of the repercussions. At any rate, like the War on Drugs, the War on Terrorism has more to do with allowing government to grow its power at home than it does with any threat from abroad.
It will be a while before they totally pullout they're not done rebuilding their country yet
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