The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2014, 08:48 AM   #276
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,263

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukes View Post
So if Obama does exactly what Bush/Cheney would do, why do you still support him?
That post went right over your head. Take time to think about it
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 08:51 AM   #277
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,254

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Fox is the Nancy Grace of national news. Regardless of the story, they go into 100% attack the president hysteria.
If Fox is Nancy Grace, then I guess that would make MSNBC Jerry Springer?

Anyway, again with the quoting Media Matters to call Fox News biased? Someone needs to get out more.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 08:53 AM   #278
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,861

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
It's been reported for several years that Bergdahl might be aiding the enemy. But context was key, and we weren't told the whole truth.

A soldier captured and then turned against us is still in a sympathetic position. But a soldier who left us to seek out the enemy, then aiding them against us is guilty of treason.

I don't believe there's enough evidence (yet) to say he was for sure aiding the enemy.

But let's not forget why we're talking about this. Low-level turncoats in war are absolutely nothing new. It happens every time we engage in one. What is new is releasing multiple high-level enemy captives in exchange for one. Unless you can show me otherwise, I'd have to say Obama made a unique piece of American history on that one.
I'm commenting on the right wing hysteria machine, not on the facts regarding the Bergdahl case, which we don't have yet. Oddly enough, that hasn't stopped Fox from spewing it's garbage. Obviously, they don't need facts. Personally, I call what they're doing an out-of-control propaganda frenzy, which is counter-productive to an informed populace. And no, there's is nothing on the left to compare with it.

And marching right along with Fox hysteria are politicians like Lindsey Graham who are already uttering the word "impeachment." IMO, Obama sucks as a president, but in my lifetime, most presidents have sucked. That doesn't mean I believe that every single action they take should be reason to get hysterical and start screaming impeachment. This right wing revolution (since Raygun) is the worst thing I've ever seen take place in this country. It has basically obliterated our capacity to operate as a republic.

Oh, and ask yourself this question, by the laws of war, once the U.S. leaves Afghanistan it would have to release its Afghani prisoners. That would be next year. So would those five have been released next year anyway? Yes. Of course they would have.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 06-05-2014 at 08:59 AM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:01 AM   #279
Dukes
Ring of Famer
 
Dukes's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
That post went right over your head. Take time to think about it
It's ok. I don't blame you for dodging that question.
Dukes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:11 AM   #280
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,263

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dukes View Post
It's ok. I don't blame you for dodging that question.
I don't have agree with Obama on every issue in order to support him. Regardless of Obama wanting to leave some troops,I support the final result that no troops will be left behind.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:12 AM   #281
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,254

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
I don't have agree with Obama on every issue in order to support him. Regardless of Obama wanting to leave some troops,I support the final result that no troops will be left behind.
In other words, "I don't have to, but I will."
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:14 AM   #282
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,329

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
I don't have agree with Obama on every issue in order to support him. Regardless of Obama wanting to leave some troops,I support the final result that no troops will be left behind.
I is unless he leaves people to die in ...Benghazi. Then it's ok.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:18 AM   #283
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 4,254

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Oh, and ask yourself this question, by the laws of war, once the U.S. leaves Afghanistan it would have to release its Afghani prisoners. That would be next year. So would those five have been released next year anyway? Yes. Of course they would have.
Technically, by the "Laws of War" the people we're holding aren't combatants. They're terrorists. There are no complaints to be had should we decide to keep them for life. In the old days they would've been long-since executed. Which would also accord with the Geneva Convention.

And regardless, even if they were fighting directly under the flag of a nation-state, this would be akin to saying that once we knocked Italy out of the war in WWII, we were obligated to release all the Germans we captured there. The war ain't over. Whether it polls well in an election cycle or not.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:25 AM   #284
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,848

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Wow this stayed on the main page a lot longer than I thought it would.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:26 AM   #285
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Heck, I don't even remember Obama supporters bringing this guy up much the last 5 years either, but now, it was paramount. "Leave no soldier behind" and exchanging prisoners means the war is over, so when did the Taliban quit? I must have missed that one. It is funny to see those that don't care about the military, including the Obama admin., throwing out that Hollywood military phrase to somehow show they are so knowledgeable about any of this.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:28 AM   #286
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
I is unless he leaves people to die in ...Benghazi. Then it's ok.
The Obama supporters also seem to care more about this deserter than those that served honorably and left to die with poor healthcare at the VA.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #287
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
Wow this stayed on the main page a lot longer than I thought it would.
Is they why you have avoided this thread like the plague or having troubles figuring out your usual defense of Obama? Don't worry, huffington and dailykos are providing all kinds of excuses you can use.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:31 AM   #288
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,848

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
Is they why you have avoided this thread like the plague or having troubles figuring out your usual defense of Obama? Don't worry, huffington and dailykos are providing all kinds of excuses you can use.
I have been waiting for it to go to the politics forum so I could troll away.

Too much attention if I do it on the main page!
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:33 AM   #289
LetsGoBroncos
Ring of Famer
 
LetsGoBroncos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
I don't have agree with Obama on every issue in order to support him. Regardless of Obama wanting to leave some troops,I support the final result that no troops will be left behind.
So you have blinders on. How many more soldiers and innocent people will die as a result of these five guys being released in addition to the soldiers that died looking for him? It's not always cut and dry.

And how about the thousands of soldiers we have lost in the war in Afghanistan that died fighting to capture these guys....and now they are free. How is that ok?
LetsGoBroncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:34 AM   #290
LetsGoBroncos
Ring of Famer
 
LetsGoBroncos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
The Obama supporters also seem to care more about this deserter than those that served honorably and left to die with poor healthcare at the VA.
That's how they roll. Nothing about their thought process makes any sense.

And they would rather die than admit the King made a mistake. Which is really weird. I supported Bush, but I had no problem admitting he made mistakes.
LetsGoBroncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #291
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,861

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Here are short bios and some back-story on the five Taleban who were traded. From 2012 when this trade was first being discussed: http://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/...soners-amended
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:37 AM   #292
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,861

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
The Obama supporters also seem to care more about this deserter than those that served honorably and left to die with poor healthcare at the VA.
You could get a job as a Fox propagandist. You parrot well. The use of the word "seems" is always useful for propagandists.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:38 AM   #293
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Uh huh. You and Roh show us again where anyone was pounding the desk to give away Jihadis (or anyone really) for Bergdahls's release.
When/where did I suggest anyone was?
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:41 AM   #294
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
You could get a job as a Fox propagandist. You parrot well. The use of the word "seems" is always useful for propagandists.
says the guy who routinely posts links to articles from huffington
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:42 AM   #295
Guess Who
Rookie
 
Guess Who's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,848

Adopt-a-Bronco:
PMFM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Here are short bios and some back-story on the five Taleban who were traded. From 2012 when this trade was first being discussed: http://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/...soners-amended
That is really interesting thanks.

Maybe this is Homeland in reverse.
Guess Who is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #296
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,967

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
When/where did I suggest anyone was?
You guys keep stating if the guy was left in Afghanistan, then people would be upset about that, so who has been harping about this guy's release the last 5 years? Not even you for one thing.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:45 AM   #297
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,263

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
You guys keep stating if the guy was left in Afghanistan, then people would be upset about that, so who has been harping about this guy's release the last 5 years? Not even you for one thing.
Republicans.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:45 AM   #298
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 19,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I'm commenting on the right wing hysteria machine, not on the facts regarding the Bergdahl case, which we don't have yet. Oddly enough, that hasn't stopped Fox from spewing it's garbage. Obviously, they don't need facts. Personally, I call what they're doing an out-of-control propaganda frenzy, which is counter-productive to an informed populace. And no, there's is nothing on the left to compare with it.

And marching right along with Fox hysteria are politicians like Lindsey Graham who are already uttering the word "impeachment." IMO, Obama sucks as a president, but in my lifetime, most presidents have sucked. That doesn't mean I believe that every single action they take should be reason to get hysterical and start screaming impeachment. This right wing revolution (since Raygun) is the worst thing I've ever seen take place in this country. It has basically obliterated our capacity to operate as a republic.

Oh, and ask yourself this question, by the laws of war, once the U.S. leaves Afghanistan it would have to release its Afghani prisoners. That would be next year. So would those five have been released next year anyway? Yes. Of course they would have.
Spot on. Regarding the bolded part, it's astounding how they pretend this doesn't even exist. And the lack of realization that they're not only products of this "machine", but also tools of it. And did some of the same thing go on while Bush was president? Yes, of course. But wow, it's being taken to a whole new level with respect to Obama. They're foaming at the mouth. Wonderful to see people derive so much enjoyment, gleefulness even, from perceived failures.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:46 AM   #299
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,263

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
says the guy who routinely posts links to articles from huffington
Wow,legit sites somehow lack credibility with you.
peacepipe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 09:49 AM   #300
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,861

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos View Post
That's how they roll. Nothing about their thought process makes any sense.

And they would rather die than admit the King made a mistake. Which is really weird. I supported Bush, but I had no problem admitting he made mistakes.
Always easier to just pass judgment on complex issues based on partisan bias than to wait for any facts to come out, isn't it? Such is nature of the Fox parrot. Is this a mistake? Well, we really don't know yet, do we? But that's okay. Let the right wing hysteria parade continue.

Think of this: Let's say the guy was a deserter and a collaborator. As a former US Army Infantryman, I believe in that case he should be court martialed, and if found guilty, shot. But we all know that's not going to happen. So, we could have just left him in Afghanistan. Of course, then you leave a very powerful asset for the Taliban; a traitor who is thoroughly versed in American culture and can help them plan attacks.

You could look at this as removing an immediate asset in trade for five guys who will be held in Qatar for a year before they can do anything, and would have been released next year anyway. Given that we'll be out of Afghanistan before they get there, their bad effect will be turned on the backstabbing Afghani government, not us. Win/win.

Besides, initial reports had the Taliban requesting 15 detainees and a ****load of money. Maybe getting him for just the five was a good deal?

Last edited by Rohirrim; 06-05-2014 at 09:53 AM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Denver Broncos