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Old 06-04-2014, 11:02 AM   #251
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not if Req took "ball juggling" as a compliment.
I was always ripe for the circus, John.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:08 AM   #252
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It's not about who is best to lead the country anymore. People don't vote on facts.

“Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.”
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:59 AM   #253
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If releasing these guys anyway, then how does that make this better? They gave the world the impression then that they released these 5 for an American soldier. The belief some have is Gitmo's existence somehow emboldened terrorists, but just what does this move do? Make them back off? And what about Americans who travel abroad, who are civilians and not military. If one soldier can net 5 terrorists, how many for a civilian? Plus, where did previous regimes trade terrorists for soldiers and made it public like this one just did?
Can't respond fully since I'm at an appointment. I will ask if ydid you even read the articles?
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:11 PM   #254
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are you telling me the outrage from the families of the 6 soldiers that died when they went looking for him is all political?

how about the soldiers that were stationed with him, you think that they are only outraged because its political?

how about guys like me who served, seeing how the state department telling me this guy is a hero, you think i only care about this because its political?
Maybe I should have been more specific and said it's political for those in Washington. Apologies.

I too served, so rest assured I understand this from a soldiers perspective. Let's wait for the entire story to come out.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:31 PM   #255
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It's time for the media to spotlight Hillary and what she would've done. They've already used her name when criticizing Obama on the 30 day/congress angle. She was one of the proponents of that I believe.
I wonder if Hillary wearing her prism double-vision glasses would see 10 terrorists or just five.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:38 PM   #256
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Maybe I should have been more specific and said it's political for those in Washington. Apologies.

I too served, so rest assured I understand this from a soldiers perspective. Let's wait for the entire story to come out.
Thank you too for your service
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:27 PM   #257
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They weren't going to be released. Openly releasing POW's (even if you want to treat these criminals that way) requires a cessation of hostilities. An impossible assertion while the Taliban openly mocks the prospect. In theory, you could trade POW's during wartime, which is the argument that was made here. But in those cases, you need to negotiate a balance in detainee value. It's more than obvious, that was not the goal here.
I'm not too familiar with these laws but I'm sure we could find plenty of justification for holding these guys indefinitely. Especially with no peace treaty with us or the Afghan gov. Certainly for as long as attacks/bombings continue against the Afghans. It seems pretty well established that these guys are war criminals who have slaughtered civilians.

I wouldn't have traded these idiots for a 5-time medal of honor recipient. Send in SF if we have to, but not this....
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:42 PM   #258
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Old 06-04-2014, 03:55 PM   #259
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Maybe I should have been more specific and said it's political for those in Washington. Apologies.

I too served, so rest assured I understand this from a soldiers perspective. Let's wait for the entire story to come out.
If we wait for stories to come out stall tactics begin, presidential pardons take place, non-disclosure agreements are signed, people die, the media moves to cover up the next set of lies and the administration complains that the issue is old news.
Gun Runner, ObamaCare, VA, IRS, Benghazi, Bergdahl....I won't hold my breath waiting for these idiots to tell me the news.
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:01 PM   #260
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If we wait for stories to come out stall tactics begin, presidential pardons take place, non-disclosure agreements are signed, people die, the media moves to cover up the next set of lies and the administration complains that the issue is old news.
Gun Runner, ObamaCare, VA, IRS, Benghazi, Bergdahl....I won't hold my breath waiting for these idiots to tell me the news.
don't forget about spying on the media too... oh wait, who cares, it's Obama!
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:44 PM   #261
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If we wait for stories to come out stall tactics begin, presidential pardons take place, non-disclosure agreements are signed, people die, the media moves to cover up the next set of lies and the administration complains that the issue is old news.
Gun Runner, ObamaCare, VA, IRS, Benghazi, Bergdahl....I won't hold my breath waiting for these idiots to tell me the news.
Your perogative.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:01 PM   #262
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Not even a smidgen of corruption.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:55 PM   #263
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http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/1445...y-catastrophe/

Reporting from just outside the Landstuhl military hospital in Germany, NBC chief foreign correspondent Richard Engel says that the media is receiving more information about the release of Sgt. Bergdahl from the Taliban than from our own government.
Morning Joe co-host Mika Brzezinski also noted how difficult it is to get information from the Administration, save for the few press releases it periodically releases.
How does it look for the “most transparent administration in history” when a reporter says it is providing less information than a terrorist organization? Whatever it is, it can’t be good.
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Old 06-05-2014, 01:27 AM   #264
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1. I fully support the US military. These men and women must obey the chain of command under the threat of death or imprisonment, all the way up to the Commander-In-Chief, the US President.
2. There are more troops now in Afghanistan (32,800) than when Bush left office (~30,000).
3. Bush was in Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by US Congress, for 7 years and 3 months. He had plans in place to end the War in Iraq, and had drawn down troops in Afghanistan preparing for exit.
4. It was highly evident in 2008 (if not much sooner) that the war in Afghanistan was not winnable.
5. Obama gained the US Presidency by pledging to "End the War on Terror".
6. Obama has initiated and/or escalated 14+ foreign wars since becoming president. The vast majority of which are illegal. The only legal wars being Iraq and Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by Congress under Bush.
7. 74% of casualties in the Afghanistan War have come after Obama ordered the troop surge up to 100,000 troops.
8. Obama has been in Afghanistan for 5 years and 5 months. He has no plans to end the War in Afghanistan.
9. Obama had no plans in ending the war in Iraq. He was forced out, under the original Bush timeline for withdrawal.
10. Obama wanted to keep 10,000 troops in Iraq permanently, just like he wants to keep 10,000 troops in Afghanistan permanently.
11. By the end of his presidency, Obama will have been at war with Afghanistan longer than any US President has been at war with anyone, ever.
12. Bowe Berghdahl joined the US Military because he couldn't get into the French Foreign Legion.
13. Berghdahl was part of Obama's troop surge, was undertrained, and not prepared for anything in Afghanistan. All to meet Obama's fantastical surge goals.
14. Bergdahl is a traitor. He led directly to at least 6 US Soldier deaths and many more wounded.
15. There is also mounting evidence that Bergdahl gave sensitive information to the Taliban to assist in killing more Americans.
16. In 2012, the Obama administration, including knowledge by the State Dept and Hillary Clinton, hatched the original plan for the deal to exchange 5 Guantanamo detainees for Bergdahl (according to the Rolling Stone article).
17. The plan was to consummate the deal in 2012 (election year), as the Obama administration saw the exchange as political capital (according to the Rolling Stone article).
18. Obama illegally brokered the swap by failing to notify Congress 30 days prior to the announcement.


Obama is directly responsible for 1,575+ American deaths in Afghanistan, including those who died and were injured while searching for Berghdahl, due to his failed troop surge. How many more Americans will die in Afghanistan under Obama and Hillary Clinton's leadership?

Last edited by pricejj; 06-05-2014 at 01:48 AM..
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:29 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
1. I fully support the US military. These men and women must obey the chain of command under the threat of death or imprisonment, all the way up to the Commander-In-Chief, the US President.
2. There are more troops now in Afghanistan (32,800) than when Bush left office (~30,000).
3. Bush was in Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by US Congress, for 7 years and 3 months. He had plans in place to end the War in Iraq, and had drawn down troops in Afghanistan preparing for exit.
4. It was highly evident in 2008 (if not much sooner) that the war in Afghanistan was not winnable.
5. Obama gained the US Presidency by pledging to "End the War on Terror".
6. Obama has initiated and/or escalated 14+ foreign wars since becoming president. The vast majority of which are illegal. The only legal wars being Iraq and Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by Congress under Bush.
7. 74% of casualties in the Afghanistan War have come after Obama ordered the troop surge up to 100,000 troops.
8. Obama has been in Afghanistan for 5 years and 5 months. He has no plans to end the War in Afghanistan.
9. Obama had no plans in ending the war in Iraq. He was forced out, under the original Bush timeline for withdrawal.
10. Obama wanted to keep 10,000 troops in Iraq permanently, just like he wants to keep 10,000 troops in Afghanistan permanently.
11. By the end of his presidency, Obama will have been at war with Afghanistan longer than any US President has been at war with anyone, ever.
12. Bowe Berghdahl joined the US Military because he couldn't get into the French Foreign Legion.
13. Berghdahl was part of Obama's troop surge, was undertrained, and not prepared for anything in Afghanistan. All to meet Obama's fantastical surge goals.
14. Bergdahl is a traitor. He led directly to at least 6 US Soldier deaths and many more wounded.
15. There is also mounting evidence that Bergdahl gave sensitive information to the Taliban to assist in killing more Americans.
16. In 2012, the Obama administration, including knowledge by the State Dept and Hillary Clinton, hatched the original plan for the deal to exchange 5 Guantanamo detainees for Bergdahl (according to the Rolling Stone article).
17. The plan was to consummate the deal in 2012 (election year), as the Obama administration saw the exchange as political capital (according to the Rolling Stone article).
18. Obama illegally brokered the swap by failing to notify Congress 30 days prior to the announcement.


Obama is directly responsible for 1,575+ American deaths in Afghanistan, including those who died and were injured while searching for Berghdahl, due to his failed troop surge. How many more Americans will die in Afghanistan under Obama and Hillary Clinton's leadership?
I'm not going to waste time reading every line of delusional thought you have,but bush/Cheney didn't want all troops out Iraq & afghan either. They wanted the 10,000 as well. Cheney has made it very public that they wanted that,and critisized Obama for bringing the troops down to zero.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:43 AM   #266
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I'm not going to waste time reading every line of delusional thought you have,but bush/Cheney didn't want all troops out Iraq & afghan either. They wanted the 10,000 as well. Cheney has made it very public that they wanted that,and critisized Obama for bringing the troops down to zero.
So if Obama does exactly what Bush/Cheney would do, why do you still support him?
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:46 AM   #267
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So if Obama does exactly what Bush/Cheney would do, why do you still support him?
Because just like with the Patriot Act and wiretapping where Obama supporters howled about those before 2009, with Obama, it's "different" and somehow better with Obama in charge.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:52 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
1. I fully support the US military. These men and women must obey the chain of command under the threat of death or imprisonment, all the way up to the Commander-In-Chief, the US President.
2. There are more troops now in Afghanistan (32,800) than when Bush left office (~30,000).
3. Bush was in Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by US Congress, for 7 years and 3 months. He had plans in place to end the War in Iraq, and had drawn down troops in Afghanistan preparing for exit.
4. It was highly evident in 2008 (if not much sooner) that the war in Afghanistan was not winnable.
5. Obama gained the US Presidency by pledging to "End the War on Terror".
6. Obama has initiated and/or escalated 14+ foreign wars since becoming president. The vast majority of which are illegal. The only legal wars being Iraq and Afghanistan, as voted on and authorized by Congress under Bush.
7. 74% of casualties in the Afghanistan War have come after Obama ordered the troop surge up to 100,000 troops.
8. Obama has been in Afghanistan for 5 years and 5 months. He has no plans to end the War in Afghanistan.
9. Obama had no plans in ending the war in Iraq. He was forced out, under the original Bush timeline for withdrawal.
10. Obama wanted to keep 10,000 troops in Iraq permanently, just like he wants to keep 10,000 troops in Afghanistan permanently.
11. By the end of his presidency, Obama will have been at war with Afghanistan longer than any US President has been at war with anyone, ever.
12. Bowe Berghdahl joined the US Military because he couldn't get into the French Foreign Legion.
13. Berghdahl was part of Obama's troop surge, was undertrained, and not prepared for anything in Afghanistan. All to meet Obama's fantastical surge goals.
14. Bergdahl is a traitor. He led directly to at least 6 US Soldier deaths and many more wounded.
15. There is also mounting evidence that Bergdahl gave sensitive information to the Taliban to assist in killing more Americans.
16. In 2012, the Obama administration, including knowledge by the State Dept and Hillary Clinton, hatched the original plan for the deal to exchange 5 Guantanamo detainees for Bergdahl (according to the Rolling Stone article).
17. The plan was to consummate the deal in 2012 (election year), as the Obama administration saw the exchange as political capital (according to the Rolling Stone article).
18. Obama illegally brokered the swap by failing to notify Congress 30 days prior to the announcement.


Obama is directly responsible for 1,575+ American deaths in Afghanistan, including those who died and were injured while searching for Berghdahl, due to his failed troop surge. How many more Americans will die in Afghanistan under Obama and Hillary Clinton's leadership?
The Obama admin. is also going around trashing the soldiers who served with this guy and speaking out against him, believing he's a traitor for desertion. This Obama admin. doesn't get how people are upset they gave up 5 terrorists for a guy like this. Plus, the Obama admin. keep talking about not leaving anyone behind, but that's for when wars are over. The Taliban have quit fighting? As much as Obama wants to believe it, the war on terror is over? This is why telling the enemy when you are pulling out troops is amateurish, not to mention stupid. I'm surprised he doesn't order troops to broadcast their plans of operation too so the enemy can't get hurt and suffer boo-boos.
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Old 06-05-2014, 06:53 AM   #269
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Media Matters take:
On Fox, the debate over whether Bergdahl deserted his post had long ago been settled, so they quickly moved onto the next phase of the campaign, which was suggesting, without any proof, that the U.S. soldier was actually a Taliban sympathizer who might have fought against American forces.

"Can you imagine if it turns out that he was actually collaborating," Brian Kilmeade wondered out loud on Fox.

Imagine, indeed.

That mindset begins to explain why Kilmeade talked about Bowe Bergdahl's father this way:

I mean, he says he was growing his beard because his son was -- because his son was in captivity. Your son's out now. If you really don't, no longer want to look like a member of the Taliban, you don't have to look like a member of the Taliban. Are you out of razors?
The phrase 'dripping with contempt' barely covers the tasteless attack Kilmeade launched against a father who'd just spent every day of the previous five years trying to secure his son's release. For Fox talkers, that human element is irrelevant.

Meanwhile, Fox contributor Laura Ingraham stressed "More revelations coming out about the left-wing father of Sergeant Bergdahl I mean, left wing doesn't even begin to describe him." So being "left wing" means you should be mocked while you await your son's return from a Taliban prison?

For Fox contributor Allen West, Robert Bergdahl's use of Arabic in remarks from the Rose Garden were evidence he had "sanctified" the White House "and claimed it for Islam."

More from Fox on Robert Bergdahl:

-"Is he an "Islamic sympathizer?"
-"He grew it out of sympathy wit the Taliban"
-"If he wasn't so light-skinned, he actually looks like a terrorist."
-"He looks like Muslim"

All of these attacks were launched in the name of scoring partisan points against Obama for okaying the prisoner swap. Can you imagine though, if months from now word leaked out that Obama had a deal on the table to get the only American prisoner home from the Afghanistan War and the president refused to secure the man's freedom? If Obama supposedly "disdains" the troops by winning Bergdahl's release (so says Fox's Ralph Peters), what would feral Fox pundits have said if Obama left an American to die in solitary confinement knowing the soldier's health was deteriorating?

Recall that Republican Senators John McCain and Kelly Ayotte were in favor of bringing Bergdahl home -- until President Obama achieved it. In December, Allen West sneered that the Obama wasn't working hard enough to recover Bergdahl because there were "no camera highlights in it for him"; now that Obama has done so, West says he should be impeached.

So for the Obama obsessed, the Bergdahl's story's a win-win: They attack Obama for securing the soldier's release and they would have mercilessly condemned Obama for failing to secure the soldier's release. For the critics, it's a game.

For a military family from tiny Hailey Idaho, it's much more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-b...b_5446098.html

Fox is the Nancy Grace of national news. Regardless of the story, they go into 100% attack the president hysteria.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:06 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Media Matters take:
On Fox, the debate over whether Bergdahl deserted his post had long ago been settled, so they quickly moved onto the next phase of the campaign, which was suggesting, without any proof, that the U.S. soldier was actually a Taliban sympathizer who might have fought against American forces.

"Can you imagine if it turns out that he was actually collaborating," Brian Kilmeade wondered out loud on Fox.

Imagine, indeed.

That mindset begins to explain why Kilmeade talked about Bowe Bergdahl's father this way:

I mean, he says he was growing his beard because his son was -- because his son was in captivity. Your son's out now. If you really don't, no longer want to look like a member of the Taliban, you don't have to look like a member of the Taliban. Are you out of razors?
The phrase 'dripping with contempt' barely covers the tasteless attack Kilmeade launched against a father who'd just spent every day of the previous five years trying to secure his son's release. For Fox talkers, that human element is irrelevant.

Meanwhile, Fox contributor Laura Ingraham stressed "More revelations coming out about the left-wing father of Sergeant Bergdahl I mean, left wing doesn't even begin to describe him." So being "left wing" means you should be mocked while you await your son's return from a Taliban prison?

For Fox contributor Allen West, Robert Bergdahl's use of Arabic in remarks from the Rose Garden were evidence he had "sanctified" the White House "and claimed it for Islam."

More from Fox on Robert Bergdahl:

-"Is he an "Islamic sympathizer?"
-"He grew it out of sympathy wit the Taliban"
-"If he wasn't so light-skinned, he actually looks like a terrorist."
-"He looks like Muslim"

All of these attacks were launched in the name of scoring partisan points against Obama for okaying the prisoner swap. Can you imagine though, if months from now word leaked out that Obama had a deal on the table to get the only American prisoner home from the Afghanistan War and the president refused to secure the man's freedom? If Obama supposedly "disdains" the troops by winning Bergdahl's release (so says Fox's Ralph Peters), what would feral Fox pundits have said if Obama left an American to die in solitary confinement knowing the soldier's health was deteriorating?

Recall that Republican Senators John McCain and Kelly Ayotte were in favor of bringing Bergdahl home -- until President Obama achieved it. In December, Allen West sneered that the Obama wasn't working hard enough to recover Bergdahl because there were "no camera highlights in it for him"; now that Obama has done so, West says he should be impeached.

So for the Obama obsessed, the Bergdahl's story's a win-win: They attack Obama for securing the soldier's release and they would have mercilessly condemned Obama for failing to secure the soldier's release. For the critics, it's a game.

For a military family from tiny Hailey Idaho, it's much more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-b...b_5446098.html

Fox is the Nancy Grace of national news. Regardless of the story, they go into 100% attack the president hysteria.
and the liberal media doesn't do that with republicans, like websites like huffington for example. I know, I know, that's different Yeah, the number of pressing for this guy's release the last 5 years has been huge. I think most people had forgotten about the deserter to be honest. You have bothered to read what the other soldiers have to say who served with him, or you also think they are lying and being paid by republicans as claimed by the admin. and liberal websites?
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:17 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Media Matters take:
On Fox, the debate over whether Bergdahl deserted his post had long ago been settled, so they quickly moved onto the next phase of the campaign, which was suggesting, without any proof, that the U.S. soldier was actually a Taliban sympathizer who might have fought against American forces.

"Can you imagine if it turns out that he was actually collaborating," Brian Kilmeade wondered out loud on Fox.

Imagine, indeed.

That mindset begins to explain why Kilmeade talked about Bowe Bergdahl's father this way:

I mean, he says he was growing his beard because his son was -- because his son was in captivity. Your son's out now. If you really don't, no longer want to look like a member of the Taliban, you don't have to look like a member of the Taliban. Are you out of razors?
The phrase 'dripping with contempt' barely covers the tasteless attack Kilmeade launched against a father who'd just spent every day of the previous five years trying to secure his son's release. For Fox talkers, that human element is irrelevant.

Meanwhile, Fox contributor Laura Ingraham stressed "More revelations coming out about the left-wing father of Sergeant Bergdahl I mean, left wing doesn't even begin to describe him." So being "left wing" means you should be mocked while you await your son's return from a Taliban prison?

For Fox contributor Allen West, Robert Bergdahl's use of Arabic in remarks from the Rose Garden were evidence he had "sanctified" the White House "and claimed it for Islam."

More from Fox on Robert Bergdahl:

-"Is he an "Islamic sympathizer?"
-"He grew it out of sympathy wit the Taliban"
-"If he wasn't so light-skinned, he actually looks like a terrorist."
-"He looks like Muslim"

All of these attacks were launched in the name of scoring partisan points against Obama for okaying the prisoner swap. Can you imagine though, if months from now word leaked out that Obama had a deal on the table to get the only American prisoner home from the Afghanistan War and the president refused to secure the man's freedom? If Obama supposedly "disdains" the troops by winning Bergdahl's release (so says Fox's Ralph Peters), what would feral Fox pundits have said if Obama left an American to die in solitary confinement knowing the soldier's health was deteriorating?

Recall that Republican Senators John McCain and Kelly Ayotte were in favor of bringing Bergdahl home -- until President Obama achieved it. In December, Allen West sneered that the Obama wasn't working hard enough to recover Bergdahl because there were "no camera highlights in it for him"; now that Obama has done so, West says he should be impeached.

So for the Obama obsessed, the Bergdahl's story's a win-win: They attack Obama for securing the soldier's release and they would have mercilessly condemned Obama for failing to secure the soldier's release. For the critics, it's a game.

For a military family from tiny Hailey Idaho, it's much more.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-b...b_5446098.html

Fox is the Nancy Grace of national news. Regardless of the story, they go into 100% attack the president hysteria.
It's been reported for several years that Bergdahl might be aiding the enemy. But context was key, and we weren't told the whole truth.

A soldier captured and then turned against us is still in a sympathetic position. But a soldier who left us to seek out the enemy, then aiding them against us is guilty of treason.

I don't believe there's enough evidence (yet) to say he was for sure aiding the enemy.

But let's not forget why we're talking about this. Low-level turncoats in war are absolutely nothing new. It happens every time we engage in one. What is new is releasing multiple high-level enemy captives in exchange for one. Unless you can show me otherwise, I'd have to say Obama made a unique piece of American history on that one.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:20 AM   #272
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So for the Obama obsessed, the Bergdahl's story's a win-win: They attack Obama for securing the soldier's release and they would have mercilessly condemned Obama for failing to secure the soldier's release. For the critics, it's a game.
Yup, pretty much the case with almost every political issue. Take Afghanistan as a perfect example. Obama is getting slammed for the "surge" and for still having a U.S. presence in the country. And perhaps rightly so. But, right wingers were 100% in support of this strategy before Obama was POTUS, and would have slammed him and called him weak if we would have pulled out/drawn down sooner and faster. Every issue is pretty much a lose-lose for him.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:32 AM   #273
Dukes
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Yup, pretty much the case with almost every political issue. Take Afghanistan as a perfect example. Obama is getting slammed for the "surge" and for still having a U.S. presence in the country. And perhaps rightly so. But, right wingers were 100% in support of this strategy before Obama was POTUS, and would have slammed him and called him weak if we would have pulled out/drawn down sooner and faster. Every issue is pretty much a lose-lose for him.
That's not true. It was evident once the Iraq war started that the Afghan war would never be won. Many people I know (myself included) wanted us out of Afghanistan completely while Bush was still in office.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:38 AM   #274
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Yup, pretty much the case with almost every political issue. Take Afghanistan as a perfect example. Obama is getting slammed for the "surge" and for still having a U.S. presence in the country. And perhaps rightly so. But, right wingers were 100% in support of this strategy before Obama was POTUS, and would have slammed him and called him weak if we would have pulled out/drawn down sooner and faster. Every issue is pretty much a lose-lose for him.
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Old 06-05-2014, 07:40 AM   #275
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Yup, pretty much the case with almost every political issue. Take Afghanistan as a perfect example. Obama is getting slammed for the "surge" and for still having a U.S. presence in the country. And perhaps rightly so. But, right wingers were 100% in support of this strategy before Obama was POTUS, and would have slammed him and called him weak if we would have pulled out/drawn down sooner and faster. Every issue is pretty much a lose-lose for him.
Uh huh. You and Roh show us again where anyone was pounding the desk to give away Jihadis (or anyone really) for Bergdahls's release.

Remember, it's been 5 years. You kids should have some evidence by now.
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