The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2014, 09:21 AM   #226
Traveler
Traveling Man!
 
Traveler's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,416

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ryan Clady
Default

Lists of former Guantanamo Bay detainees alleged to have returned to terrorism as of May 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_o...d_to_terrorism

McCain comment as it pertains to the the recent exchange...

Quote:
“These particular individuals are hardened terrorists who have the blood of Americans and countless Afghans on their hands,” Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said in a statement. “I am eager to learn what precise steps are being taken to ensure that these vicious and violent Taliban extremists never return to the fight against the United States and our partners or engage in any activities that can threaten the prospects for peace and security in Afghanistan.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...e4d_story.html
I'd put that same question to those lawmakers now upset with the release of the 5 Taliban detainees. What steps were taken for prisoners released between 2004-2009?

Also, my understanding is those 5 high value Taliban commanders were set to be released anyway, since they couldn't be formally charged in U.S. Courts or by Military Tribunal at GITMO. See bolded quote below for better explanation.


Quote:
There has been an avalanche of criticism over the release of these five GITMO detainees, who are the highest of high-value Taliban operatives. The criticism misses a larger point, though, which is that they were going to get released sooner or later anyway. Their detention hinges on our participation in the Afghan civil war. Unlike the al-Qaeda operatives still in GITMO, there aren’t any other grounds on which to hold them. When we end combat operations in Afghanistan this year, and especially when we fully withdraw in 2016, any justification for continuing to hold them indefinitely evaporates along with our presence. At the very least, we’d have to return them to the custody of the Afghan government, which would probably release them for their own purposes, and Bergdahl would probably not have been one of them.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/0...h-the-taliban/
Not saying this administration was right or wrong. Just would like everyone to acknowledge this and the prior administration have done the same thing.

The outrage over this particular exchange is purely political. An investigation will determine if Bergdahl really did desert his unit. If so, he'll just trade one prison abroad for one at home.
Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:21 AM   #227
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
It's becoming pretty plain that the White House thought they could recapture the news cycle from the dismal news at the VA. They just had no idea how epically that would backfire.
They seem to forget this still isn't the 70's and 80's when they had full control of the media. They could have gotten away with this back then. But also shows how arrogant this president is who can do whatever he wants, but at this point, I guess why not since nothing has been done about previous actions and I'm not holding my breath about this either. Just more excuses no matter how weak and they will be accepted and investigations, if there are any, stalled like before.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:28 AM   #228
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Lists of former Guantanamo Bay detainees alleged to have returned to terrorism as of May 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_o...d_to_terrorism

McCain comment as it pertains to the the recent exchange...



I'd put that same question to those lawmakers now upset with the release of the 5 Taliban detainees. What steps were taken for prisoners released between 2004-2009?

Also, my understanding is those 5 high value Taliban commanders were set to be released anyway, since they couldn't be formally charged in U.S. Courts or by Military Tribunal at GITMO. See bolded quote below for better explanation.




Not saying this administration was right or wrong. Just would like everyone to acknowledge this and the prior administration have done the same thing.

The outrage over this particular exchange is purely political. An investigation will determine if Bergdahl really did desert his unit. If so, he'll just trade one prison abroad for one at home.
If releasing these guys anyway, then how does that make this better? They gave the world the impression then that they released these 5 for an American soldier. The belief some have is Gitmo's existence somehow emboldened terrorists, but just what does this move do? Make them back off? And what about Americans who travel abroad, who are civilians and not military. If one soldier can net 5 terrorists, how many for a civilian? Plus, where did previous regimes trade terrorists for soldiers and made it public like this one just did?
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:32 AM   #229
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,661

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
They seem to forget this still isn't the 70's and 80's when they had full control of the media. They could have gotten away with this back then. But also shows how arrogant this president is who can do whatever he wants, but at this point, I guess why not since nothing has been done about previous actions and I'm not holding my breath about this either. Just more excuses no matter how weak and they will be accepted and investigations, if there are any, stalled like before.
The media is being far more critical of Obama than I've ever seen it. But I think Obama played the wrong hand here, and may have created the perfect storm.

1. Like I've said before, the media is going to have to get more critical and less enamored as Obama enters his lame duck phase. He has little left to offer them. People are mostly tired of hearing him, so jockeying for exclusive media access isn't as lucrative as it used to be. And many are kinda pissed at the way he's treated journalists over his term, even if they enabled him to some extent. Plus they'll have zero credibility for the next presidency if they spent Obama's entire term pretending nothing went wrong. And then...

2. Like we saw with Obama's early KSM Civilian Trial shenanigans, the NY Media establishment is much less friendly to him when it comes to going soft on terrorists. For obvious reasons.

Combine the two, and he might finally get raked over the coals for awhile. Something he never saw coming.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:35 AM   #230
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
The media is being far more critical of Obama than I've ever seen it. But I think Obama played the wrong hand here, and may have created the perfect storm.

1. Like I've said before, the media is going to have to get more critical and less enamored as Obama enters his lame duck phase. He has little left to offer them. People are mostly tired of hearing him, so jockeying for exclusive media access isn't as lucrative as it used to be. And many are kinda pissed at the way he's treated journalists over his term, even if they enabled him to some extent. And then...

2. Like we saw with Obama's early KSM Civilian Trial shenanigans, the NY Media establishment is much less friendly to him when it comes to going soft on terrorists. For obvious reasons.

Combine the two, and he might finally get raked over the coals for awhile. Something he never saw coming.
I'll have to see it to believe it. These morons in the media still believe disagreeing with Obama is racist, so they will tread carefully in their criticisms. But of course, I guess they could do their usual "wrong for you to disagree with Obama, but ok for me." So we'll see.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:36 AM   #231
SleepingTiger
Ring of Famer
 
SleepingTiger's Avatar
 
Ole J

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Murphy TX
Posts: 1,622

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Tony Carter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

The outrage over this particular exchange is purely political. An investigation will determine if Bergdahl really did desert his unit. If so, he'll just trade one prison abroad for one at home.
are you telling me the outrage from the families of the 6 soldiers that died when they went looking for him is all political?

how about the soldiers that were stationed with him, you think that they are only outraged because its political?

how about guys like me who served, seeing how the state department telling me this guy is a hero, you think i only care about this because its political?
SleepingTiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:36 AM   #232
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,370

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Let the partisan insanity ensue!

I looked at all the headlines this morning and realized that this Bergdahl case will be the next bout of hysteria that America puts itself through. Party on!
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:38 AM   #233
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 7,265

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
The media is being far more critical of Obama than I've ever seen it. But I think Obama played the wrong hand here, and may have created the perfect storm.

1. Like I've said before, the media is going to have to get more critical and less enamored as Obama enters his lame duck phase. He has little left to offer them. People are mostly tired of hearing him, so jockeying for exclusive media access isn't as lucrative as it used to be. And many are kinda pissed at the way he's treated journalists over his term, even if they enabled him to some extent. Plus they'll have zero credibility for the next presidency if they spent Obama's entire term pretending nothing went wrong. And then...

2. Like we saw with Obama's early KSM Civilian Trial shenanigans, the NY Media establishment is much less friendly to him when it comes to going soft on terrorists. For obvious reasons.

Combine the two, and he might finally get raked over the coals for awhile. Something he never saw coming.
It's time for the media to spotlight Hillary and what she would've done. They've already used her name when criticizing Obama on the 30 day/congress angle. She was one of the proponents of that I believe.
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:39 AM   #234
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,233

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

just another day at the office for BO. He makes his own rules.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:40 AM   #235
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 7,265

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Let the partisan insanity ensue!

I looked at all the headlines this morning and realized that this Bergdahl case will be the next bout of hysteria that America puts itself through. Party on!
Only "minor speed bumps" and "non issues" to his ball jugglers.
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:40 AM   #236
BroncoBeavis
Ring of Famer
 
BroncoBeavis's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,661

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
If releasing these guys anyway, then how does that make this better? They gave the world the impression then that they released these 5 for an American soldier. The belief some have is Gitmo's existence somehow emboldened terrorists, but just what does this move do? Make them back off? And what about Americans who travel abroad, who are civilians and not military. If one soldier can net 5 terrorists, how many for a civilian? Plus, where did previous regimes trade terrorists for soldiers and made it public like this one just did?
They weren't going to be released. Openly releasing POW's (even if you want to treat these criminals that way) requires a cessation of hostilities. An impossible assertion while the Taliban openly mocks the prospect. In theory, you could trade POW's during wartime, which is the argument that was made here. But in those cases, you need to negotiate a balance in detainee value. It's more than obvious, that was not the goal here.

The real goal here was to do something that would get positive media coverage. Which is why they couldn't run it be Congress first (as the law requires). The clowns just didn't realize how badly it would really play once the facts came out.
BroncoBeavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:42 AM   #237
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,370

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
Only "minor speed bumps" and "non issues" to his ball jugglers.
Come on! You can do better than that! We want spitting anger and name-calling!
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:47 AM   #238
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
They weren't going to be released. Openly releasing POW's (even if you want to treat these criminals that way) requires a cessation of hostilities. An impossible assertion while the Taliban openly mocks the prospect. In theory, you could trade POW's during wartime, which is the argument that was made here. But in those cases, you need to negotiate a balance in detainee value. It's more than obvious, that was not the goal here.

The real goal here was to do something that would get positive media coverage. Which is why they couldn't run it be Congress first (as the law requires). The clowns just didn't realize how badly it would really play once the facts came out.
True, this admin. has shown incompetence before and forgets not all the country is easily gullible like Obama's supporters who routinely give him excuses and cover for everything. When in war, countries negotiate release of military prisoners and such, but with terrorists, there is no country to negotiate with in reality.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:49 AM   #239
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Come on! You can do better than that! We want spitting anger and name-calling!
If you want more of that, go back to threads and posts before Obama became the president and to your own posts for that matter.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:52 AM   #240
LetsGoBroncos
Ring of Famer
 
LetsGoBroncos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingTiger View Post
are you telling me the outrage from the families of the 6 soldiers that died when they went looking for him is all political?

how about the soldiers that were stationed with him, you think that they are only outraged because its political?

how about guys like me who served, seeing how the state department telling me this guy is a hero, you think i only care about this because its political?
Exactly. And thank you for your service.

Obama continues to slap the military in the face. So disrespectful. **** him.
LetsGoBroncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:53 AM   #241
LetsGoBroncos
Ring of Famer
 
LetsGoBroncos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
It's time for the media to spotlight Hillary and what she would've done. They've already used her name when criticizing Obama on the 30 day/congress angle. She was one of the proponents of that I believe.
Yet she will win the next election because 60% of women will automatically vote for her just like 96% of African Americans voted for Obama. Plus the people that continue to vote for Democrats regardless of their record or the results they produce.
LetsGoBroncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:56 AM   #242
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 24,109

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos View Post
Yet she will win the next election because 60% of women will automatically vote for her just like 96% of African Americans voted for Obama. Plus the people that continue to vote for Democrats regardless of their record or the results they produce.
Say it ain't so Gilbert.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:57 AM   #243
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 7,265

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Come on! You can do better than that! We want spitting anger and name-calling!
I thought being a ball juggler is pretty deregatory and qualified as name calling!
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:58 AM   #244
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 7,265

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos View Post
Yet she will win the next election because 60% of women will automatically vote for her just like 96% of African Americans voted for Obama. Plus the people that continue to vote for Democrats regardless of their record or the results they produce.
Ole Billy boy gets to be 1st man too. That alone will get a lot of votes.
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 09:59 AM   #245
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,805

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoBroncos View Post
Yet she will win the next election because 60% of women will automatically vote for her just like 96% of African Americans voted for Obama. Plus the people that continue to vote for Democrats regardless of their record or the results they produce.
True, despite many of them with the belief women don't need a man, but Hillary did. She stayed with a creep of a husband for the "Clinton" name and even attacked the other women who were telling the truth while her husband was going around lying to the public. This is the best we have to offer to lead this country? Sad to say the least, but they will like with Obama, play to emotions. You don't like Obama, you're racist. You don't like Hillary, you hate women.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 10:22 AM   #246
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 24,109

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 10:43 AM   #247
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 7,265

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Leon Panetta in 2012 firmly against the prisoner transfer. No wonder he got out at the right time. His son is my lawyer.
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 10:44 AM   #248
LetsGoBroncos
Ring of Famer
 
LetsGoBroncos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryr View Post
True, despite many of them with the belief women don't need a man, but Hillary did. She stayed with a creep of a husband for the "Clinton" name and even attacked the other women who were telling the truth while her husband was going around lying to the public. This is the best we have to offer to lead this country? Sad to say the least, but they will like with Obama, play to emotions. You don't like Obama, you're racist. You don't like Hillary, you hate women.
It's not about who is best to lead the country anymore. People don't vote on facts.

I'm not a huge Romney fan, but he would have been 100 times better than Obama on the economy, and he wouldn't be making the same foreign policy mistakes that are being made right now.
LetsGoBroncos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 10:53 AM   #249
broncocalijohn
Famer of Rings
 
broncocalijohn's Avatar
 
I said Do It!

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lake Forest, Orange County, Calif.
Posts: 22,796

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Simon Fletcher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton View Post
Of course I don't, and he's likely to be court-martialed. You still don't intentionally leave a soldier in hostile territory overseas. We don't do that in America.

Can you imagine the outrage from the right had we NOT brought him back? "OBAMA DOESN'T CARE ABOUT ARR TRUUPZ! BENGHAZIIIIIIIII!"
You aren't too bright, huh? Has the right been asking for his release since he has been in captivity for 5 years? Read up on this Rolling Stones article from a few years ago. Please stop with your act of wanting to be a spokeshole for the Obama administration. Why would you even come close to defending this is beyond me. If I was a true Democrat, the least I would do is not open my mouth then to do so and defend Obama's actions.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...f-war-20120607

About 7 pages so click on each page.
broncocalijohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 11:00 AM   #250
broncocalijohn
Famer of Rings
 
broncocalijohn's Avatar
 
I said Do It!

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lake Forest, Orange County, Calif.
Posts: 22,796

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Simon Fletcher
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
I thought being a ball juggler is pretty deregatory and qualified as name calling!
not if Req took "ball juggling" as a compliment.
broncocalijohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Denver Broncos