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Old 05-15-2014, 11:02 PM   #26
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Because there is a limit to what Elway can do. Not **** the broncos future salary cap. He could have signed more players, backloaded the contracts, and saddled the future broncos with tons of dead money and a bloated cap. He's being responsible while fielding a championship quality team. How do YOU not get that?
Well one of us is missing the big picture, and Id bet my last dollar its YOU. Hate to burst your bubble, but Elway signed Talib to a 6 year deal, 57 Mil contract and Ware at 10 mil a year. A deals a deal. Money doesnt just flow out the river, it needs to be carefully spent. Teams dont have deep stacks of cash just waiting to be used like successful franchises do.

The facts are the Elway was in early position to make things happen, and he did. And just like any situation he come across, hes dealt with it heads up and will DEFINITELY not be worried about making a hero call......even if he is last to act.

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Old 05-16-2014, 06:35 AM   #27
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I understand the dislike for the "all in" description. But, Peyton Manning was a HUGE gamble. When they went after him, and gave him that huge contract, who knew whether or not he'd be able to play at all let alone at a high level. This offseason Talib and Ward were gambles, Talib more than Ward, but neither unreasonable. Ware, on the other hand, is a fairly big gamble. Older player coming off of an injury plagued year getting big $. And then the Sanders signing kind of came out of nowhere, only adding to a "they're going for it" mentality. So, "all in" may not be completely fair or accurate but it's certainly understandable why some may go there in describing the Broncos. An already talented team that did far more in FA than anybody else, and this coming off of a Super Bowl appearance. If you want to call what they did "appearing", that is.
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Old 05-16-2014, 07:33 AM   #28
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Well one of us is missing the big picture, and Id bet my last dollar its YOU. Hate to burst your bubble, but Elway signed Talib to a 6 year deal, 57 Mil contract and Ware at 10 mil a year. A deals a deal. Money doesnt just flow out the river, it needs to be carefully spent. Teams dont have deep stacks of cash just waiting to be used like successful franchises do.

The facts are the Elway was in early position to make things happen, and he did. And just like any situation he come across, hes dealt with it heads up and will DEFINITELY not be worried about making a hero call......even if he is last to act.
In all likelihood the Talib deal is a one year $12 million deal. Denver can cut him at the end of the year with minimal salary cap implications if they desire.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:19 AM   #29
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In all likelihood the Talib deal is a one year $12 million deal. Denver can cut him at the end of the year with minimal salary cap implications if they desire.
This is the conclusion you draw? Elway considered a great a wheeler and dealer, and with Talibs sketchy past and injury history, of course he wants to be able to muck him if things dont work out. Pretty standard approach if you ask me. Doesnt mean the Broncos wont straddle themselves with a massive contract that they WANT to work out.

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Old 05-16-2014, 11:25 AM   #30
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This is the conclusion you draw? Elway considered a great a wheeler and dealer, and with Talibs sketchy past and injury history, of course he wants to be able to muck him if things dont work out. Pretty standard approach if you ask me. Doesnt mean the Broncos wont straddle themselves with a massive contract that they WANT to work out.
The way they handled the Doom situation says your statement is not correct.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:29 AM   #31
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The way they handled the Doom situation says your statement is not correct.
How so? Because that sound nuts.

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Old 05-16-2014, 11:30 AM   #32
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Well one of us is missing the big picture, and Id bet my last dollar its YOU. Hate to burst your bubble, but Elway signed Talib to a 6 year deal, 57 Mil contract and Ware at 10 mil a year. A deals a deal. Money doesnt just flow out the river, it needs to be carefully spent. Teams dont have deep stacks of cash just waiting to be used like successful franchises do.

The facts are the Elway was in early position to make things happen, and he did. And just like any situation he come across, hes dealt with it heads up and will DEFINITELY not be worried about making a hero call......even if he is last to act.
Dude, you're being a dick.

And worse off? You're being a dick and you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

The brilliance of the Broncos big moves and contracts is that it DOESN'T **** the future of the salary cap. The Broncos can cut bait at any time and not be saddled with much dead money. This is shrewd business. This is smart business. This is not reckless. You want reckless spending? Look at the situation the cowboys are in, or countless other teams since the era of the salary cap.

Just because he made big moves and was smart, doesn't mean he was being reckless. Going "all in" implies something is being mortgaged. If you go "all in" and fail, it implies you are broke. That's not the case here.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:38 AM   #33
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The way they handled the Doom situation says your statement is not correct.
Wasn't Doom's extension a McD thing? So Elway was cleaning up another of his messes.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:42 AM   #34
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How so? Because that sound nuts.
They wanted to keep Doom in the worse way but rather than "straddle" themselves with an unmanageable contract they outright cut him. You say you don't get the connection?
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:43 AM   #35
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Dude, you're being a dick.

And worse off? You're being a dick and you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

The brilliance of the Broncos big moves and contracts is that it DOESN'T **** the future of the salary cap. The Broncos can cut bait at any time and not be saddled with much dead money. This is shrewd business. This is smart business. This is not reckless. You want reckless spending? Look at the situation the cowboys are in, or countless other teams since the era of the salary cap.

Just because he made big moves and was smart, doesn't mean he was being reckless. Going "all in" implies something is being mortgaged. If you go "all in" and fail, it implies you are broke. That's not the case here.
Dont mean to push your button, but again......you cant see the trees past the forest. Elway didnt limp into the FA period looking for quality bargains. He wanted several BIG TIME, EXPENSIVE players who are some of the best at their positions, that would tilt the odds in his favor. Elway wasnt under the gun by fans, Bowlen....whoever. He made big time choices that have implications way down the road.

You can say the poker term "all in" doesnt fit all you want, but the discussion is more open-ended than that.

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Old 05-16-2014, 11:44 AM   #36
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Wasn't Doom's extension a McD thing? So Elway was cleaning up another of his messes.
That is exactly right as much as Elway love Doom the player he would not live with that 12 mil a year over pay.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:46 AM   #37
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That is exactly right as much as Elway love Doom the player he would not live with that 12 mil a year over pay.
Yup. I do believe Elway knows the meaning of sunk cost, and showed it in that situation.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:47 AM   #38
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They wanted to keep Doom in the worse way but rather than "straddle" themselves with an unmanageable contract they outright cut him. You say you don't get the connection?
They would have signed Doom if his lawyer didnt counterfeit the situation. They weren't going to chase him while that guy played his silly games.

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Old 05-16-2014, 11:48 AM   #39
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Can you cap Specialists break down Talib contract and cap hits if cut year by year?
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:51 AM   #40
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They would have signed Doom if his lawyer didnt counterfeit the situation. They weren't going to chase him while that guy played his silly games.
Huh? Of course they would sign him for 8 mil that was the whole idea that FAX screw up was going to cost the Broncos 12 mil and Elway said no way and cut one of his best defensive players rather than over pay him is a SB run year. That completely destroys your position that the are "all in" and will risk cap hell to do it/ wrong!!!
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:57 AM   #41
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Huh? Of course they would sign him for 8 mil that was the whole idea that FAX screw up was going to cost the Broncos 12 mil and Elway said no way and cut one of his best defensive players rather than over pay him is a SB run year. That completely destroys your position that the are "all in" and will risk cap hell to do it/ wrong!!!
Elway didnt want to overpay for a short stack like Doom. And you blame him? Yeah, the Broncos took a hit. But going "all in" doesnt mean making a stupid decision. It was a smooth call.

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Old 05-16-2014, 12:01 PM   #42
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Elway didnt want to overpay for a short stack like Doom. And you blame him? Yeah, the Broncos took a hit. But going "all in" doesnt mean making a stupid decision. It was a smooth call.

No you idiot I applaud him.

Are you typing in English?
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:03 PM   #43
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They wanted to keep Doom in the worse way but rather than "straddle" themselves with an unmanageable contract they outright cut him. You say you don't get the connection?
They had to cut him, or did you forget about the fax machine?
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:04 PM   #44
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Dont mean to push your button, but again......you cant see the trees past the forest. Elway didnt limp into the FA period looking for quality bargains. He wanted several BIG TIME, EXPENSIVE players who are some of the best at their positions, that would tilt the odds in his favor. Elway wasnt under the gun by fans, Bowlen....whoever. He made big time choices that have implications way down the road.

You can say the poker term "all in" doesnt fit all you want, but the discussion is more open-ended than that.
We're gonna have to agree to disagree. There ARENT big time implications down the road. That's my whole point, he's not mortgaging the future in favor of the present. He's sticking to his win NOW ON philiosophy. I don't know why signing big FAs and being responsible are mutually exclusive concepts to you. I'm done with this stupid argument
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:06 PM   #45
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They had to cut him, or did you forget about the fax machine?
They did not have to cut him they could have accepted his existing contract. If a team is all in they overpay for a key player under contract. Cutting Doom was the right move but it was not the "all in" move.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:28 PM   #46
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Can you cap Specialists break down Talib contract and cap hits if cut year by year?
This is the best info you'll find, linked below. Note the fine print towards the bottom that only $11.5 million is initially guaranteed, with the rest of the guarantee kicking in on the first day of the 2015-16 league year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/aqib-talib/

More here: http://overthecap.com/cap.php?Name=Aqib Talib&Position=CB&Team=Broncos
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CB Aqib Talib signed a six year, $57 million contract with the Denver Broncos on March 12, 2014. Talib received $11.5 million in fully guaranteed salary. The full guarantee is made up of a $5 million signing bonus, $2 million 2014 roster bonus, and $4.5 million 2014 base salary. His 2015 and 2016 base salaries are both guaranteed for injury only and will become fully guaranteed if he is on the roster on the 3rd day of that respective league year. He has $500,000 roster bonuses paid for games active in the first three years of the contract. Base salaries are $4,500,000(2014), $5,500,000(2015), $8,500,000(2016), $11,000,000(2017), $11,000,000(2018), and $8,000,000(2019).
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:37 PM   #47
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No you idiot I applaud him.

Are you typing in English?
Lets get this straight, we're calling names now......how MATURE of you. Why dont you stick to the topic and stop acting like a maniac.

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Old 05-16-2014, 12:40 PM   #48
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We're gonna have to agree to disagree. There ARENT big time implications down the road. That's my whole point, he's not mortgaging the future in favor of the present. He's sticking to his win NOW ON philiosophy. I don't know why signing big FAs and being responsible are mutually exclusive concepts to you. I'm done with this stupid argument
Fine, its set. Agree to disagree. But youre missing the big pay off of this entire conversation. Theres more variance to consider instead of just simply saying the Broncos arent "all in". Too bad you cant see that.

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Old 05-16-2014, 12:58 PM   #49
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Fine, its set. Agree to disagree. But youre missing the big pay off of this entire conversation. Theres more variance to consider instead of just simply saying the Broncos arent "all in". Too bad you cant see that.
I think its safe to say our definitions of "all in" are completely different. I'm not saying the broncos arent trying their hardest. I'm saying they are doing so AND being responsible at the same time. They are being smart. Their vision is correct. They aren't going all riverboat gambler on the future.

Continue the demeaning bull**** though, by all means. It's easy to gain the respect of others when you're a complete ****head.
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Old 05-16-2014, 01:05 PM   #50
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Anyone else find the "all in" poker comparison tiresome? All in implies some kind of huge risk, which the Broncos havent done. They improved the team and have a squad good enough to compete. Why this is "all in" is beyond me.
It is a really stupid and incorrect analogy.

As is all the other idiotic poker terms being used in this thread.

"sit and go"
"flop"
"short stack"

NC7 is trying way to hard to make a poor analogy work.
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