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Old 04-30-2014, 10:52 AM   #176
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Just got the labs back from my primary care physician. I went for annual check-up complaining about the belly fat I've accumulated and the fact that despite working out, I'm exhausted quite a bit. In all fairness, I love ice cream and I'm married so I don't try as hard. I'm also in my mid 30's so I figure it might be age. There were other things though, like I have been making small mental errors and had difficulty focusing. I've actually noticed this posting here. I'll leave off punctuation and make spelling errors, leave off articles before words... predict a close SB game - clearly something is physically wrong with my mind.

So my Doc says he wants to check my hormones. Fine. We get checked and I register 114 nano-grams (men are usually between 300-800. I'm sure there will be some OM posters here telling us they have a billion ng.) Because of the way the T-levels bind to proteins, and the less than accurate way they test free testosterone, they just test a total and like to re-test. I take some vitamin D, prescription strength and eat a bunch of zinc filled foods and some fats. I'm trying to lift weights and do some burst fast-twitch cardio. So thinking I helped I get tested again....and it's at 128. All that work and I got 14 freaking NG out of it. I'm still tired all the time.

Just to be thorough he's tested a lot of other things on my second visit. My ferritin is safely low, which apparently rules out hemochromatosis, which runs in my family on my Mom's side. My other hormone levels are very safe as well, Pituitary, growth hormone, etc. My blood pressure and cholesterol are awesome. It's just my freaking testosterone. I am glad I'm not seeing one of those hack aging centers where they just stick you with testosterone if you feel tired, but this is looking to be a real issue. Anyone else have or know of someone who has had any experience in this?

Call Dr. OZ.

Watch this video.........and then cry if you like pizza.

http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/heal...=3495781466001
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:53 AM   #177
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We all get your viewpoint. Don't trust big pharma and the FDA there drugs aren't well regulated and might kill you. Got it. Want to repeat it again a few times, just to make sure we get it? Ya better do that people on here might not be that bright to understand after the hundredth time.
Prescription drug abuse hits close to my heart. I make no apologies.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:16 AM   #178
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I had a grey ear hair. 37. Checkmate.
Wait until they start raining from your nostrils overnight like a Colorado afternoon thunderstorm.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:58 AM   #179
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Call Dr. OZ.

Watch this video.........and then cry if you like pizza.

http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/heal...=3495781466001
He's completely correct. My Endo said my BMI wasn't at a point where it should be affecting my testosterone to the degree that it has. And I've been losing weight, just very slowly. I'm also on a paleo/south beach type diet so the breads, cakes and pizza aren't as major of an issue. But that is some good advice.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:00 PM   #180
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Scott Hastings is always telling me about Low-T.
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Old 05-07-2014, 11:57 AM   #181
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The males of this marsupial have the opposite problem Kaylore has...

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/absurd-...nd-drops-dead/
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:57 AM   #182
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So I had my MRI done yesterday and I got an email this morning. Doctor saw enough from the MRI that he'd still like to talk to me, but nothing to worry about I guess. We ran additional labs on my bloodwork to completely rule out hemachromatosis because there are cases where Ferritin levels are not elevated by iron saturation and other indicators of the disease manifest. They all came back within range so I don't have that.

The big news is he gave me the go-ahead to start testosterone treatment. I'll be on 200mg bi-weekly. I was daunted by the size of the needle. Even after seeing several how-to vids on you tube, it's pretty large



They didn't give me a draw needle, either. That sucks because the stuff has the consistency of warmed Crisco. But maybe I'll appreciate the 22 over the 23 when I'm pushing the sludge into my thigh. I'm going to do shoot myself on Saturday morning's so I'll be able to move around throughout the day to keep my leg from swelling too badly. I'm considering doing a blog about the before and long-term after affects just to track and see what kind of difference (if any) it makes. I'll keep you guys posted.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:11 AM   #183
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So I had my MRI done yesterday and I got an email this morning. Doctor saw enough from the MRI that he'd still like to talk to me, but nothing to worry about I guess. We ran additional labs on my bloodwork to completely rule out hemachromatosis because there are cases where Ferritin levels are not elevated by iron saturation and other indicators of the disease manifest. They all came back within range so I don't have that.

The big news is he gave me the go-ahead to start testosterone treatment. I'll be on 200mg bi-weekly. I was daunted by the size of the needle. Even after seeing several how-to vids on you tube, it's pretty large



They didn't give me a draw needle, either. That sucks because the stuff has the consistency of warmed Crisco. But maybe I'll appreciate the 22 over the 23 when I'm pushing the sludge into my thigh. I'm going to do shoot myself on Saturday morning's so I'll be able to move around throughout the day to keep my leg from swelling too badly. I'm considering doing a blog about the before and long-term after affects just to track and see what kind of difference (if any) it makes. I'll keep you guys posted.
This doesn't seem fun.

I'd like to know if you turn into a raging psychopath from this though. Good luck to you!
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #184
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This doesn't seem fun.

I'd like to know if you turn into a raging psychopath from this though. Good luck to you!
There's a lot of myths about TRT. Most of those issues (breast tissue, bachne, 'roid rage) are related to guys who are taking illegal quantities in amounts six times the recommended dosage twice as frequently.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:26 AM   #185
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So I had my MRI done yesterday and I got an email this morning. Doctor saw enough from the MRI that he'd still like to talk to me, but nothing to worry about I guess. We ran additional labs on my bloodwork to completely rule out hemachromatosis because there are cases where Ferritin levels are not elevated by iron saturation and other indicators of the disease manifest. They all came back within range so I don't have that.

The big news is he gave me the go-ahead to start testosterone treatment. I'll be on 200mg bi-weekly. I was daunted by the size of the needle. Even after seeing several how-to vids on you tube, it's pretty large



They didn't give me a draw needle, either. That sucks because the stuff has the consistency of warmed Crisco. But maybe I'll appreciate the 22 over the 23 when I'm pushing the sludge into my thigh. I'm going to do shoot myself on Saturday morning's so I'll be able to move around throughout the day to keep my leg from swelling too badly. I'm considering doing a blog about the before and long-term after affects just to track and see what kind of difference (if any) it makes. I'll keep you guys posted.
Wow, the way that stuff looks, maybe they really are harvesting it from Shananahan's house.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:31 AM   #186
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Wow, the way that stuff looks, maybe they really are harvesting it from Shananahan's house.
That isn't my picture. I was using it for the needle size. My stuff looks like this:

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Old 05-08-2014, 10:41 AM   #187
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That isn't my picture. I was using it for the needle size. My stuff looks like this:

That's better. It's good to know they clean it up a little first.
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #188
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I'm considering doing a blog about the before and long-term after affects just to track and see what kind of difference (if any) it makes.
Day 1: "Ouch guys! That shot did hurt and I'm sure by the end I will hate it even more but I'm not really sore right now."
Day 2: "Ok, now I'm pretty sore but I got to admit, I already feel like I have some more energy."
Day 3: "Tons of energy guys! BTdubs, people are being real a-holes the past couple of days. I may have to regulate if their attitudes don't improve."
Day 4: "Some ****er had too many items in the check out counter so I nicked his artery so he would slowly bleed out in front of me while I whispered in his ear that he won't be able to protect his family now. Darn these shots sure do make me sore!"
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Old 05-08-2014, 10:59 AM   #189
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:45 AM   #190
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Also, tylenol.
Wait, whaa ... ?



Can't wait for your updates, Khan.

And along these lines, few years ago I stumbled upon this fine supplement:
It kicked in a day or two later ... effect was like a fire hose. I think you should be 40-45+ to get the benefit (it relieves prostate swelling or something Doc B will explain), but what a benefit it was.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:50 AM   #191
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Wait, whaa ... ?



Can't wait for your updates, Khan.

And along these lines, few years ago I stumbled upon this fine supplement:
It kicked in a day or two later ... effect was like a fire hose. I think you should be 40-45+ to get the benefit (it relieves prostate swelling or something Doc B will explain), but what a benefit it was.
I've been taking Korean ginseng to help with my mind fog and lethargy. It's helped a little.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:08 PM   #192
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So I had my MRI done yesterday and I got an email this morning. Doctor saw enough from the MRI that he'd still like to talk to me, but nothing to worry about I guess. We ran additional labs on my bloodwork to completely rule out hemachromatosis because there are cases where Ferritin levels are not elevated by iron saturation and other indicators of the disease manifest. They all came back within range so I don't have that.

The big news is he gave me the go-ahead to start testosterone treatment. I'll be on 200mg bi-weekly. I was daunted by the size of the needle. Even after seeing several how-to vids on you tube, it's pretty large



They didn't give me a draw needle, either. That sucks because the stuff has the consistency of warmed Crisco. But maybe I'll appreciate the 22 over the 23 when I'm pushing the sludge into my thigh. I'm going to do shoot myself on Saturday morning's so I'll be able to move around throughout the day to keep my leg from swelling too badly. I'm considering doing a blog about the before and long-term after affects just to track and see what kind of difference (if any) it makes. I'll keep you guys posted.
Back in the mid to early 90's they came out with Immetrex for Migraines and the only way you could take it was with a needle. they had an elaborate injection system that hurt like ****. You had to put the cartridge into a box that had a plastic button on the top that only worked some times. So if you had a bad enough migraine to take this stuff you had to go through all these motions just to load the device then when you had the courage to hit the button it rarely went off and you had to play with the cartridge and get your courage back up again because it hurt like hell when it did go off and pound that needle into your leg.

I finally learned how to break the cartridge open and figured out how to just push it in by myself, much easier to pinch some thigh skin and slowly push it rather than go through the Russian Roulette of the spring pounding the needle in and pushing all the meds in at once.

Took a good year or 2 until they came out with oral doses.
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Old 05-08-2014, 12:12 PM   #193
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For the most part, low t seems like another marketing ploy by big pharma.
Give it a few years and you'll find out how wrong that that misconception is.
Its not just about libido or muscles either, it has major inpact on much of health in later life.

Plus Big Pharma would love to see Testosterone therapy go away, the only reason they finally caved in and for the most part stopped trying to sabotage the big movement among regular MDs like Kaylore's doc who were recognizing testo deficiency in increasingly younger males as they aged a bit and were starting in droves to prescribe BHRT ( bio-identical hormone replacement therapy) that was, and still is, largely being served by compounded prescriptions of testosterone and other endogenous hormones from the many reputable compounding pharmacies across the US, was because they realized the huge bonanza they were missing out on.

The two main reasons they fought the movement for years toward BHRT therapy is because Big Pharma could not patent naturally occurring human hormones like testosterone, DHEA, Estradiol, Melatonin, IGF1 etc etc.

But once the movement toward droves of MDs discovering this very valuable addition to their treatment tool kit for helping to improve their patients lives really took off over the last 8 to 10 years or so, Big Pharma realized that 'if you can't beat em, then at least join em' and settled on the huge profit still available via using patentable delivery methods for delivering the se un-patentable bio-identical hormones they are using in the formulas. Such as the various gels, lotions and injection bases they created to deliver the testosterone in a pharmaceutical formula to men ... as well as women.

For Big Pharma though, they would really rather it all go away as they fear losing tons more money in less prescriptions for everything from Statins, valium and xanax, prozac and the antidepressants to a large degree, all of the libido drugs, diabetes and BP meds etc etc when more and more men and women are starting to mitigate all these raging symptoms of aging that these other drugs are normally intended to try and control, or at least lessen somewhat, in the form of key hormonal and nutrient absorption/assimilation dysfunctions that tend to set in with aging when these key endogenous biochemicals start to decline in both men and women.

It's no coincidence that this is about the same time in life for most people when the wheels start to come off the wagon to one degree or another on what you used to take for granted as normal health when your whole endocrine and digestive system was working at full capacity when you are still relatively young and the same dude or gal was looking back at you each day in the mirror and you were still living under the unshakable delusion that you were invincible :-) HA!

Big Pharma is well aware of this whole process and the humongous value in creating patentable largely symptom control drugs to address these declines in endogenous biochemicals, and their concern over losing a lot of that revenue if hormone replacement gets too successful is understandable.

Its just too bad that the incentive structure is such that first replacing what is missing in our own declining endocrine and biochemical system is not rewarding enough for Big Pharma to make that more of a priority until just recently.

There is room and need for many of the synthetic drugs too for certain circumstances as well, but The fat cats at Big Pharma are clearly well aware that if, and when, the majority of the population starts taking better care of themselves with better diet and exercise as well as judicious repletion of targeted hormones in the normal small physiological doses that have gone missing. As such, they are acutely aware that those symptom control drugs upon which they make trillions of $$$$ would take a big hit on their bottom line if the demand for them starts to decline with a healthier population.

So its a double edged sword for Big Pharma who has called a, more or less, uneasy truce and have decided to profit as much as possible by the inevitable swing toward hormone restoration because of the big movement among regular MDs and their patients demanding it.

They demand it because it works well when the patient and the doc they choose know a good bit about how it all works and are not just winging it.

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Old 05-08-2014, 01:23 PM   #194
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[QUOTE=broncosteven;4104767]Back in the mid to early 90's they came out with Immetrex for Migraines and the only way you could take it was with a needle. they had an elaborate injection system that hurt like ****. You had to put the cartridge into a box that had a plastic button on the top that only worked some times. So if you had a bad enough migraine to take this stuff you had to go through all these motions just to load the device then when you had the courage to hit the button it rarely went off and you had to play with the cartridge and get your courage back up again because it hurt like hell when it did go off and pound that needle into your leg.

I finally learned how to break the cartridge open and figured out how to just push it in by myself, much easier to pinch some thigh skin and slowly push it rather than go through the Russian Roulette of the spring pounding the needle in and pushing all the meds in at once.


Kaylore, glad to hear you dont have any tumor issues to deal with and got the green light for Testosterone replacement.

However Buddy, that every two week dosing of Injectable testosterone cypionate or proprionate is typical of misinformed docs simply using the out of date dosing instructions from the package insert of those injectable testo formulas

This is a good example of the dilemma many of us who have worked in this area for a long while have predicted would happen once Big Pharma got into the swing more of promoting more testosterone testing and repletion. So many knowledgable docs who fully understand this area of medicine have realized and discussed that this would surely happen when more very well-meaning, caring and no doubt otherwise intelligent and excellent physicians would start prescribing testosterone in droves for their patients with low T, but with having only the most rudimentary and misinformed information on how to manage such patients since they never learned anything about this in medical school and have, for teh most part, not done much, if any, new training and certification in BHRT therapy.

But at least the AMA ( American Medical Association) and CME (continuing medical education credit) approved training conferences and symposiums being held frequently now all over the over a dozen times in the US each year are always packed to the gills now with so many existing MDs from many specialties coming repeatedly to these conferences to fill in this big hole in their medical education they got in Med School.

The reason the drug company package insert for injectable testosterone settles on a ridiculous two weeks dosing is because the drug companies figured that was as frequent as they could get most men to inject themselves IM with such a needle and that most would agree to stop by their docs office for injections if they only had to stop by twice a month for a quick shot and thus allowing the doc another small cut on the deal for administering the injections .. a win-win for everyone but the patient!

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the eminent logic of at least trying as close as is feasible to follow your own bodies daily circadian production cycle of endogenous testosterone!!

As such, a 200mg every two week injection gives you a huge physiologic overdose at first with peak levels within a couple days many times over your optimal range (you might feel like Arnold in pumping iron for a few days or Jack the ripper in need of a dose of salt peter :-) and then gradually your levels will fall back to a more optimal point for a brief while before sinking into a deficient state for the last 4 to 5 days of the two weeks period where your energy and libido flag again.

So in essence, this dosing regimen puts you on a slow two week roller coaster of testosterone levels rather than more closely mimicking your natural daily swings in testosterone which follows a more natural circadian rhythm.

Often times, guys under sixty will do much better with a compounded topical testosterone formula you apply twice a day that gives you robust testo levels but always stays pretty much within the optimal physiologic range, yet without the wide swings from supra-physiological overdose at the beginning of week one after each injection to gradually back to a deficiency state where you feel lousy again the last part of week two. It makes no sence, but thats what the package insert says so like lemmings many docs just jfollow the herd off the cliff, and understandalbly.

If you cant absorb topically for one reason or another and for some there is a good reason they may not, then taking the injections in much smaller twice a week SUB-CUTANEOUS injection dose, dividing in your case a 200mg bi-weekly Intra-muscular doses into four 50mg Sub-cutaneous doses ( around the belly button area and the sides of the hips area rotating areas frequently) give far more stable and uniform 24hour daily levels of testosterone and is by far the best why to do injectable testosterone.

Some doc with do a mix of cypionate with longer acting enanthate testosterone for a two week shot that gives a little better blend of both shorter and longer acting testosterone formulas to better fill in the peaks and valleys of just using cypionate or proprionate by themselves every two weeks in 200mg doses.

But the twice weekly sub-cutaenous using a far shorter needle and not penetrating the muscle works fine and is much preferred by most people in the know who use injectable testosterone.

Anyway, we can discuss this more off the forum Kaylore as I noted earlier if you are interested.

Your doc sounds like a good guy and a good doc, its not surprising that like many fairly new to this he favors still the typical two week 200mg cycle. But that can really raise your estrogen levels a lot to through the body seeing such a big initial dose of Testo and then immediately triggering the aromatase enzyme function that converts what it sees as excess testosterone in the body into more estradiol and estrone .. the two main estrogen metabolites in men.

Men need a decent level of estradiol too for good health and libido, but not too much or it can shut the whole energy and libido system down too, just as can a too low Estradiol level, You never want to get below 20pg/ml of Estradiol (E2) and certainly never below 15pg/ml or you will surely get a flaccid and limp Johnson. Ideally, estradiol in men should be around 25 to 30pg/ml and no higher than 38pg/ml
Cheers!
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Old 05-08-2014, 01:47 PM   #195
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That 25 gauge needle won't hurt. It's the stuff injected into the muscle that hurts. We put in 16 gauge needles for IV's all the time and they barely hurt.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:59 PM   #196
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It should load fine. 18 guage will tear up the stopper. Fyi pushing through will dull the needle. Put it in your butt meat works better. Pull a smidge of air behind the juice to get it all out.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:21 PM   #197
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It should load fine. 18 guage will tear up the stopper. Fyi pushing through will dull the needle. Put it in your butt meat works better. Pull a smidge of air behind the juice to get it all out.
Again and slower, please ... plus why do some injected medications require larger diameter needles than others? Diferece doesn't seem to be IM and IV, cause insulin IM hypodermics are thinner than that one.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:21 PM   #198
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Give it a few years and you'll find out how wrong that that misconception is.....
Maybe in in few years the FDA will be done "investigating the risk of stroke, heart attack, and death in men taking FDA-approved testosterone products". Much more studies need to be done and Ill be eager to see them all.

This report by JAMA made the FDA come out with the above statement.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1764051


You can say "big pharma doesnt like low t", but they did like the $1.9 Billion in sales for 2012, up 1800% the previous year. How much did low cut into these other pharmaceuticals sales? Do you really know the answer to that?

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb...erone-20140216



"A man on TV is selling me a miracle cure that will keep me young forever; It's called Androgel.....for something call Low T, a pharmaceutical company-recognized condition affecting millions of men with low testosterone, previously know as getting older."
Stephen Colbert
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:51 PM   #199
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A man on TV is selling me a miracle cure that will keep me young forever; It's called Androgel.....for something call Low T, a pharmaceutical company-recognized condition affecting millions of men with low testosterone, previously know as getting older."
Stephen Colbert
Don't forget about Vaxadril ... Prescott Pharmaceuticals spent a fortune on the development of its marketing plan.
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:58 PM   #200
yerner
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Charlottesville VA
Posts: 3,936
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Sunlight directly on your genitals is supposedly able to boost your T levels like 200 percent. So when you out there getting blown by homeless dudes, give it some sun. That's what I do.

http://www.mensfitness.co.uk/lifesty...t-testosterone


Don't say I'm not helpful.
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