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Old 05-15-2014, 09:53 AM   #226
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You will develop some serious scar tissue which will essentially feel like a lipoma. Make sure you massage the shot vigorously and switch from leg to leg. If necessary, use a permanent marker to mark your last shot.
Bull****
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:54 AM   #227
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Bull****
Um no? This is a very common outcome for people that get frequent injections in a fleshy or fatty area. I feel bad for pregnant women getting progesterone shots every week for 6 months.
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Old 05-15-2014, 12:59 PM   #228
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Just got the labs back from my primary care physician. I went for annual check-up complaining about the belly fat I've accumulated and the fact that despite working out, I'm exhausted quite a bit. In all fairness, I love ice cream and I'm married so I don't try as hard. I'm also in my mid 30's so I figure it might be age. There were other things though, like I have been making small mental errors and had difficulty focusing. I've actually noticed this posting here. I'll leave off punctuation and make spelling errors, leave off articles before words... predict a close SB game - clearly something is physically wrong with my mind.

So my Doc says he wants to check my hormones. Fine. We get checked and I register 114 nano-grams (men are usually between 300-800. I'm sure there will be some OM posters here telling us they have a billion ng.) Because of the way the T-levels bind to proteins, and the less than accurate way they test free testosterone, they just test a total and like to re-test. I take some vitamin D, prescription strength and eat a bunch of zinc filled foods and some fats. I'm trying to lift weights and do some burst fast-twitch cardio. So thinking I helped I get tested again....and it's at 128. All that work and I got 14 freaking NG out of it. I'm still tired all the time.

Just to be thorough he's tested a lot of other things on my second visit. My ferritin is safely low, which apparently rules out hemochromatosis, which runs in my family on my Mom's side. My other hormone levels are very safe as well, Pituitary, growth hormone, etc. My blood pressure and cholesterol are awesome. It's just my freaking testosterone. I am glad I'm not seeing one of those hack aging centers where they just stick you with testosterone if you feel tired, but this is looking to be a real issue. Anyone else have or know of someone who has had any experience in this?
Chris,

My test came back 67 ng/ml. My Doc came back and gave me the results and I told him that from here on he would have to address me as Mrs. Kuper.... he laughed so hard he blew water out of his nose. I used the creams and gels and tomorrow I'm having the Testpel injected into my hip.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:02 PM   #229
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Um no? This is a very common outcome for people that get frequent injections in a fleshy or fatty area. I feel bad for pregnant women getting progesterone shots every week for 6 months.
This is not a sub q shot it is im. So bull****.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:03 PM   #230
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Chris,

My test came back 67 ng/ml. My Doc came back and gave me the results and I told him that from here on he would have to address me as Mrs. Kuper.... he laughed so hard he blew water out of his nose. I used the creams and gels and tomorrow I'm having the Testpel injected into my hip.
72 at 33 yo
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:09 PM   #231
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Wow, that's very low for a guy in his mid 30's Kahn. It's probably genetic. I've been seeing non-stop lawyer commercials for guys who had Testosterone therapy. Guess it's giving all kinds of guys heart attacks and strokes. I'd try to do it naturally like you have been doing. Try giving it some more time and do a bunch of alpha male stuff, like pick fights, flirt with women, wrestle with alligators, lol. J/K, sounds like you're already doing some good things. I do know for a fact as you begin to lose more fat, your Testosterone will increase. Overweight men almost always test lower then men that are fit regardless of age. Also cut back on the sugar. Sugar is a Testosterone killer. And I said this in a different post but there are some mental things you can do that help to increase it also. They did a study and it's proven that flirting does increase your Testosterone. If you have a steady GF or married, that's fine, nobody says to go out and cheat on them. But harmless fun flirting is totally encouraged by many health experts.
My doctor said those tests were done by the VA and they injected all of the 5700 subjects with the same amount regardless of age and level of activity. They didn't even do a blind study where a group are treated with saline injections and nobody knows (including the physician) who got what. Apparently this class action is for the benefit of the attorneys. When you think of it, most VA patients unless they were injured in the war are older so they have a higher probability of having "cardiac events". Anyway, that's how it was explained to me. I'll send you some Vagisil (after I'm done with it)
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:44 PM   #232
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This is not a sub q shot it is im. So bull****.
http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_ed...epubs/subq.pdf

Even continual usage of subcutaneous without rotation can cause it. My cousin, a diabetic got them for a period of time because she is lazy and an old buddy of mine who got into illegal steroid usage got them on his arms and stomach. It was actually pretty disgusting because he lost of all the weight and bulked up in muscle so they were pretty apparent.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:00 PM   #233
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Chris,

My test came back 67 ng/ml. My Doc came back and gave me the results and I told him that from here on he would have to address me as Mrs. Kuper.... he laughed so hard he blew water out of his nose. I used the creams and gels and tomorrow I'm having the Testpel injected into my hip.
Nice. I wanted to do the testpel but the injections are effectively free through my insurance. I want to eventually get to the point where I can inject weekly. I expect it will take some months before that happens. Let me know how things go. I know you've had other problems with your health that may be a contributing factor. We'll have to compare notes and see how we both feel some months from now.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:00 PM   #234
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http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_ed...epubs/subq.pdf

Even continual usage of subcutaneous without rotation can cause it. My cousin, a diabetic got them for a period of time because she is lazy and an old buddy of mine who got into illegal steroid usage got them on his arms and stomach. It was actually pretty disgusting because he lost of all the weight and bulked up in muscle so they were pretty apparent.
That is my point you get them from subq shots not im shots.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:03 PM   #235
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http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_ed...epubs/subq.pdf

Even continual usage of subcutaneous without rotation can cause it. My cousin, a diabetic got them for a period of time because she is lazy and an old buddy of mine who got into illegal steroid usage got them on his arms and stomach. It was actually pretty disgusting because he lost of all the weight and bulked up in muscle so they were pretty apparent.
Yeah IM is deeper than SC. That could be a reason. The only negative I hear about with IM not rotating is sterile abscessing. I'm not a doctor, but I'd imagine you'd have to use a pretty messed up needle or be moving around a ton create scar tissue in your quad. My needle is long but it's only a 22 gauge so I can't imagine there was that much damage.
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Old 05-15-2014, 09:47 PM   #236
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Attention ALL men and all women who care about the
happiness of men they love.

Testosterone levels in men are dropping every single year,
and are way lower than they used to be for our fathers and
grandfathers.

Studies showed that the testosterone levels in men in 2003 were
about 20% lower than in 1988...

And the startling fact is that unlike what most people think, a
major decline in testosterone is NOT part of the normal aging
process.

This drop in testosterone affects all aspects of a man’s health
and entire life:
- Sexual and reproductive function
- Muscle mass
- Fat loss
- Hair growth
- Bone density
- Red blood cell production
- Emotional health (depression is often linked with low “T” levels)

But the puzzling question is… what’s robbing men from their
most important hormone?

The answer is simple: they are making the following 3 mistakes
over and over again:

Mistake #1: Excess cortisol

Cortisol is one of the main stress hormones inside your body,
but it’s also the opposite of testosterone.

More cortisol generally means less testosterone, and vice versa.
And what increases cortisol?

Most of our “modern problems”:
- Sugar
- Caffeine
- Stress and worry
- Overtraining (exercise junkies, you know who you are)
- Alcohol
- Processed foods in general
- Lack of sleep
- Etc.

THE FIX: I know you probably don't indulge on processed foods
all the time, but watch your sleep habits and caffeine/alcohol
consumption closely.

Mistake #2: The wrong cosmetics

I'm NOT taking about make-up...

I'm talking about your shaving cream, your sunscreen, your
shampoo and your soap, or even about your deodorant.

All these cosmetics contain parabens and phtalates, which are
chemicals that are shown to mess with your hormones like
testosterone.

THE FIX: Try to get rid of these toxic cosmetics as much as
possible, and find natural alternatives at your local health food
store.

Mistake #3: Low fat diets

You should know by now that saturated fats in butter, raw dairy
and quality grass-fed meats are NOT unhealthy.

Sticking to a low fat diet is a surefire way to make your "T"
levels plummet.

In fact, a high saturated fat and dietary cholesterol
consumption will help you boost your testosterone.

THE FIX: Eat plenty of fatty meats (only grass-fed and organic
if possible), eggs, wild-caught fish and organ meats if you like
them.

=======================

Start by implementing the 3 steps above. They will make a
huge difference.

Now, if you really suffer from low testosterone levels make
sure to read this article on how to boost your "T" levels the
safe and natural way:

==> BOOST testosterone, FIGHT fat-storing estrogen and get your "Mo-Jo" back

Talk soon,
Nick
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Old 05-15-2014, 10:16 PM   #237
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Chris,

My test came back 67 ng/ml. My Doc came back and gave me the results and I told him that from here on he would have to address me as Mrs. Kuper
Lol.....so now both you and Khan can be addressed as Mrs. Kuper.
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Old 05-16-2014, 11:55 AM   #238
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Yeah IM is deeper than SC. That could be a reason. The only negative I hear about with IM not rotating is sterile abscessing. I'm not a doctor, but I'd imagine you'd have to use a pretty messed up needle or be moving around a ton create scar tissue in your quad. My needle is long but it's only a 22 gauge so I can't imagine there was that much damage.
OK. I just got back from the Doc who did the testpel injections. Tina came with so she could give me the play-by-play. They made me lay on my left side and put a drape on my right hip, Tina said the needle they used to inject the local anesthetic was 2-1/2" long and he stuck me with the first 1/4" of it and started pushing the plunger as he put the needle in. He had another doc in the room, learning how to do it. He is my diabetes physician and he let me know that the tool he was going to use was created by him and he had another guy engineer it. It looked like a stainless steel grenade launcher and after he numbed me up he used the "tool" create tunnels in the flesh so the pellets could be spaced evenly to avoid bunching up. It was absolutely painless and it took about 10 minutes because he was describing the process to the young lady he was teaching the procedure to. It was all sub-cu and he told me that that there was less than a drop of blood I shouldn't have any pain either. Apparently the pellets are very spendy but my insurance paid 100% so we will see how I feel this weekend but he wasn't too concerned.
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:12 PM   #239
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I always have a 4 hour erection
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:16 PM   #240
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...I register 114 nano-grams (men are usually between 300-800. I'm trying to lift weights and do some burst fast-twitch cardio. So thinking I helped I get tested again....and it's at 128.
My most recent test result was 12 ng.

But I'm good with that. :-)
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:20 PM   #241
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My most recent test result was 12 ng.

But I'm good with that. :-)
Yay for you!



Now go away. Though if anyone is changing gender the other way, they can post here.
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Old 05-21-2014, 01:42 PM   #242
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I always have a 4 hour erection

Just 4?

Weaksauce.

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Old 05-29-2014, 08:23 AM   #243
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So update! I had my second injection a few days ago. They say week three, going into the peak of the second cycle, is when you really notice. I have to say I definitely have in a variety of areas both good and bad.
  • My Energy level is definitely up. Way up. I don't need naps like I felt like I did. I don't find simple tasks like bending over to pick stuff up really tiring or not worth the effort. My willingness to do things is higher as a result. I'm more proactive about doing work.

  • The mind fog is gone. I focus more clearly on things and think things through more quickly. I remember details clearer and faster. Yesterday I forgot where I put my keys and quickly recalled everything I did when I got home and found them quickly rather than whining and tromping through the usual places I leave them.

  • Libido is higher and my soldier "checks in" more frequently throughout the day. He's also got some pep in his step. There are downs to this though; Just because you're really hungry doesn't mean the restaurant wants to give you a sandwich at 3 AM. I notice women more and think about sex more. It's like I'm in my 20's again. This part has been something of an adjustment because my drive has slowly been shifting down so acclimating was no thing. But within a few weeks going back ten years - like I said, it is an adjustment.

  • Speaking of hunger, I am ravenous. I haven't altered my died or exercise routine at all in terms of what I do, but I get surges of hunger. Strangely, I've not gained any weight, though I haven't lost any either. I have lost a half an inch off my waist, though. So it's probably moving around.

  • I can definitely lift more, especially a few days after the shot. I'd say by day 3 or 4 I feel like Superman. I was able to add 50lbs to my bench, and my resistance training has benifited all around. My cardio I do stairs or eliptical and I don't fatigue as quickly. I can sprint (7.5) MPH for 5 minutes when I usually would need to throttle down around the two minute mark. My muscle mass has increased slightly in my arms, but more noticeably in my upper pecs and quads. Before some of you suggest it is Gynomastia, it is not. This is firm muscle tissue, not man-boobs. This could be also that I've been in the gym 5 days a week since February, but I'm definitely seeing results now that I wasn't seeing dieting and exercising for the two months prior. During the back end of my cycle I am not as strong but it doesn't feel weak, just normal.

  • Mood has been a mixed bag. I don't get as down or worried as I used to, but I am more willing to react to things that bother me. Things don't bother me "more" than they did before, and it's not like more things annoy me than they used. I don't suddenly hate everything, however my willingness to react is much higher. This has had mixed results. The ugliest it got was Monday when I had my entire left arm and head out the window of my car flipping off and screaming at a guy for not letting me merge. But I also have been very active at work and around the house. No spousal fights either or anger toward my wife. So so far it has been more righteous indignation that just roid hating. I'll let you all know if I pull a Ben Affleck and start slamming my shoulder into a door frame over and over.

Overall the changes are a net positive. The hardest changes to adjust to were the libido (puns!) and emotional changes just because I wasn't used to it and the switch back was pretty sudden. I am a pretty easy going guy and that hasn't changed. I don't find that more things irritate me. I am not looking for a fight or anything. But I am less intimidated by people and my willingness to do something about things that I don't believe are right or need to be taken care of is much greater than it was. The other benefits are great: Better sleep, more energy, greater focus, more strength, pinker skin, more endurance, loss of fat. That has all been fantastic.

I have a re-test with my Doctor in a four weeks to re-check my estrogen levels and see if we need to tweak my dosage. I may opt to switch to weekly injections just to avoid the peak and trough affect. I'll keep you all posted.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:23 AM   #244
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So update! I had my second injection a few days ago. They say week three, going into the peak of the second cycle, is when you really notice. I have to say I definitely have in a variety of areas both good and bad.
  • My Energy level is definitely up. Way up. I don't need naps like I felt like I did. I don't find simple tasks like bending over to pick stuff up really tiring or not worth the effort. My willingness to do things is higher as a result. I'm more proactive about doing work.

  • The mind fog is gone. I focus more clearly on things and think things through more quickly. I remember details clearer and faster. Yesterday I forgot where I put my keys and quickly recalled everything I did when I got home and found them quickly rather than whining and tromping through the usual places I leave them.

  • Libido is higher and my soldier "checks in" more frequently throughout the day. He's also got some pep in his step. There are downs to this though; Just because you're really hungry doesn't mean the restaurant wants to give you a sandwich at 3 AM. I notice women more and think about sex more. It's like I'm in my 20's again. This part has been something of an adjustment because my drive has slowly been shifting down so acclimating was no thing. But within a few weeks going back ten years - like I said, it is an adjustment.

  • Speaking of hunger, I am ravenous. I haven't altered my died or exercise routine at all in terms of what I do, but I get surges of hunger. Strangely, I've not gained any weight, though I haven't lost any either. I have lost a half an inch off my waist, though. So it's probably moving around.

  • I can definitely lift more, especially a few days after the shot. I'd say by day 3 or 4 I feel like Superman. I was able to add 50lbs to my bench, and my resistance training has benifited all around. My cardio I do stairs or eliptical and I don't fatigue as quickly. I can sprint (7.5) MPH for 5 minutes when I usually would need to throttle down around the two minute mark. My muscle mass has increased slightly in my arms, but more noticeably in my upper pecs and quads. Before some of you suggest it is Gynomastia, it is not. This is firm muscle tissue, not man-boobs. This could be also that I've been in the gym 5 days a week since February, but I'm definitely seeing results now that I wasn't seeing dieting and exercising for the two months prior. During the back end of my cycle I am not as strong but it doesn't feel weak, just normal.

  • Mood has been a mixed bag. I don't get as down or worried as I used to, but I am more willing to react to things that bother me. Things don't bother me "more" than they did before, and it's not like more things annoy me than they used. I don't suddenly hate everything, however my willingness to react is much higher. This has had mixed results. The ugliest it got was Monday when I had my entire left arm and head out the window of my car flipping off and screaming at a guy for not letting me merge. But I also have been very active at work and around the house. No spousal fights either or anger toward my wife. So so far it has been more righteous indignation that just roid hating. I'll let you all know if I pull a Ben Affleck and start slamming my shoulder into a door frame over and over.

Overall the changes are a net positive. The hardest changes to adjust to were the libido (puns!) and emotional changes just because I wasn't used to it and the switch back was pretty sudden. I am a pretty easy going guy and that hasn't changed. I don't find that more things irritate me. I am not looking for a fight or anything. But I am less intimidated by people and my willingness to do something about things that I don't believe are right or need to be taken care of is much greater than it was. The other benefits are great: Better sleep, more energy, greater focus, more strength, pinker skin, more endurance, loss of fat. That has all been fantastic.

I have a re-test with my Doctor in a four weeks to re-check my estrogen levels and see if we need to tweak my dosage. I may opt to switch to weekly injections just to avoid the peak and trough affect. I'll keep you all posted.
That's fantastic Kaylore but has it helped that premature ejaculation?
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:24 AM   #245
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That's fantastic Kaylore but has it helped that premature ejaculation?
I'll let you know if we ever have sex again.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:28 AM   #246
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Seriously Kahn that is an amazing improvement. I'm gonna check into this as I have many of the symptoms you describe.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:31 AM   #247
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Seriously Kahn that is an amazing improvement. I'm gonna check into this as I have many of the symptoms you describe.
It's a good idea. Get your work done from a doctor you trust. Then try and raise it with natural means. I doubt you'll have a problem with trying that. If then you see you could use some help, take it. It really makes a difference. The low-t was my Doctor's idea, not my own. I was there for low energy. He figured the rest out and along the way I was able to confirm I didn't have hemachromatosis which was nice to know.
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:34 AM   #248
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Seriously Kahn that is an amazing improvement. I'm gonna check into this as I have many of the symptoms you describe.
times like this Im glad Im a woman...but seriously I hope all turns out well for both of you... I do know from living with an older man sometimes it just comes down to age...not trying to make light of the situation by any means but if your partner has patience and understanding that will help a lot to...some of it from my experience is a mind over matter kind of thing...
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Old 05-29-2014, 09:58 AM   #249
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It's a good idea. Get your work done from a doctor you trust. Then try and raise it with natural means. I doubt you'll have a problem with trying that. If then you see you could use some help, take it. It really makes a difference. The low-t was my Doctor's idea, not my own. I was there for low energy. He figured the rest out and along the way I was able to confirm I didn't have hemachromatosis which was nice to know.
I want to thank you Kaylore for bringing this to the board. Many, probably most, men are not comfortable discussing this issue in such a public manner. I bet your courage to address this has helped more that a couple of people here.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:03 AM   #250
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72 at 33 yo
You're only 33, man?
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