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Old 04-24-2014, 02:56 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Requiem View Post
Price -- come up with a list of 5-7 "losers" you don't want us to pick and we can compare notes. You know how big of a melt down guy I am.
Biggest Losers at #31:

1. Rasheed Hageman -Would step in the door 3rd string on the depth chart. Tarzan in looks only.
2. Bradley Roby - Maybe it's only scheme, but lining up 10 yards off the LOS and giving up 200 yards to Abbrederis is not a recipe for success in the NFL.
3. Marquee Lee - Has USC WR bust written all over him. Easy to pass-over in the 1st with deep WR draft.
4. Chris Borland - Why even waste a 5th rounder on this guy? Short and slow with short arms.
5. Dee Ford - Finally manages 10 sacks after being in college for 5 years, with only 29 tackles. Then claims he's the best pass-rusher in college. Lol.
6. Louis Nix - This years John Hankins. Can only bench 24 times. Should be mid-2nd rounder.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:09 PM   #102
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I would have no issue with Ward whatsoever.
He can play nickel against some bigger WR's and athletic TE's, he can swing between FS and SS. If Rahim doesn't recover well he can move in as the starter.
Lestat is that you?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:14 PM   #103
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My top.give at #31:

1. Mosley - not happening
2. Shazier - not happening
3. Verrett - need a Nickel CB now, probably need to replace Harris next year.
4. Ward - only if they play TJ at LB in Nickel
5. Moncrief - replaces Sanders on the outside when Welker leaves next year.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:23 PM   #104
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Lestat is that you?
Of course it's me. I love Ward as a prospect. I have said that many times.
The safeties we disagree on are Pryor and Clinton-Dix.
But you will notice I also said he would start "IF" Moore wasn't recovered from his injury.

Besides, there is a difference between what I want us to do on defense and on the OL and what I fully expect us to do.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:34 PM   #105
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Of course it's me. I love Ward as a prospect. I have said that many times.
The safeties we disagree on are Pryor and Clinton-Dix.
But you will notice I also said he would start "IF" Moore wasn't recovered from his injury.

Besides, there is a difference between what I want us to do on defense and on the OL and what I fully expect us to do.
And we disagree on Pryor and Dix how again?
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:41 PM   #106
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My top.give at #31:

1. Mosley - not happening
2. Shazier - not happening
3. Verrett - need a Nickel CB now, probably need to replace Harris next year.
4. Ward - only if they play TJ at LB in Nickel
5. Moncrief - replaces Sanders on the outside when Welker leaves next year.
I have a big time want for Moncrief in Denver, but he is a 2nd rounder at best. Hell, before the last few weeks he was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:41 PM   #107
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And we disagree on Pryor and Dix how again?
Unless I am confusing you with another poster.
You think Dix is overrated and that Pryor is the best S in the draft.
Whereas I feel that Dix will be a phenomenal S in the NFL and Pryor for me is behind Dix and Ward.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #108
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No reason you can't have Richburg learn the ropes of the NFL for a season and also serve as an outstanding backup to C/G. Hell they did that with Sly last year. Plus you would be gaining a pick somewhere for moving out of the 1st round.
No, just no.
Makes no sense to take a C now. OG or OT yes.
Even if you take a OG high that is a bit of a stretch now due to Franklin moving over. You already have 2 guys duking it out at C. Adding a 3rd and then moving one over to G is kinda overkill.

With the move of Franklin the C position can be addressed next year.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:48 PM   #109
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I'm not saying I WANT it to happen, I'm saying don't be surprised if it does.
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Old 04-24-2014, 03:59 PM   #110
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FOr the people who want to trade down, there's only so many roster spots on this team. If you want to get an extra 3rd, fine...but getting 5ths wont do us a ton of good
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:25 PM   #111
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I'm not saying I WANT it to happen, I'm saying don't be surprised if it does.
I understand that. But it still makes no sense.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:24 PM   #112
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I have a big time want for Moncrief in Denver, but he is a 2nd rounder at best. Hell, before the last few weeks he was a late 2nd early 3rd rounder
I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, so you kind of have to pick BPA guys based on where your holes are now and where you expect your holes to be in the future. Welker will probably be gone next year. Sanders will probably shift to the slot, so what WR do you want lining up across from them?

Moncrief is about as good as you're going to get picking 31st in every round.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:53 PM   #113
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I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, so you kind of have to pick BPA guys based on where your holes are now and where you expect your holes to be in the future. Welker will probably be gone next year. Sanders will probably shift to the slot, so what WR do you want lining up across from them?

Moncrief is about as good as you're going to get picking 31st in every round.
Would much rather us go for Adams,Robinson or Bryant in the 2nd.
Moncrief should not be a 1st round pick for us. He is a 2nd, potentially a mid or even high 2nd, but a 2nd round player nonetheless.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:12 PM   #114
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I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, so you kind of have to pick BPA guys based on where your holes are now and where you expect your holes to be in the future. Welker will probably be gone next year. Sanders will probably shift to the slot, so what WR do you want lining up across from them?

Moncrief is about as good as you're going to get picking 31st in every round.
What?
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:18 PM   #115
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I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft
what is your system for grading prospects. Is youtube involved? not bantering, just wondering.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:24 PM   #116
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Hopefully someone falls in love with Carr or Mettenburger. I see Browns or Jacksonville looking to be trading partners.
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:26 PM   #117
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I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, so you kind of have to pick BPA guys based on where your holes are now and where you expect your holes to be in the future. Welker will probably be gone next year. Sanders will probably shift to the slot, so what WR do you want lining up across from them?

Moncrief is about as good as you're going to get picking 31st in every round.
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When I finally got around to watching Dennard last week, I was amazed. He's like a slightly slower version of Revis. Some of the best ability to stay in the WR's hip pocket and strip the ball a it arrives, that I've ever seen.

Champ, in his prime, was better...but Dennard looks like the real deal.
You just said you just watched one of the top players in the draft a week ago and you want us to take much stock in the amount of players you have ranked
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Old 04-24-2014, 07:46 PM   #118
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What?
My firm belief is that you should be able to draft a Pro Bowler in the 1st round.

Elite
Pro Bowl Caliber
Solid Starters


Code:
1	Jadaveon Clowney	
2	Greg Robinson	
3	Khalil Mack	
4	Jake Matthews	
5	Sammy Watkins	
6	Mike Evans	
7	Darqueze Dennard	
8	Taylor Lewan	
9	Justin Gilbert	
10	Anthony Barr	
11	CJ Mosley	
12	Ryan Shazier	
13	Aaron Donald	
14	Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix	
15	Brandin Cooks	
16	Calvin Pryor	
17	Eric Ebron	
18	Odell Beckham	
19	Blake Bortles	
20	Timmy Jernigan	
21	Xavier Su'a-Filo	
22	Stephon Tuitt	
23	Teddy Bridgewater	
24	Johnny Manziel
25	Kyle Fuller	
26	Jason Verrett	
27	Demarcus Lawrence	
28	Zach Martin	
29	Donte Moncrief	
30	Jimmie Ward	
31	Morgan Moses	
32	Kony Ealy
I only give 1st round grades to guys who are Elite or Pro Bowlers. For me, about #24-#70 in this draft are Solid Starters. After that, are Possible Starters and on down.

Last edited by pricejj; 04-24-2014 at 08:06 PM..
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:01 PM   #119
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...
Unlike you, I don't have the time (nor the will) to start digging into the draft in December. I started evaluating video after the combine and I really only care about guys who the Broncos might draft. This year, I've deliberately tried not to get as involved as I have in the past, but it sucked me in lately.

How many guys with 1st round grades do you have? You act like it's a race. The draft is still 2 weeks away. The Broncos are still evaluating talent. You think you're special because you had everybody evaluated 2 months ago? Lol
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:16 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
My firm belief is that you should be able to draft a Pro Bowler in the 1st round.

Elite
Pro Bowl Caliber
Solid Starters


Code:
1	Jadaveon Clowney	
2	Greg Robinson	
3	Khalil Mack	
4	Jake Matthews	
5	Sammy Watkins	
6	Mike Evans	
7	Darqueze Dennard	
8	Taylor Lewan	
9	Justin Gilbert	
10	Anthony Barr	
11	CJ Mosley	
12	Ryan Shazier	
13	Aaron Donald	
14	Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix	
15	Brandin Cooks	
16	Calvin Pryor	
17	Eric Ebron	
18	Odell Beckham	
19	Blake Bortles	
20	Timmy Jernigan	
21	Xavier Su'a-Filo	
22	Stephon Tuitt	
23	Teddy Bridgewater	
24	Johnny Manziel
25	Kyle Fuller	
26	Jason Verrett	
27	Demarcus Lawrence	
28	Zach Martin	
29	Donte Moncrief	
30	Jimmie Ward	
31	Morgan Moses	
32	Kony Ealy
I only give 1st round grades to guys who are Elite or Pro Bowlers. For me, about #24-#70 in this draft are Solid Starters for me. After that, are Possible Starters and on down.
I don't know if I would state it like that. I mean how many times have we seen players drafted high in the draft turn out to be total busts. I think it would be safer to say that players at the top of the draft have fewer holes in there game.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:24 PM   #121
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I only have 22 guys with 1st round grades in this draft, so you kind of have to pick BPA guys based on where your holes are now and where you expect your holes to be in the future. Welker will probably be gone next year. Sanders will probably shift to the slot, so what WR do you want lining up across from them?

Moncrief is about as good as you're going to get picking 31st in every round.
This is one of the deeper drafts in recent history. If you said last year's draft only had 22 guys with a 1st round grade I'd believe it, but this year has talent that is 1st round quality to midway through the 2nd.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:46 PM   #122
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Unlike you, I don't have the time (nor the will) to start digging into the draft in December. I started evaluating video after the combine and I really only care about guys who the Broncos might draft. This year, I've deliberately tried not to get as involved as I have in the past, but it sucked me in lately.

How many guys with 1st round grades do you have? You act like it's a race. The draft is still 2 weeks away. The Broncos are still evaluating talent. You think you're special because you had everybody evaluated 2 months ago? Lol
I watch college football so it's not all that hard to know who is a player to watch. Also its called youtube videos! Not film man. Stop trying to make it sound better then it is.

I call you out because you continue to claim the draft is weak then continue to claim that you don't spend that much time on it (I think you do spend time a lot of time on it). Which is it? I'm curious to know. Honestly when you say the draft is weak and Denver won't have anything worth a dick a pick 31 makes me laugh when you yourself claim you haven't spent more then a few months "evaluating" players when real scouts never stop. So if they say the draft is deep, I'll take their word for it.

I've personally changed how I have evaluated the draft ever since they started doing coverage of the senior bowl, combine, and other all-star games. I don't need to make a short list of players that I have had time to look at and say well that is it for quality players. That seems foolish to me, but to each there own I guess.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:51 PM   #123
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Biggest Losers at #31:

1. Rasheed Hageman -Would step in the door 3rd string on the depth chart. Tarzan in looks only.
2. Bradley Roby - Maybe it's only scheme, but lining up 10 yards off the LOS and giving up 200 yards to Abbrederis is not a recipe for success in the NFL.
3. Marquee Lee - Has USC WR bust written all over him. Easy to pass-over in the 1st with deep WR draft.
4. Chris Borland - Why even waste a 5th rounder on this guy? Short and slow with short arms.
5. Dee Ford - Finally manages 10 sacks after being in college for 5 years, with only 29 tackles. Then claims he's the best pass-rusher in college. Lol.
6. Louis Nix - This years John Hankins. Can only bench 24 times. Should be mid-2nd rounder.
Roby...

It was scheme and the fact that he was hurt all of last year. Even with those things going against him...he was outstanding.

There was a reason OSU's secondary coach left and CB's coach was demoted.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:59 PM   #124
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I watch college football so it's not all that hard to know who is a player to watch. Also its called youtube videos! Not film man. Stop trying to make it sound better then it is.
I said 'video', not film. No, I don't take as seriously as some on here. I don't plan on applying to be an NFL scout, or in the front office. I just do it for fun. I usually do the 1st three rounds, and pick out a few players who I want the Broncos to draft later. If I started doing contests like the Omane mock draft, I would take it much more seriously, but I like it the way it is.

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I call you out because you continue to claim the draft is weak then continue to claim that you don't spend that much time on it (I think you do spend time a lot of time on it). Which is it? I'm curious to know.
I haven't seen any experts who have more than 25 1st round graded players. The only difference is, they grade Bridgewater and Manziel as 1st rounders and I don't. So what. I think the draft is very deep in players contribute, and has more solid starters than usual, but it's not bursting with 1st round talent.

In my opinion, this draft is weak at:
1. QB
2. DL
3. RB

average at:
4. OL
5. TE
6. LB

strong at:
6. WR
7. DB
8. OL

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Honestly when you say the draft is weak and Denver won't have anything worth a dick a pick 31 makes me laugh when you yourself claim you haven't spent more then a few months "evaluating" players when real scouts never stop. So if they say the draft is deep, I'll take their word for it.
I didn't say it wasn't deep. Find one single scout who says this draft (or any other draft in the history of the NFL) has 32 players with a 1st round grade. There isn't one (except maybe Mayock who is overzealous with some of his evaluations). Most scouts have similar philosophies to me, in that regard.

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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
I've personally changed how I have evaluated the draft ever since they started doing coverage of the senior bowl, combine, and other all-star games. I don't need to make a short list of players that I have had time to look at and say well that is it for quality players. That seems foolish to me, but to each there own I guess.
My method of evaluation this year was as follows:
1. Develop a 2-year salary cap spreadsheet for the Broncos.
2. Grade each players performance for that year and determine needs at each position throughout the entire roster, based on performance and expiring contracts.
3. Monitor the Broncos moves throughout Free Agency to determine what remaining roster spots need to be filled in the draft, and exactly what positions still need starters, backups, and 3rd string.
4. Determine Broncos available money to spend in FA next year.
5. Determine what starting spots will probably be vacated based on expiring contracts the next year.
6. Examine all measurables from the combine, with a specific emphasis on positions of need.
7. Look at production levels (if applicable) of all the players that I think have the physical ability to start in the NFL at positions of need for the Broncos.
8. I have specific criteria for measurables and production thresholds for each position.
9. Usually, the first position I evaluate is DL, because it's my favorite.
10. Start watching video of guys at positions of need for the Broncos who have passed my measurables and production tests. Watch 3-5 games of each player who I'm interested in. Including Senior Bowl and practice. Watch interviews of several prospects.
11. Compare measurables, production, and eye-test to begin to develop my Broncos-centric draft board of the first couple rounds.
12. Continue to monitor expert opinion leading up to the draft, watching for late risers who I didn't even know existed, and check them out if they pass all the tests.
13. Look at next years draft to determine areas of strength and weakness to determine if there's any information that may affect my decisions in this years draft.
14. Develop my top 5 at the Broncos top 2 picks.
15. Identify a guy at each Broncos pick later in the draft (who also fit all my criteria) who I want the Broncos to pick.
16. Glean some information from who you guys like leading up to the draft and check out prospects that you guys bring up who I never heard about.
17. Iterate
18. Start watching some other 1st and 2nd round prospects who have no chance at falling to the Broncos (like Dennard)
19. Finalize a Broncos-centric big board of the first 2 rounds.
20. Don't get too involved evaluating talent in rounds 3 - 7
21. Freak out after the Broncos don't pick anybody who I wanted.


So there's my process if you want to clown it. I try to keep it super-efficient and try not to waste a lot of time.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:07 PM   #125
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I don't need to make a short list of players that I have had time to look at and say well that is it for quality players. That seems foolish to me, but to each there own I guess.
That's bull**** and you know it. I said "I have 22 1st round grades". You say, I made "a short list of players and that's all the quality there is".

I think it's foolish to try to twist other people's words. To each their own I guess
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