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Old 04-10-2014, 08:55 AM   #26
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I agree. While he didn't get a slew of sacks in his limited time, he was still a force. But I think he will be back with a chip because of the suspension and then the injury and all the negative rep (which was deserved).
This.

Everyone thinks Miller sucked last year because he didn't have 12 sacks in his limited time.

See, there's 11 guys on the field and they all have assignments and those assignments aren't always obvious to most mouth breathing bleacher monkeys. Especially when they are doing their assignment well.

Everyone sees it when they **** up, (see Ayers, Robert and his failure to set the edge time after time in the SB) but no one notices when they do it right. Therefore, if you don't notice them because they aren't jumping over the line to sack the QB as soon as the snap gets there, then said player must clearly suck. Because when I play him on Madden he does awesome stuff every play.

Having said that, he does have plenty to prove this year. Mostly on if he has the dedication to really live up to his potential.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #27
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I am excited to see McCray and Q. Smith this season.

I personally felt that McCray was having an outstanding training camp and pre-season before his injury.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:44 AM   #28
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My wish is Webster have a breakout season. We need that the most.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:56 AM   #29
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:39 AM   #30
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Oh I guess being 7th in the NFL in YPC and leading the NFL to the end season in YPC doesn't mean much.

If you have to quote punisher in support of your opinion, you've already lost.
Ball had 120 carries. The reason his YPC was so high was because of his lack of touches. If he had been getting a full workload, it would have dropped. So no, it actually doesn't mean much, at all. How can you justifiably say a guy who had 120 touches the whole season, is better than a guy who was named the offensive rookie of the year in the NFL? The Packers haven't had an effective running game in years, he came in and changed that immediately.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:43 AM   #31
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I was never particularly impressed with Lacy whenever I saw Green Bay playing. For the life of me I don't get why so many are so big on him on these boards. He's okay, but nothing he did last year indicated he is actually better than Ball (I personally don't even think he's as good). Last I checked 4.7 ypc is better than 4.1.
And for the life of ME, I don't understand why so many people put so much importance into Ball's YPC number when he only had 120 carries. It's a deceiving statistic.

Last edited by Bronc0guy; 04-10-2014 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:45 AM   #32
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Never going to happen in what sense? No one better? I think a pretty convincing argument can be made that Peterson IS better in the "new" NFL.
Thought I mentioned Peterson but maybe not?
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:53 AM   #33
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Thought I mentioned Peterson but maybe not?
Adrian Peterson averaged 4.5 YPC last season, Lynch only averaged 4.2. Clearly, they are inferior players to Montee Ball. YPC proves it, distinctly in the case of Lynch.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:58 AM   #34
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I would think that the defenses Ball faced had more to do with his YPC than his 120 carries.

That said, yes, Lacy had the better rookie campaign, but Ball had some great runs as well. Ball was very consistent when given a fair amount of carries.

At this point I wouldn't say that one is significantly better than the other. One had more opportunities and was a bigger name, but Ball ran very good when given an opportunity. It's not enough at this point to give a finger to Elway, that's for sure.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:11 AM   #35
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The difference is Lacy did not have a very capable back ahead f him whereas Ball did in KM. Also Fox is notorious for not playing rookies in skill positions.

You can't fault him for only having 120 carries.

It took a while for Ball to grasp Manning's offense where pass protection was at least as important as caring the ball.

Last edited by baja; 04-10-2014 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:26 AM   #36
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Adrian Peterson averaged 4.5 YPC last season, Lynch only averaged 4.2. Clearly, they are inferior players to Montee Ball. YPC proves it, distinctly in the case of Lynch.
I think the issue here is that i'm just getting too old, i'm from the era where RB's were the workhorse players getting tons of carries. Back in the day the rushing title was a big deal

I'm too old and a lot of the posters here on the 'mane probably started watching football in 09 so they have no idea what is meant when I say the days of a Davis, Sanders, Smith, etc......are long gone. It's a concept that they'll never grasp because they barely know who those guys are let alone how the NFL was in the 70's, 80's and early-mid 90's

Sigh - old people suck.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #37
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I'm not faulting Ball, or Elway. He may very well turn into the back Elway thought he would be all along. I'm just stating the fact that it's silly to say he's clearly better than Lacy. Absolutely nothing to base that on, other than his YPC. Which I've already said multiple times why I don't believe that stat means anything in this case.

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Old 04-10-2014, 11:32 AM   #38
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I think the issue here is that i'm just getting too old, i'm from the era where RB's were the workhorse players getting tons of carries. Back in the day the rushing title was a big deal

I'm too old and a lot of the posters here on the 'mane probably started watching football in 09 so they have no idea what is meant when I say the days of a Davis, Sanders, Smith, etc......are long gone. It's a concept that they'll never grasp because they barely know who those guys are let alone how the NFL was in the 70's, 80's and early-mid 90's

Sigh - old people suck.
I wasn't directing that at you, lol. I was just being sarcastic. Peterson is the best back in the league, bar none. I agree with you, the days of there being 4 or 5 dominant, consistent backs in the league are long gone. The game has changed.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:40 AM   #39
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I'm not faulting Ball, or Elway. He may very well turn into the back Elway thought he would be all along. I'm just stating the fact that it's silly to say he's clearly better than Lacy. Absolutely nothing to base that on, other than his YPC. Which I've already said multiple times why I don't believe that stat means anything in this case.
It doesn't matter if he is better than Lacy or not, what matters is can he be the guy that takes the running game to a true threat that defenses have to account for. His limited play (due to learning curve) last season makes that possibility very promising.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:46 AM   #40
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Its a silly argument in the first place because in 4 more years you will probably be saying Thank you Elway for not drafting lacy when he is out of the league because of his fused toe.

Remember, we liked lacy. More than ball. But lacy has a fused toe and our doctors said in a few years it can rear its ugly head and be a big big problem.

So we take a guy who is slighlty less talented but healthier and will last for years. Or the guy who is a bit better but in a few years can potentially be out of the league.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:51 AM   #41
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Its a silly argument in the first place because in 4 more years you will probably be saying Thank you Elway for not drafting lacy when he is out of the league because of his fused toe.

Remember, we liked lacy. More than ball. But lacy has a fused toe and our doctors said in a few years it can rear its ugly head and be a big big problem.

So we take a guy who is slighlty less talented but healthier and will last for years. Or the guy who is a bit better but in a few years can potentially be out of the league.
This.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:52 AM   #42
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Haven't you heard? Ball is far superior to Lacy. His 120 carries last year proved that without a shadow of a doubt.
Never said Ball is superior but some of you act like Lacy is jesus and is the best RB in the league.

He's very good but you also have to factor that he started right away.

He probably wouldnt on Den even with Moreno.

Ball finished the season really well.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:54 AM   #43
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Its a silly argument in the first place because in 4 more years you will probably be saying Thank you Elway for not drafting lacy when he is out of the league because of his fused toe.

Remember, we liked lacy. More than ball. But lacy has a fused toe and our doctors said in a few years it can rear its ugly head and be a big big problem.

So we take a guy who is slighlty less talented but healthier and will last for years. Or the guy who is a bit better but in a few years can potentially be out of the league.
But no one knows for certain any of that will happen. He may never have a problem with that toe again. I'm in the group that wish we had taken Lacy, while some were happy with Ball. As baja said, at this point it doesn't matter who is better. We have Ball, and hopefully he will be the guy for us for years to come. I was just stating the reasons why I preferred Lacy over Ball to the people who were questioning why.
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:56 AM   #44
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Never said Ball is superior but some of you act like Lacy is jesus and is the best RB in the league.

He's very good but you also have to factor that he started right away.

He probably wouldnt on Den even with Moreno.

Ball finished the season really well.
Lacy is far from the best back in the league.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:59 PM   #45
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My wish is Webster have a breakout season. We need that the most.
I think the addition of Ward and Talib will help Webster immensely. I loved the way Webster looked as a rookie last year, he often had great position but just couldn't find the ball to make a play on it. I think that will improve into his second year, and having Ward backing him up will allow him to use his size to disrupt WRs in the 5 yard window.

I think Webster can play a similar style to Talib, and I think that he can learn more from a guy like Talib than he can from DRC and Champ who are more pure coverage guys.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:07 PM   #46
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I think the addition of Ward and Talib will help Webster immensely. I loved the way Webster looked as a rookie last year, he often had great position but just couldn't find the ball to make a play on it. I think that will improve into his second year, and having Ward backing him up will allow him to use his size to disrupt WRs in the 5 yard window.

I think Webster can play a similar style to Talib, and I think that he can learn more from a guy like Talib than he can from DRC and Champ who are more pure coverage guys.
If he does we will have one of the best secondaries in the league and with the addition of Ware and all our injured players back we should have a top 5 defense.

Webster's emergence is of huge importance.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:08 PM   #47
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Ball had 120 carries. The reason his YPC was so high was because of his lack of touches. If he had been getting a full workload, it would have dropped. So no, it actually doesn't mean much, at all. How can you justifiably say a guy who had 120 touches the whole season, is better than a guy who was named the offensive rookie of the year in the NFL? The Packers haven't had an effective running game in years, he came in and changed that immediately.
I don't really understand this argument in this particular instance. Maybe if he had less than 100 carries I might buy into it dropping but I think the sample size is big enough to draw a reasonable conclusions other than his YPC automatically dropping. There were plenty of things he improved along the way as referenced by his improved production from the start of the season to the end.

One could argue that his YPC will go up just as effectively as the it going down. There are loads of players who's YPC got higher as the game went on.

I think the comparison to Lacy can be explained pretty simply- his lack of carries.

Even if you buy into the theory that Balls YPC will go down, given the same amount of touches he would have easily been on pace for over 1K.

284 touches at 4.7= 1334 yards Heck, even if you drop half a yard off of Balls YPC he would still come out ahead over Lacy.

Add in that he had the second highest YPC and YAC the second half of the season I think we may have something here....

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Old 04-10-2014, 02:09 PM   #48
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If he does we will have one of the best secondaries in the league and with the addition of Ware and all our injured players back we should have a top 5 defense.

Webster's emergence is of huge importance.
I liked what I saw out of Webster last year. I think we gave him more than he could handle at times but he seems to fit the more physical style of play CB's are using these days.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:17 PM   #49
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I liked what I saw out of Webster last year. I think we gave him more than he could handle at times but he seems to fit the more physical style of play CB's are using these days.
Remember at the 'Sky is falling' reactions to the pick.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:19 PM   #50
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Webster was better than expected last year for me.
I expect rookie CB's to be lost and wide eyed in coverage. He was that but he flashed ability at times and was pretty solid in tackling.
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