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Old 04-09-2014, 07:12 PM   #101
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Cap room can be made. It all depends on how much cap room and whether CJ2k wants to play for a winner or the Jets.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:14 PM   #102
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We don't have the cap. The end.
Not at his $8M salary but any scenario he comes to the Broncos in would be greatly reduced. We have the cap for a small hit even outside Tame and Dressen. That being said Dressen is likely gone.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:48 PM   #103
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We don't have the cap. The end.
Yes we do, Manning can restructure(though we won't ask him to), Tamme or Dreessen or both can be cut and various other things could happen to make room.

We however most likely will not simply make room as he is not a top must have guy.
We had to have Manning, Ward, Ware, Sanders. We don't have to have CJ2K.
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:34 PM   #104
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I'd probably rather the Broncos let Ball roll. People on this board saying he is better then lacy? If so he needs 20 carries a game and all the Broncos need is a bkup.

Maybe we would be better off drafting a gaurd, drafting a running back, and forget FA for the rest of this year. You can only make so many moves.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:21 AM   #105
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I really don't understand the Lacy love. Maybe you guys watch sportscenter more than I do.

Lacy had 4 games averaging 5.0 ypc or more. Ball had 6.

Better yet, Lacy had 8 games where he averaged less than 4.0 YPC. Ball had 5

(I don't count games where they had less than 4 carries)

I'm seriously dumbfounded...were you guys watching Montee Ball run at all at the end of last season?

Did you see him run against San Diego in the playoffs?
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:46 AM   #106
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http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/09/2014-fr...erested-teams/

Per a league source, Johnson will not be engaging in private tryouts for anyone. The thinking is that he has generated six years of game film, and he’s a proven commodity. Either a team wants him, or a team doesn’t. There’s no need for Johnson to go run and cut and jump and do whatever a team may want to see him do before offering him a contract.
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:49 AM   #107
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http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/09/2014-fr...erested-teams/

Per a league source, Johnson will not be engaging in private tryouts for anyone. The thinking is that he has generated six years of game film, and he’s a proven commodity. Either a team wants him, or a team doesn’t. There’s no need for Johnson to go run and cut and jump and do whatever a team may want to see him do before offering him a contract.
I think he should have his own Pro Day wherever he wants. Have some people with timers. The only thing the coaches need to know is what is his 40 time. How much speed has he lost?
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Old 04-10-2014, 07:50 AM   #108
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I really don't understand the Lacy love. Maybe you guys watch sportscenter more than I do.

Lacy had 4 games averaging 5.0 ypc or more. Ball had 6.

Better yet, Lacy had 8 games where he averaged less than 4.0 YPC. Ball had 5

(I don't count games where they had less than 4 carries)

I'm seriously dumbfounded...were you guys watching Montee Ball run at all at the end of last season?

Did you see him run against San Diego in the playoffs?
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/fantas...--fantasy.html

Montee Ball, Den, RB
Early ADP: 19.5 (RB13)
Fawned over by zealots in early drafts last year, Ball failed to measure up compared to fellow RB rookies Le'Veon Bell and Eddie Lacy. A persistent fumbling problem and pass-blocking issue stunted his statistical growth, leading veteran Knowhon Moreno to command the lion's share of touches in Denver's backfield. Though the latter can't be disproved, the former beliefs certainly can. Ball did struggle to secure the rock early in the season, coughing up the ball twice on 31 attempts. However, over his next 110 touches he put the ball on the ground only once. As for his alleged strawman approach versus the blitz ... well ... he actually ranked AHEAD of Moreno according to Pro Football Focus' blocking metrics. Now with Knowshon wading in the statistical swamp of South Florida, Ball is about to become the main man in the Mile High City. A powerful downhill runner with plus hands and an affinity for frog costumes, he stands to make the biggest leap of any fantasy back this fall. C.J. Anderson and Ronnie Hillman are sure to occasionally spell him, but roughly 18-20 touches per game, including most if not all goal-line totes, are in his near future. Against thin fronts – thanks Peyton Manning – he could easily total 1,300-1,500 combined yards with 10-12 touchdowns. A borderline top-five campaign is on the horizon.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:08 AM   #109
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I've been beating the Ball drum here for a few now if for no other reason than it's clear Elway wants him to be the solution. I would tend to agree and am expecting a monster year from Ball. I think he tops Morenos last year in everything except maybe receiving yards.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:56 AM   #110
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I really don't understand the Lacy love. Maybe you guys watch sportscenter more than I do.

Lacy had 4 games averaging 5.0 ypc or more. Ball had 6.

Better yet, Lacy had 8 games where he averaged less than 4.0 YPC. Ball had 5

(I don't count games where they had less than 4 carries)

I'm seriously dumbfounded...were you guys watching Montee Ball run at all at the end of last season?

Did you see him run against San Diego in the playoffs?
You obviously didn't watch Lacy play much because you wouldn't not be comparing them after last season if you had. I don't care what the yardage was, Lacy was playing with Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn. He brings a physical presence to run over people that Ball will never have. He had a bunch of signature players. Talent wise it's not even close. Lacy is bigger, faster and has more natural running ability.

Ball will be productive. He'll have alot of yards. He'll make some plays just by the opportunity he's getting. But he'll never have Lacy's physical gifts. And he sure as hell didn't flash the type of star potential did after last season. Long term, who knows.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:15 AM   #111
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You obviously didn't watch Lacy play much because you wouldn't not be comparing them after last season if you had. I don't care what the yardage was, Lacy was playing with Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn. He brings a physical presence to run over people that Ball will never have. He had a bunch of signature players. Talent wise it's not even close. Lacy is bigger, faster and has more natural running ability.

Ball will be productive. He'll have alot of yards. He'll make some plays just by the opportunity he's getting. But he'll never have Lacy's physical gifts. And he sure as hell didn't flash the type of star potential did after last season. Long term, who knows.
I'll be more clear - I don't get the Lacy love in comparison to Montee Ball. And why are you bringing up Matt Flynn like he can't run that offense? I watched the Packers play last season, I saw Lacy run. He's an extremely physical and willed runner.

However, you're making up bull****. Lacy is bigger than Ball. But where do you get that he's faster?

Lacy
40 yard - 4.64
10 yard split - 1.65
20 yard split - 2.65
3 cone - 7.33


Montee Ball
40 yard - 4.66
10 yard split - 1.61
20 yard - 2.59
3 cone - 6.88

Montee ball runs with better vision than Lacy. He runs smarter than Lacy and explodes through seams and holes. Lacy can be a reckless runner.

Montee Ball didn't flash star potential?

I guess we just all disregard the fact that Lacy he spent half the season averaging less than 4 yards a carry - and if you want to include the playoffs he averaged less than 4 in his single game there too.

When Montee Ball leads the NFL in YPC for the last 6 games of the season, I guess we disregard that too. When Montee Ball is 7th in the NFL in YPC, we'll just disregard that too.

The difference you and others portray in Ball and Lacy is highly exaggerated.

Last edited by Action; 04-10-2014 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:17 AM   #112
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Bringing in Johnson only gives the Broncos more OPTIONS in the run game, and excellent depth if Ball goes down. He does have the home run threat speed, that we have lacked. Supposedly Hillman was to be that guy, but has not showed it.

Unfortunately , Peyton Manning likes to throw the ball more than run it.
Until and unless Denvers Offense gets more of a run oriented attack, and Our O-line gets stronger and beefier, Johnson will have the same problems our other backs do....getting hit in the backfield more often than not, on short yardage plays.

Denver has been particularly bad running to the weak side ( left), and that was also true when Clady was in the game. Clady is a superb pass blocker, but only average at run blocking. And coming back off his injury, he is now an unknown, despite any reports from our medical staff that he is "fine". I don't have particular confidence in the Broncos medical staff. Kuper and Walton were also "fine" going into camp last year.

The point is that the Offensive scheme we have been using is going to have to change to make the run game more effective. We don't ever use two back sets, and have relied on the pistol formation too much. It worked because Manning is so effective at finding his targets quickly which keeps the defense honest, but we NEVER had a real power run game, which is what we need to beat defenses like Seattles, or grind out tough yards.

Denver FO has said that they want to be more effective running. Bringing in Johnson would give us a great option in the current scheme, but would require
us to cut someone to free up cap space for him. Tamme and Dreesen are the most obvious choices, but that means that we need a good blocking Tight end to replace them. I guess Mannings contract could be reworked, but that leaves us with dead money down the line, which is not how the FO has been working deals. Especially with all the players going into contract years next year.

I will be surprised if we sign CJ. If we do, IMO, our offensive scheme stays pretty much unchanged and Ball and Johnson will split carries. Not cost effective unless CJ comes in really cheap.

With the changes the staff is making to the O-line, and the draft coming up, plus the cap situation, it is probably a long shot.

On the other hand Elway knows what got him the two super bowl wins. A dominant run game with a superb back. If he feels that Johnson is that back
( and Not Ball) then CJ may be brought in. My bet is that he doesn't see CJ as that back.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:29 AM   #113
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http://nfl.si.com/2014/04/09/2014-fr...erested-teams/

Per a league source, Johnson will not be engaging in private tryouts for anyone. The thinking is that he has generated six years of game film, and he’s a proven commodity. Either a team wants him, or a team doesn’t. There’s no need for Johnson to go run and cut and jump and do whatever a team may want to see him do before offering him a contract.
Why would he want to show off his diminish in skills. A speed back losing his speed.
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Old 04-10-2014, 09:39 AM   #114
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I'll be more clear - I don't get the Lacy love in comparison to Montee Ball. And why are you bringing up Matt Flynn like he can't run that offense? I watched the Packers play last season, I saw Lacy run. He's an extremely physical and willed runner.

However, you're making up bull****. Lacy is bigger than Ball. But where do you get that he's faster?

Lacy
40 yard - 4.64
10 yard split - 1.65
20 yard split - 2.65
3 cone - 7.33


Montee Ball
40 yard - 4.66
10 yard split - 1.61
20 yard - 2.59
3 cone - 6.88

Montee ball runs with better vision than Lacy. He runs smarter than Lacy and explodes through seams and holes. Lacy can be a reckless runner.

Montee Ball didn't flash star potential?

I guess we just all disregard the fact that Lacy he spent half the season averaging less than 4 yards a carry - and if you want to include the playoffs he averaged less than 4 in his single game there too.

When Montee Ball leads the NFL in YPC for the last 6 games of the season, I guess we disregard that too. When Montee Ball is 7th in the NFL in YPC, we'll just disregard that too.

The difference you and others portray in Ball and Lacy is highly exaggerated.
You back up you case as well as anyone here - Rep for this post
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:50 PM   #115
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You obviously didn't watch Lacy play much because you wouldn't not be comparing them after last season if you had. I don't care what the yardage was, Lacy was playing with Scott Tolzien and Matt Flynn. He brings a physical presence to run over people that Ball will never have. He had a bunch of signature players. Talent wise it's not even close. Lacy is bigger, faster and has more natural running ability.

Ball will be productive. He'll have alot of yards. He'll make some plays just by the opportunity he's getting. But he'll never have Lacy's physical gifts. And he sure as hell didn't flash the type of star potential did after last season. Long term, who knows.
You put Ball in the same situation as Lacy last year and I'd bet you would have a pretty similar rookie campaign. Whereas Lacy might be a little more of a bulldozer, Ball has more wiggle.

I would also argue that Ball didn't flash star potential last year in the 2nd half of the season. He was pretty damn good and numbers like YPC and YAC back that up.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:17 PM   #116
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You put Ball in the same situation as Lacy last year and I'd bet you would have a pretty simular campaign. Whereas Lacy might be a little more of a bulldozer, Ball has more wiggle.

I would also argue that Ball didn't flash star potential last year in the 2nd half of the season. He was pretty damn good and numbers like YPC and YAC back that up.
Lacy was running with a guy that was on three different rosters in 2013 playing QB. How anyone can look at Lacy's production during that span and doubt his abilities is beyond me. Also liking what Lacy did with GB last year doesn't mean Ball sucked. How anyone can draw that conclusion is silly.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:21 PM   #117
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Lacy was running with a guy that was on three different rosters in 2013 playing QB. How anyone can look at Lacy's production during that span and doubt his abilities is beyond me. Also liking what Lacy did with GB last year doesn't mean Ball sucked. How anyone can draw that conclusion is silly.
WTF does the QB have to do with how well he was running the ball?
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:24 PM   #118
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WTF does the QB have to do with how well he was running the ball?
Seriously
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:30 PM   #119
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WTF does the QB have to do with how well he was running the ball?
D would key on running game, of course.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:32 PM   #120
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Sheesh I totally mis-read that. My bad.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:32 PM   #121
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Lacy was running with a guy that was on three different rosters in 2013 playing QB. How anyone can look at Lacy's production during that span and doubt his abilities is beyond me. Also liking what Lacy did with GB last year doesn't mean Ball sucked. How anyone can draw that conclusion is silly.
I don't know, maybe because of statements like these - "Talent wise it's not even close"

Call me crazy

For the record, I'm not doubting or hating on Lacy but I think some are severely underrating Ball when he has shown nothing but improvement and got better as the season went on.

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Old 04-10-2014, 01:37 PM   #122
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WTF does the QB have to do with how well he was running the ball?
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:44 PM   #123
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Lacy was running with a guy that was on three different rosters in 2013 playing QB. How anyone can look at Lacy's production during that span and doubt his abilities is beyond me. Also liking what Lacy did with GB last year doesn't mean Ball sucked. How anyone can draw that conclusion is silly.
Thank you.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:50 PM   #124
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I don't know, maybe because of statements like these - "Talent wise it's not even close"

Call me crazy

For the record, I'm not doubting or hating on Lacy but I think some are severely underrating Ball when he has shown nothing but improvement and got better as the season went on.
I never made such a claim but I tend to think Lacy is a better receiving back then Ball is at this point in their careers.

Also I agree that he got better as the season went on and showed good promise but, I tend to think that should be expected from a player fresher then the rest of the NFL.

I do however have my doubts Ball would have had the same production as Lacy did with Matt Flynn as the QB or whoever else was the QB during that span.
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:04 PM   #125
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I never made such a claim but I tend to think Lacy is a better receiving back then Ball is at this point in their careers.

Also I agree that he got better as the season went on and showed good promise but, I tend to think that should be expected from a player fresher then the rest of the NFL.

I do however have my doubts Ball would have had the same production as Lacy did with Matt Flynn as the QB or whoever else was the QB during that span.
It wasn't you, just the post I was originally responding to.

I would agree with you regarding the Lacys receiving skills but I'm not buying into him being that much fresher. One of the common things you'll hear from rookies about the transition to the NFL is how much longer the season is and how they tend to where down sooner than vets. I tend to think they would negate each other somewhat towards the end of the year.

There's no way to know how Ball would have done in the same situation but at least this year we should have a better comparison because they will both get a lot of carries.
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