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Old 03-30-2014, 01:15 AM   #1
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Default So it's a full season later - what was the effect of losing Doom for 8 mil a year?

They got a respectable season out of Philips for 1 mil. and ended up with Ware for 10 mil a year.

Did we get hurt by losing Doom?
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:28 AM   #2
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At this point certainly not. Ware has always been better than Doom and still is; by a wife margin. Last year, it felt like we missed him more than we probably really did because of Miller's "down" season.

If Miller played all of last season and to the standard we were all expecting we wouldn't have even noticed Doom was gone and Phillips likely would have equaled Doom's projected production.

That's last season. This season, I'd take Ware over Doom - even at a higher pay rate - every time.
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:38 AM   #3
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Won't know until a few years - but based on this past season it wouldn't have made a difference.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:31 AM   #4
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No one knows. The obvious answer is that we did not miss him but maybe we win the SB with him on the defense. Maybe in the first quarter he sacks Russell and forces a fumble which is returned for a TD...... change the whole outcome of the game.


I disagree with this thread.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:39 AM   #5
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No one knows. The obvious answer is that we did not miss him but maybe we win the SB with him on the defense. Maybe in the first quarter he sacks Russell and forces a fumble which is returned for a TD...... change the whole outcome of the game.


I disagree with this thread.
Also imagine we never cut McGhee. Next Denver possession Manning hands off to Willis but is met by Chancellor in the backfield who he stiff arms and tears off his facemask and takes it to the house, 80 yards.

Im going to cry myself to sleep now.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:44 AM   #6
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They got a respectable season out of Philips for 1 mil. and ended up with Ware for 10 mil a year.

Did we get hurt by losing Doom?
Time to move on. There's no real way you can say one way or the other. We'll have a healthy Miller and Ware come regular season game 1 so I'm more then fine with that, in addition to the other FA's we got. I think this defense will be improved.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:58 AM   #7
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Half the board thought it was a big loss the other half thought they could replace his play or at least his sack numbers just wondering how people see it today.
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:06 AM   #8
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Half the board thought it was a big loss the other half thought they could replace his play or at least his sack numbers just wondering how people see it today.
A part of me is glad he signed with Baltimore and they stunk. Not to mention we destroyed them in the opener. But with Von's off the field issues and injury he would've helped a lot.

How much better could we be though? 13-3, Super Bowl. He is the type of player a team must game-plan against. Giving our defense that pass rush we needed against Seattle.
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:49 AM   #9
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If he had played for us would have torn his triceps week 7 and missed the rest of the season
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:52 AM   #10
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A part of me is glad he signed with Baltimore and they stunk. Not to mention we destroyed them in the opener. But with Von's off the field issues and injury he would've helped a lot.

How much better could we be though? 13-3, Super Bowl. He is the type of player a team must game-plan against. Giving our defense that pass rush we needed against Seattle.
I think Elway regrets loosing Doom's leadership. John knows he slipped up on the handling of that one but I bet it never happens again. Elway is going to end up being one hell of a football man before it's all said and done.
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:53 AM   #11
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If he had played for us would have torn his triceps week 7 and missed the rest of the season
That's funny. I had that same thought when I knew he was gone.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:20 AM   #12
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I think Elway regrets loosing Doom's leadership. John knows he slipped up on the handling of that one but I bet it never happens again. Elway is going to end up being one hell of a football man before it's all said and done.
I still think Dumervil and his agent tried to pull a fast one on the Broncos (an overt attempt to avoid taking a pay cut by intentionally missing a deadline) and Elway did what he had to do when the signature was not on the dotted line when it should have been. The "fax at Kinko's" story never made any sense whatsoever to me with the technology available today. And then damage control and/or butthurt took over and Dumervil wanted to sign with any other team (Would other Broncos players have bought the Kinko's fax-failure explanation? I'm not certain they would have.)

Ultimately, Dumervil took the easy out, placing all of the blame on his (quickly-fired) agent and "getting out of Dodge" to avoid any possibly-uncomfortable questions from his now-former teammates.

I absolutely do not place any blame on Elway -- he didn't want to cut Dumervil but football's a business so he did what he had to do. Otherwise the Broncos would have been stuck with overpaying Dumervil and team management absolutely cannot afford to set a precedent like that -- or to appear weak and vulnerable to that type of subterfuge.

If Dumervil had truly been bargaining in good faith with the team, then it shouldn't have come down to a "last few seconds ticking off the clock while the team's waiting for a fax" situation. It absolutely did not have to come down to a last-minute thing or lame, unbelievable "explanations". The simplest explanation is he tried to hose the team we love. Rot in Baltimore, Elvis.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:20 AM   #13
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I still think Dumervil and his agent tried to pull a fast one on the Broncos (an overt attempt to avoid taking a pay cut by intentionally missing a deadline) and Elway did what he had to do when the signature was not on the dotted line when it should have been. The "fax at Kinko's" story never made any sense whatsoever to me with the technology available today. And then damage control and/or butthurt took over and Dumervil wanted to sign with any other team (Would other Broncos players have bought the Kinko's fax-failure explanation? I'm not certain they would have.)

Ultimately, Dumervil took the easy out, placing all of the blame on his (quickly-fired) agent and "getting out of Dodge" to avoid any possibly-uncomfortable questions from his now-former teammates.

I absolutely do not place any blame on Elway -- he didn't want to cut Dumervil but football's a business so he did what he had to do. Otherwise the Broncos would have been stuck with overpaying Dumervil and team management absolutely cannot afford to set a precedent like that -- or to appear weak and vulnerable to that type of subterfuge.

If Dumervil had truly been bargaining in good faith with the team, then it shouldn't have come down to a "last few seconds ticking off the clock while the team's waiting for a fax" situation. It absolutely did not have to come down to a last-minute thing or lame, unbelievable "explanations". The simplest explanation is he tried to hose the team we love. Rot in Baltimore, Elvis.
It wasn't a negotiation. Elway told Dumervil and his agent flat out that hey could take the reduced salary or he would be fired before his guarantee kicked in. Dumervil said he wouldn't do it and that was that. I am guessing as free agency didn't result in huge contracts to some of the defensive ends on the market and several teams had already used up their cap space the potential for a big contract dwindled and Dumervil and his agent audibled and said they would take a reduced deal. Elway sent a contract proposal, Dumervil didn't like it and wanted changes, Elway sent a revised copy that Dumervil didn't get back in time so Elway had to cut him to prevent the original bonus from coming due.

I think the loss did hurt the team last season. Dumervil is a better player than Philips and I think he would have been more productive all around than Philips was. I do think moving into the coming season that having Ware is better than Dumervil, and it is worth remembering that Dumervil had he accepted the changed contract last season would probably still be cut this season or faced with another restructure.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:22 AM   #14
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Ware gives us the leadership we need on defense. Vocal leader. Backs it up on and off the field.
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:52 AM   #15
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No one knows. The obvious answer is that we did not miss him but maybe we win the SB with him on the defense. Maybe in the first quarter he sacks Russell and forces a fumble which is returned for a TD...... change the whole outcome of the game.


I disagree with this thread.


I hate hypothetical questions. If this had happened or had that happened the outcome would have been different. The outcome is what it was. Doom is gone and it doesn't matter now. The only things we can make note of are Phillips filled in well last season and most if not all of us would rather have Ware instead.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:00 AM   #16
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I still think Dumervil and his agent tried to pull a fast one on the Broncos (an overt attempt to avoid taking a pay cut by intentionally missing a deadline) and Elway did what he had to do when the signature was not on the dotted line when it should have been. The "fax at Kinko's" story never made any sense whatsoever to me with the technology available today. And then damage control and/or butthurt took over and Dumervil wanted to sign with any other team (Would other Broncos players have bought the Kinko's fax-failure explanation? I'm not certain they would have.)

Ultimately, Dumervil took the easy out, placing all of the blame on his (quickly-fired) agent and "getting out of Dodge" to avoid any possibly-uncomfortable questions from his now-former teammates.

I absolutely do not place any blame on Elway -- he didn't want to cut Dumervil but football's a business so he did what he had to do. Otherwise the Broncos would have been stuck with overpaying Dumervil and team management absolutely cannot afford to set a precedent like that -- or to appear weak and vulnerable to that type of subterfuge.

If Dumervil had truly been bargaining in good faith with the team, then it shouldn't have come down to a "last few seconds ticking off the clock while the team's waiting for a fax" situation. It absolutely did not have to come down to a last-minute thing or lame, unbelievable "explanations". The simplest explanation is he tried to hose the team we love. Rot in Baltimore, Elvis.
Exactly. That contract he had was ridiculous and I commend Elway for not allowing it to continue. The fact Dumervil is no longer on the team lies at the feet of Dumervil. Have to wonder why he only started 3 games in Baltimore this past season but in the end I'm just glad his contract is not clogging up the team. I could care less if he's on the Broncos. We've moved on.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:07 AM   #17
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I dont think missing Dumervil was as much of an issue as missing Von. Hopefully we see the 2012 version back next season. Pair that with Ware, Knighton, a returning Wolfe and Williams with another year under his belt could be something special.
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Old 03-30-2014, 07:09 AM   #18
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I'm trying to fax in my answer, but this damn thing won't work.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:30 AM   #19
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If Ware rebounds from his slump last season and Von recovers from whatever last year was. This could be one of the best pass rushing duos ever. Can anybody reference me past teams with a combo like this?
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:32 AM   #20
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Doom was replaced by Phillips who took less money and had a better year. Denver also went to the Super Bowl.

Advantage Denver.
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Old 03-30-2014, 09:44 AM   #21
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For last season, I prefer the production we got from Phillips and his $1 million salary than paying Doom $8 million.

For the future? That is a different story. I mean, we have Ware this season. But how many years can he play, and is he still an All Pro? That is a legit question, however I think Ware will perform well as only a couple years ago he had 11.5 sacks and 5 forced fumbles, and in 2011 he had 19.5 sacks.

With a healthy Von, those two will wreck havoc because I think we got solid DT's also to help push the pocket inside.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:32 AM   #22
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If Ware rebounds from his slump last season and Von recovers from whatever last year was. This could be one of the best pass rushing duos ever. Can anybody reference me past teams with a combo like this?
Thomas and Neil Smith. They were pretty devastating on the field together. There are others, I just cant think of them.


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Old 03-30-2014, 10:46 AM   #23
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I remember hearing last year that Dumervil had the wrong fax number. Not that he couldn't get it to work. He just kept faxing to the wrong number.

Super glad Elway had the mojo to acquire Ware, who's one of the only RDE's better than Dumervil. Having the ability to pressure in crunch time is crucial.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:51 AM   #24
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I still think Dumervil and his agent tried to pull a fast one on the Broncos (an overt attempt to avoid taking a pay cut by intentionally missing a deadline) and Elway did what he had to do when the signature was not on the dotted line when it should have been. The "fax at Kinko's" story never made any sense whatsoever to me with the technology available today. And then damage control and/or butthurt took over and Dumervil wanted to sign with any other team (Would other Broncos players have bought the Kinko's fax-failure explanation? I'm not certain they would have.)

Ultimately, Dumervil took the easy out, placing all of the blame on his (quickly-fired) agent and "getting out of Dodge" to avoid any possibly-uncomfortable questions from his now-former teammates.

I absolutely do not place any blame on Elway -- he didn't want to cut Dumervil but football's a business so he did what he had to do. Otherwise the Broncos would have been stuck with overpaying Dumervil and team management absolutely cannot afford to set a precedent like that -- or to appear weak and vulnerable to that type of subterfuge.

If Dumervil had truly been bargaining in good faith with the team, then it shouldn't have come down to a "last few seconds ticking off the clock while the team's waiting for a fax" situation. It absolutely did not have to come down to a last-minute thing or lame, unbelievable "explanations". The simplest explanation is he tried to hose the team we love. Rot in Baltimore, Elvis.
I should clarify. The only mistake Elway made is he let himself get handcuffed by letting it go the the deadline thus forcing the release of Doom. I bet next time he will tell the players agent that he will release the player 2 days before the existing activation date if a new contract is not signed, that gives Elway the time advantage/cushion instead of the other way around.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:53 AM   #25
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I remember hearing last year that Dumervil had the wrong fax number. Not that he couldn't get it to work. He just kept faxing to the wrong number.

Super glad Elway had the mojo to acquire Ware, who's one of the only RDE's better than Dumervil. Having the ability to pressure in crunch time is crucial.
If that is the case wonder why he did not sign the second offer instead of signing with Bmore.
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