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Old 03-31-2014, 11:03 AM   #76
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http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...-theyve-become
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:15 AM   #77
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That entire article is nonsense.
Every time a team phases out the importance of the RB they go right back to it once the QB gets his brains beaten in.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:25 AM   #78
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This front office has always shown foresight. Elway isn't going to bank on Ball without some kind of quality back-up, and by that I don't mean Anderson and/or Hillman. I expect developments at RB right up to, and into training camp.
I'm not so convinced that we don't have are trio right there. I do agree that we need to add another back or two but we only carried three on the active roster last year.

I believe that Elway intended for Ball to be the man last year but the combination of Ball picking up the playbook slowly and Moreno running his heart out in a contract year led to Moreno starting.

It should be interesting to see what they do because while I like Ball we don't really have anyone proven if he goes down. I like what I've seen out of Anderson so far but he's still pretty green.

As for Hillman, I don't know what to think of him other than if he can't hang onto the ball he won't see the field. He hasn't really developed into the change of pace back he was expected to be.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:26 AM   #79
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If there's an increased commitment to the run, Ball will run for 1500 yards. We are fine at RB.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:30 AM   #80
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We have running backs, we don't have a running game...
So, as sad as it sounds we need to add somebody that will elevate our running game to a threat level, right now our running game is not near to a respectable level...
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:31 AM   #81
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I know John Elway and Coach Fox and all of the staff know a great deal more than I do about all of this and letting Moreno go on balance is not the end of the world. Seeing that the interest in him was tepid at best says something about the value of running backs these days or about Moreno or both. If things go great next season it's a brilliant move among a bunch of brilliant moves. If the go south would anyone point to Moreno being gone as the keystone that held it all together? I mean it's not like it's the Ravens letting Anquan Boldin go I think. I hope. All those coaches and front office people at Baltimore sure know more football than I do but letting Boldin go seemed unwise at the time. I thought Moreno was blocking and running better than those other guys and unless there's a rabbit in a hat I don't know about I don't think it was the smartest move to let him go especially considering how much he ended up costing the Dolphins for a year. I guess we'll find out come Draft time and by training camp time.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:37 AM   #82
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The thought about taking another RB in the first 3 rounds makes me angry. Why?

Why when we don't know who our starting LG is right now. We need more depth on the OL, we don't have a MLB right now, so maybe draft one of those, we need Secondary depth and honestly, WR depth because I doubt we resign Welker after this season and then we would be left with Demaryius, Sanders and Caldwell.

Ball looked extremely impressive late in the year. He runs hard and has solid vision. He had a couple fumbles last year, but he never had problems at Wisconsin I believe. That is something that can be worked on. If Hillman gets his **** together, he would be a decent change of pace back, and CJ well who knows really with him.
The thought about taking a specific position at a specific round of the draft makes me mad. It should be a BPA draft across the board, especially in the higher rounds. Reaching for "need" in the draft is where you get burned. Just ask kFc.
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:18 PM   #83
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I'm not so convinced that we don't have are trio right there. I do agree that we need to add another back or two but we only carried three on the active roster last year.

I believe that Elway intended for Ball to be the man last year but the combination of Ball picking up the playbook slowly and Moreno running his heart out in a contract year led to Moreno starting.

It should be interesting to see what they do because while I like Ball we don't really have anyone proven if he goes down. I like what I've seen out of Anderson so far but he's still pretty green.

As for Hillman, I don't know what to think of him other than if he can't hang onto the ball he won't see the field. He hasn't really developed into the change of pace back he was expected to be.
What the hell are you talking about? Picking up the playbook slowly?
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Old 03-31-2014, 02:49 PM   #84
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Ball made strides in the 2nd half of the season that took Knowshown 4 years to make. Gotta like Ball going into '14. What did he average over 5.5 a carry the 2nd half of the season?



Hillman has skills, someone will pcik him up if cut, and if he turns it around Elway wouldn't be too happy. I expect Hillam to be on the squad in '14
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:17 PM   #85
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I don't know if you are old enough to remember either to make such a statement. The name misspelling is certainly an indicator.

I can't state much about Lou Sabin except he was an improvement over previous head coaches. When people within the organization at that time are asked about his impact to the Broncos. They always give him credit for raising the level of professionalism within the organization. Jack Kemp was highly complimentary of Sabin as a teacher, organizer and that he did not let the opinions of fans or media deter him. Sabin won two AFL championships with Buffalo. Unfortunately, Sabin will always be remembered by his time in Denver for the "half a loaf" game vs the Dolphins at Mile High where he chose to kick a field goal for a tie rather than go for the win before OT was used in the regular season.

As for John Ralston, I was quite happy the Broncos hired him because he did a very good job with Stanford. While he will always be remembered for the player revolt, led by Lyle Alzado, which ultimately cost him his job. People forget how good he was with the personnel side of the game. When he came to Denver, the team had never had a winning season. He drafted and signed a significant number of very good to great players which set the table for the Denver Broncos becoming a consistent winning football organization. The key members of the 1977 Bronco team were brought in by Ralston. He was a positive key element in making a winning success of the Bronco organization. A very good college coach, a not so great professional coach but by all measurements not a bad coach. When I moved to Colorado in 1971 and became a fan, Ralston brought this organization a long way by 1976.

I think your assertion about these two men are uninformed and rather ignorant. Were they a Dan Reeves or Mike Shanahan. No they were not. Bad. No way.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:15 PM   #86
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What the hell are you talking about? Picking up the playbook slowly?
Yes, picking up the playbook slowly. Monte Ball himself is on record stating how hard it was to fully understand a Peyton Manning led offense. Lots of different responsibilities when it comes to picking up the blitz- a big transition for most runningbacks coming out of college.

You can see the point at which the light bulb came on about midway through the season based upon his production. Went from 3.3 ypc the first half of the season to 5.9 ypc the second half. Also his fumbles stopped about midway through the year as well.

So... yeah.
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:17 PM   #87
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Ball made strides in the 2nd half of the season that took Knowshown 4 years to make. Gotta like Ball going into '14. What did he average over 5.5 a carry the 2nd half of the season?


Hillman has skills, someone will pcik him up if cut, and if he turns it around Elway wouldn't be too happy. I expect Hillam to be on the squad in '14
Agreed. I really don't know what some folks are worried about other than depth.

I don't know what to make of Hillman at this point- he's still really young but entering year 3 is going to be a make or break type of situation IMO.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:35 PM   #88
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Yes, picking up the playbook slowly. Monte Ball himself is on record stating how hard it was to fully understand a Peyton Manning led offense. Lots of different responsibilities when it comes to picking up the blitz- a big transition for most runningbacks coming out of college.

You can see the point at which the light bulb came on about midway through the season based upon his production. Went from 3.3 ypc the first half of the season to 5.9 ypc the second half. Also his fumbles stopped about midway through the year as well.

So... yeah.
My point is, I highly doubt Elway expected Montee to carry the rock to start the season.

To top that off, John Fox heavily favors RBs with experience. I do not know why you would assume anyone would expect a college athlete to come in and be able to pick up an offense with Peyton Manning right off the bat.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:36 PM   #89
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My point is, I highly doubt Elway expected Montee to carry the rock to start the season.

To top that off, John Fox heavily favors RBs with experience. I do not know why you would assume anyone would expect a college athlete to come in and be able to pick up an offense with Peyton Manning right off the bat.
Elway had nothing invested in Moreno since he didn't draft him and was coming off a season in which he was inactive for half of it. He became the starter by default after McGahee went down to injury and later himself in the biggest game of the year. Yeah, I can't think of a single reason why Elway would have wanted the running back he drafted in the 2nd round to become the starter right away.....

Anyway, the point is, the writing was on the wall the day Ball was drafted. And yeah, in my opinion, I think Ball would have been the starter from day 1 if his transition had to the NFL had gone a little smoother.

Quite frankly I think Moreno surprised Elway and company because he stayed mostly healthy all season.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:43 PM   #90
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Elway had nothing invested in Moreno since he didn't draft him and was coming off a season in which he was inactive for half of it. He became the starter by default after McGahee went down to injury and later himself in the biggest game of the year. Yeah, I can't think of a single reason why Elway would have wanted the running back he drafted in the 2nd round to become the starter right away.....

Anyway, the point is, the writing was on the wall the day Ball was drafted. And yeah, in my opinion, I think Ball would have been the starter from day 1 if his transition had to the NFL had gone a little smoother.

Quite frankly I think Moreno surprised Elway and company because he stayed mostly healthy all season.
Your thinking is way off.

You do realize Hillman was going into his 2nd year and starting ALL of TC right? And he just drafted the year before in the 3rd?

You also do realize Moreno got the starting spot on opening day even though he pretty much rested during TC?

On top of all this, you say that Elway has nothing invested in Moreno, when clearly, Moreno is getting PAID by the Denver Broncos? To say he has nothing invested in Moreno because he didn't draft him is just childish and armchair GM status. He's on the roster, and he's getting paid. What other form of investment do you need?

Lastly, it'd be extremely stupid for a GM to expect a rookie RB to get drafted and learn an NFL playbook, including Peyton Manning's with all his signals and audibles, by week 1 of the NFL season...especially in a complex hurry up offense where he can be in pass protection or running the rock at any given moment.

Yeah, you'd have to be a pretty stupid GM to draft an RB and have these expectations of him...especially when you have a 2nd year RB and a veteran RB ahead of him. The chances of Montee picking up the playbook on Hillman/Moreno level were slim to none.

And then take into account Manning's trust factor... your thinking/logic is horribly off.

I bet Elway is extremely happy with Montee's development and he progressed as he should, playing great in the 2nd half of the season.

If you also understood John Fox's tendencies and philosophies, you wouldn't even be typing what you did.

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Old 03-31-2014, 07:53 PM   #91
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Your thinking is way off.

You do realize Hillman was going into his 2nd year and starting ALL of TC right? And he just drafted the year before in the 3rd?

You also do realize Moreno got the starting spot on opening day even though he pretty much rested during TC?

On top of all this, you say that Elway has nothing invested in Moreno, when clearly, Moreno is getting PAID by the Denver Broncos? To say he has nothing invested in Moreno because he didn't draft him is just childish and armchair GM status. He's on the roster, and he's getting paid. What other form of investment do you need?

Lastly, it'd be extremely stupid for a GM to expect a rookie RB to get drafted and learn an NFL playbook, including Peyton Manning's with all his signals and audibles, by week 1 of the NFL season...especially in a complex hurry up offense where he can be in pass protection or running the rock at any given moment.

Yeah, you'd have to be a pretty stupid GM to draft an RB and have these expectations of him...especially when you have a 2nd year RB and a veteran RB ahead of him. The chances of Montee picking up the playbook on Hillman/Moreno level were slim to none.

And then take into account Manning's trust factor... your thinking/logic is horribly off.

I bet Elway is extremely happy with Montee's development and he progressed as he should, playing great in the 2nd half of the season.

If you also understood John Fox's tendencies and philosophies, you wouldn't even be typing what you did.
Like I said earlier, just my opinion. I knew Moreno was as good as gone the second they drafted Ball and that's what has happened.

I think you just like to argue- again just my opinion.
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Old 03-31-2014, 07:57 PM   #92
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Like I said earlier, just my opinion. I knew Moreno was as good as gone the second they drafted Ball and that's what has happened.

I think you just like to argue- again just my opinion.
Not even arguing - I'm just saying it's crazy to think Montee was expected to start day 1 over Moreno and Hillman.

But I couldn't argue () that Moreno would be as good as gone.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:14 PM   #93
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How many people realize Hillman is younger than Ball? Hillman was the youngest player in the league his rookie year. He's still growing into his body, and hopefully the extra meat will allow him to better hold onto the ball. Not saying that he is the answer for our depth problems, but you better believe the front office hasn't given up on him yet (despite what many on here would lead you to believe). I still think he can be a decent change of pace back.

As for the RB position as a whole, I think the only thing you could argue is a weakness is the lack of depth. Montee as the workhorse, Hillman as the change of pace, CJ for depth. If Montee goes down, we would be in trouble. I don't think we will address depth through the draft. We already have three young backs we're trying to develop. It will probably come from a cheap veteran.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:18 PM   #94
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We are ok for now.

Hopefully we can draft the Duke next year.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:26 AM   #95
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I can tell you this, it doesn't matter if we take the best back in the draft this year, if we don't improve the run blocking or change our mindset on how tough this OL should be, it's not going to matter. I'm not saying our guys up front suck at run blocking because they don't. But if we want to win a SB, they WILL have to block better, in both phases of the game, but in particular, run blocking. When a team can just flat out get after your QB, you NEED to be able to hand the ball off and punch them in the mouth. It's great having an offense as dynamic as ours was but such an offense, mostly based on quick passes, if things are perfect, problems can happen real fast. That's why it's so important to be able to simplify things and just have your man whip their man straight up. Not out trick them or out scheme them. You can't always count on that. You have to go out and just beat somebody up sometimes. We NEED that in a bad way on our offense. Let's get it done Elway. I like what you did to the defense in FA, making it better but also more physical. Now let's do the same for our offense via the draft. Let's draft some physical players.
agree 100%


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lots of good info in this thread. I like the idea of drafting a big bruising running back. That would make our defensive front 7 tougher just from practice.

With that said, I also agree with the guys saying OL with first pick. Get a Beast in there.
Best of both worlds go OL early, get RB Isaiah Crowell late --> BEAST


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Old 04-03-2014, 05:28 AM   #96
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We need at least one more RB to pair with Ball, Hillman is not the answer and doesn't deserve a roster spot on this team. I understand we drafted him early but time to cut bait.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:22 AM   #97
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This is Hillman's last shot with the Broncos even at his young age. If he is a healthy inactive on game days halfway though the season, i could see him being released to make a spot of someone else. He'll be halfway through his 3rd season with the same coaching staff. He has to have improved enough to be a contributor on game day to warrant a roster spot.

That said, I hope he clicks this year and its that change of pace guy / scat back / back breaker we need.

I don't care what the RB's name is as long as he's making the positive plays we need when we need them.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:24 AM   #98
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How many people realize Hillman is younger than Ball? Hillman was the youngest player in the league his rookie year. He's still growing into his body, and hopefully the extra meat will allow him to better hold onto the ball. Not saying that he is the answer for our depth problems, but you better believe the front office hasn't given up on him yet (despite what many on here would lead you to believe). I still think he can be a decent change of pace back.

As for the RB position as a whole, I think the only thing you could argue is a weakness is the lack of depth. Montee as the workhorse, Hillman as the change of pace, CJ for depth. If Montee goes down, we would be in trouble. I don't think we will address depth through the draft. We already have three young backs we're trying to develop. It will probably come from a cheap veteran.
Depth IS an issue, and I fully expect that we will draft a RB to create that. We will not draft one in the first or second round, but there are some intriguing guys who will be there in rounds 3-4 , and that's where we will pick one. Then look to UDFAs to build more depth, camp fodder. The Broncos have said they want ( read NEED) to run the ball better next year. Part of that is the O line needs to block better, and part the RBs. Ball will be fine, and CJ and Hillman probably too. But there isn't anyone else and injury is a concern.

A big part of our offense is the formations. Manning doesn't get under center much, which limits the run option too much ( IMO) from the pistol, and the effectiveness of PA. I think this ratio is going to have to change if they are serious about running. And we need to be more physical at the line. As the previous post says....get more physical so we can punch someone in the mouth.
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