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Old 03-27-2014, 05:23 AM   #26
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Some do. Many, many, many do not. There are so many podunk colleges and programs that I can't even count them.

How would it work -- programs like UK just hand big checks to the "one and done" players who stop by on their way to the NBA, because they are the ones people pay to see? And the athletes on scholarship at Middle Western Kentucky State get nothing because, uh oh, no mountains of money pouring in?
Neat. And this is a win for the ability of A SINGLE SCHOOL to organize. Something tells me the kids at Middle Western Kentucky State (safety school) won't be doing likewise, and if they do, it'll show that the school doesn't get anything out of those athletes.

Schools in BCS conferences with huge stadiums make the money. They do. Comparing them to Middle Western Kentucky State does nothing to further your argument.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:40 AM   #27
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The same can be said for Academic scholarships. So not only are we going to pay revenue generating athletes, along with non revenue generators, but academics as well? Good luck with that.

I say pay all revenue generators, be they athletic or academic. But, at the very least, the NCAA should allow a kid to market and profit off of his own likeness. If an art student on a scholarship wants to throw together a couple of oil paintings and sell them for some side money during the summer break it's no big deal. A college athlete films an endorsement for a local dealership and the NCAA completely loses their **** over it. And, more recently, the fact that College baseball players can be drafted but aren't allowed to hire agents to help them determine if they should sign with the team or return for another year at college is complete BS.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:07 AM   #28
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A couple of things:
  • The QB of the team put this together. His name is Kain Colter and he is a Cherry Creek HS alum!
  • This is a private school, so the rules are different for a state school. It will still open the door for several colleges, but it won't necessarily have an immediate domino effect everyone is looking for.
  • This could have bad ramifications on students. If they are looking at fool union pay and benefits, many schools will choose to cancel their football program completely. I either case, the schools will be forced to raise tuition or make cuts to offset the loss of revenue.
  • The ruling is going to be appealed by Northwestern. And I anticipate it going to the high court.
  • Ultimately if it holds, it's probably going to break the college athletics system completely. Which is unfortunate.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:19 AM   #29
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That same business owner, at least back in the day when we required more from our "job creators" than just an office with computers in it, would pay health insurance and retirement for his employees.
Colleges do pay for health insurance. You get hurt on the field, require surgery, the school pays for it, not the player. Your *retirement* in this case is a piece of paper which says you have a degree, should you put in the effort, and that covers you and boosts your income for the rest of your working life. Some athletes with enough foresight even stretch that 5 years window to get a four year degree, into taking graduate school classes which is even more valuable.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:26 AM   #30
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Yeah, this'll be great. The big money schools cutting 7-figure paychecks. The next step down comping perks and cars. And the less lucrative programs flushing themselves down the drain as all the talent follows the money. Unless of course they've got some alumni willing to SMU themselves up to the top.

What could go wrong?
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:49 AM   #31
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Colleges do pay for health insurance. You get hurt on the field, require surgery, the school pays for it, not the player. Your *retirement* in this case is a piece of paper which says you have a degree, should you put in the effort, and that covers you and boosts your income for the rest of your working life. Some athletes with enough foresight even stretch that 5 years window to get a four year degree, into taking graduate school classes which is even more valuable.
It's a lovely, outdated ideal that a college degree is the cure-all for everyone. That's simply not the case any longer.

And yes, taking grad school classes is wonderful. Why not expand that to give them a full advanced degree for all they've given to the school? It's not like these Universities aren't getting anything out of it. That's also one of the things the Northwestern group are asking for.

As for the health insurance, they pay IF YOU GET INJURED WHILE YOU ARE THERE. If you have long-term health complications, you may well be ****ed.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:53 AM   #32
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It's a lovely, outdated ideal that a college degree is the cure-all for everyone. That's simply not the case any longer.

And yes, taking grad school classes is wonderful. Why not expand that to give them a full advanced degree for all they've given to the school? It's not like these Universities aren't getting anything out of it. That's also one of the things the Northwestern group are asking for.

As for the health insurance, they pay IF YOU GET INJURED WHILE YOU ARE THERE. If you have long-term health complications, you may well be ****ed.
I'm not opposed to some of these things in principle, but because of the nature of competition, it needs to be handled at the NCAA level and applied equally to all programs. It can't be done school to school, or the whole system breaks down.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:10 AM   #33
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It's a lovely, outdated ideal that a college degree is the cure-all for everyone. That's simply not the case any longer.

And yes, taking grad school classes is wonderful. Why not expand that to give them a full advanced degree for all they've given to the school? It's not like these Universities aren't getting anything out of it. That's also one of the things the Northwestern group are asking for.

As for the health insurance, they pay IF YOU GET INJURED WHILE YOU ARE THERE. If you have long-term health complications, you may well be ****ed.
You're whining. Life is what you make of it. A college degree doesn't guarantee you anything, just like potential on the field. It's what you do to cultivate yourself that eventually matters. You're absolving the person from all responsibility in this discussion which is stupid and putting it back on the University. The player(s) should not be given a guarantee of advantanced education because they have 5 years to get a 4 year degree. In that 5 years, the college will pay for everything, any class, book, lecture, summer school class you wish to attend. If you are a flake, and lazy, and refuse to go to more than 12 credits per semester which most college players do, then you don't deserve more. If you are driven, say like Peyton Manning, who graduated in 3 years, you can do whatever you want over the following two seasons, ie, graduate school or whatever. Like in life, you get to keep what you earn. If you don't, better luck next time.

Regarding health, they take care of you when you are onsite under their care. Prior to leaving school, they do a post physical on you and ask you about any ailments you have. If you have them, then they are cared for whether that be through rehab, surgery or whatever. Then they have you sign off if you feel the care was adequate. If you don't feel that way, don't sign off on the document. It's as simple as that.

Regarding further care down the road, if you are that concerned about injury or sacrificing your body "only for a degree", then the option is quite simple. Don't play and don't risk injury. Ah, the joys of living in a free country where you can do as you please.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #34
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1. This ruling flies in the face of case law; however, it is made by a director of the NLRB (1 person) not even the full NLRB and they do not value case law like the courts do.
2. This will get appealed to the full NLRB to exhaust the administrative remedies. Then it will get appealed to federal courts. This is years and years from being over.
3. NLRB only governs private "employers" thus, this has very limited reach.
4. Wouldn't be surprised to see Congress get involved and carve out an exception. There is far to much money in College Sports to change the system, but perhaps they could be required to insure players for a number of years if they don't go on to a professional sports career.
5. If this does move and is upheld and they somehow can figure out a way to translate this to public schools the consequences are far more reaching than we can imagine. If the schools are "compensating" these athletes at say 60K a year (School, room, board, books etc...) then the athlete now has to pay taxes on such compensation. They now have to find 10K in cash to pay the IRS?


And down the rabbit hole we go....
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:28 AM   #35
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You're whining. Life is what you make of it. A college degree doesn't guarantee you anything, just like potential on the field. It's what you do to cultivate yourself that eventually matters. You're absolving the person from all responsibility in this discussion which is stupid and putting it back on the University. The player(s) should not be given a guarantee of advantanced education because they have 5 years to get a 4 year degree. In that 5 years, the college will pay for everything, any class, book, lecture, summer school class you wish to attend. If you are a flake, and lazy, and refuse to go to more than 12 credits per semester which most college players do, then you don't deserve more. If you are driven, say like Peyton Manning, who graduated in 3 years, you can do whatever you want over the following two seasons, ie, graduate school or whatever. Like in life, you get to keep what you earn. If you don't, better luck next time.

Regarding health, they take care of you when you are onsite under their care. Prior to leaving school, they do a post physical on you and ask you about any ailments you have. If you have them, then they are cared for whether that be through rehab, surgery or whatever. Then they have you sign off if you feel the care was adequate. If you don't feel that way, don't sign off on the document. It's as simple as that.

Regarding further care down the road, if you are that concerned about injury or sacrificing your body "only for a degree", then the option is quite simple. Don't play and don't risk injury. Ah, the joys of living in a free country where you can do as you please.

Without knowing a ton about this (though I gather they arent looking for high salaries, though it might turn into that), theres a couple things about college football that bother me.

1) they can take away scholarships from injured players.
2) college players dont get paid when their likeness is used (video games..etc..and thats absurd)

Also, i believe there still is a health insurance issue, so im not sure if the idea that "the school pays for everything" is even true.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:29 AM   #36
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1. This ruling flies in the face of case law; however, it is made by a director of the NLRB (1 person) not even the full NLRB and they do not value case law like the courts do.
2. This will get appealed to the full NLRB to exhaust the administrative remedies. Then it will get appealed to federal courts. This is years and years from being over.
3. NLRB only governs private "employers" thus, this has very limited reach.
4. Wouldn't be surprised to see Congress get involved and carve out an exception. There is far to much money in College Sports to change the system, but perhaps they could be required to insure players for a number of years if they don't go on to a professional sports career.
5. If this does move and is upheld and they somehow can figure out a way to translate this to public schools the consequences are far more reaching than we can imagine. If the schools are "compensating" these athletes at say 60K a year (School, room, board, books etc...) then the athlete now has to pay taxes on such compensation. They now have to find 10K in cash to pay the IRS?


And down the rabbit hole we go....
I dont believe the scholarships would be the taxable income, but i guess that would get tricky.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:41 AM   #37
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Without knowing a ton about this (though I gather they arent looking for high salaries, though it might turn into that), theres a couple things about college football that bother me.

1) they can take away scholarships from injured players.
2) college players dont get paid when their likeness is used (video games..etc..and thats absurd)

Also, i believe there still is a health insurance issue, so im not sure if the idea that "the school pays for everything" is even true.
I don't know where this folly came that schools take scholarships away from injured players. I've played in I-A & I-AA. Any athlete who suffers an injury that is either career threatening or the player wishes to discontinue playing because of risk is allowed to stay on scholarship through their five years. You still have to be part of the team and earn some keep, say working in the film department video taping practice, or doing things in the equipment/weight rooms or assisting coaches in practice. Nobody is booted from the team unless they fail on their own... miss class, failure to attend meetings/workouts, constantly tardy, legal issue, etc. Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about and has not been in college athletics.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:47 AM   #38
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I don't know where this folly came that schools take scholarships away from injured players. I've played in I-A & I-AA. Any athlete who suffers an injury that is either career threatening or the player wishes to discontinue playing because of risk is allowed to stay on scholarship through their five years. You still have to be part of the team and earn some keep, say working in the film department video taping practice, or doing things in the equipment/weight rooms or assisting coaches in practice. Nobody is booted from the team unless they fail on their own... miss class, failure to attend meetings/workouts, constantly tardy, legal issue, etc. Anybody who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about and has not been in college athletics.
It was one of the things on their list of things to fight for.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:47 AM   #39
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another thing. While there might have to be some parameters, why can't college players secure endorsement deals?
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:53 AM   #40
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I dont believe the scholarships would be the taxable income, but i guess that would get tricky.
If they are employees, under the current IRS rules it certainly would be taxable income. Is is possible congress exempts that, but a change would have to be made.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:53 AM   #41
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another thing. While there might have to be some parameters, why can't college players secure endorsement deals?
Reggie Bush - Trojan Man.

I like it! But that pretty much also answers why.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:55 AM   #42
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If they are employees, under the current IRS rules it certainly would be taxable income. Is is possible congress exempts that, but a change would have to be made.
I think all their education expenses would be deductible though, so at the end of the day they'd probably end up on the EIC.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:10 AM   #43
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I think all their education expenses would be deductible though, so at the end of the day they'd probably end up on the EIC.
I think there is a limit on how much are deductible at this point in time. I though I could only deduct like $2500, but that might have been from loan interest. ****ing IRS rules are way too complicated.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:18 AM   #44
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I think there is a limit on how much are deductible at this point in time. I though I could only deduct like $2500, but that might have been from loan interest. ****ing IRS rules are way too complicated.
I think you're thinking of credits. I think the education credit limit is something like that. But I also think pretty much everything you spend out of pocket on education can be deducted from taxable income.

I'm sure there are limits there as well, but it should be well north of average tuition at most major Division 1 colleges.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:23 AM   #45
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It was one of the things on their list of things to fight for.
I'm not buying that. I think if a player was kicked off scholarship by a school via injury, there would be legal ramifications for that. As I mentioned in my time, that never happened. They would re-assign injured players to do other tasks while allowing them to fullfill their scholarship and graduate. The graduation rate if i recall directly impacts ncaa standards and how many potential scholarships they can offer. Schools are applied to a standard in this regard and there is incentive for schools to keep all players on track unless refuse to perform duties called out on their scholarship.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:40 AM   #46
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This should do wonders for their recruiting
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:31 AM   #47
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:13 AM   #48
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[*]Ultimately if it holds, it's probably going to break the college athletics system completely. Which is unfortunate.[/list]

I respectfully disagree. I feel that the current college athletics system as administered by the NCAA is so completely corrupt that it's complete dissolution is the only viable remedy.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #49
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Neat. And this is a win for the ability of A SINGLE SCHOOL to organize. Something tells me the kids at Middle Western Kentucky State (safety school) won't be doing likewise, and if they do, it'll show that the school doesn't get anything out of those athletes.

Schools in BCS conferences with huge stadiums make the money. They do. Comparing them to Middle Western Kentucky State does nothing to further your argument.
You justified this particular development because "colleges" in general supposedly make huge sums of money. When I pointed out the flaw in looking them as a whole (because many don't make huge sums of money), you want to go back to just focusing on Northwestern. Thus, the flaw in the line of reasoning is revealed and your argument can be discarded.
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:48 AM   #50
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Nobody is using the pictures and uniform numbers of female athletes in those sports to sell jerseys and season tickets and video games.
Not true except for the video game reference
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