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Old 03-13-2014, 10:28 AM   #1
iforgotmypassword
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Default More true 3-4 this year???

I know I'll get murdered for this in dramatic Orangemane fashion....

I also know Fox and Del Rio have never used a 3-4 in the true form, so they almost certainly will not this year READ THAT AGAIN BEFORE YOU MAKE THE ENTIRE THREAD ABOUT THIS

But for the sake off the off-season let me make my argument for it.

In a coaching sense... you put your best players on the field, in the best position for them to be successful. Here is our projected lineup in a 3-4

FS Rahim Moore
SS (roams) Ward



ILB - Trevathon ILB - ?-?-?
CB1 Talib CB 2 Harris

OLB - Ware OLB - Von
DE - Wolfe NG Pot Roast - DE Vick/Sly

Think about who this helps as far as playing to their strengths....

Von Miller- not a true MIKE or SAM, never has been, he a 3-4 pass rushing outbacker, this will help him tremendously.

Ware - read above, insert DE for MIKE/SAM

Trevathon - Trevathon is Linebacker who plays in space.... He is elite at playing lateral football, he is below average at taking on blockers. Given the 300 pounders will be lining up, he will be allowed to play side to side football.

Wolfe - Is wolfe a strong side DE?? is he a UT?? You tell me, because I'm pretty sure he is basically our "swing guard" on the defensive side of the football, this puts him in a position that is natural to his strengths/body build.

The players is hurts....

Probably Pot Roast but not necessarily.

Vickerson is a wash, he would be a great 3-4 DE

Sly... this Defense does not play into Sly's style of play, he could ultimately be hurt by this.


So.... that's my take on it... we are one player middle backer from having an absolutely outstanding 3-4 Defense. Darryl Smith??

DT is a strength of this team, DE is an absolute weakness of this team minus Ware... now we are playing all 4 of our stud DT's while keeping Ware on the field, him and Von move to more natural positions and we allow Trevathon to play his game. Still need to fill that middlebacker spot, and obviously in whatever defense we play we could use a nickel corner.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:33 AM   #2
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I am going to try and not kill you in OM "style"

However, I think your making broad projections and assumptions about going to a 3-4 base defense. I highly expect Fox and Del Rio to stay with their preferred 4-3 Under base and will use elements of other fronts more often if the personnel is advantageous to the scheme they are playing against.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:35 AM   #3
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I realize that, paragraph 2.

My argument is simply that we could be better in a 3-4 than a 4-3 under/hybrid/base your lineup around von D.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iforgotmypassword View Post
I realize that, paragraph 2.

My argument is simply that we could be better in a 3-4 than a 4-3 under/hybrid/base your lineup around von D.
I know and I do not agree. You are making broad changes to the way the current DL plays gaps and you are effectively changing the scheme that has been in place for 2 years. This is not just on paper, it is a reality and it would hurt the Defense mentally which was already a major issue last year, especially on the back end.

Most of these guys are NOT 3-4 skillset strong and it would require a totally different draft board than what DEN has already put together as well. They are finally able to get value picks in the mid rounds based on scheme Identification. If they change now, they blow up 8 months of scouting work and we Josh McDaniels the draft with 30 players on the board at best.

I think we will run some exotic fronts on 3rd and long situations and that will be the extent of the 3 DL utilization.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:55 AM   #5
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I agree with the draft process.... Also it takes our depth from amazing to ****.

But it doesn't screw up anything on the back-end. Zone rotations change a little bit but for the most part the back-end of football is separate from the 3-4/4-3.

Everything is hybrid anymore, and I think we can switch between the two defenses pretty easily depending on who is on the field, but with Von/Ware both out there, I think this is our best lineup.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:56 AM   #6
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1 GAP!P!!!P!!P!P!P!P!P!P!!P!

Von Miller is the only player in the front 7 this "might" benefit. this would be the ultimate of stupid. Sorry password forgetter, bu, just no.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:02 AM   #7
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1 GAP!P!!!P!!P!P!P!P!P!P!!P!

Von Miller is the only player in the front 7 this "might" benefit. this would be the ultimate of stupid. Sorry password forgetter, bu, just no.
Ware? I'm assuming you're smart enough to say this will benefit Ware.

So the only two people it's benefitting are the two most talented people on our front 7, and probably entire defense.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:05 AM   #8
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We 2 gap and 1 gap in our current scheme. For the millionth time we are a 4-3 that can play and uses elements of the 3-4. No need to change our hybrid scheme.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:12 AM   #9
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I think JDR has his (nearly) perfect world; A couple of killer pass rushers and a bunch of Dlinemen who can completely shut down the run in the middle. He'll want to get them all out there on the field as often as possible.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:34 AM   #10
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I hear we'll be using more of a 3 gap system this year
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:35 AM   #11
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I just hope these new pieces mean the end of the soft cover-2.
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDongJohnson View Post
I hear we'll be using more of a 3 gap system this year
Nope. Wrong. You are so dead wrong.

5 gap. 5 gap until you can't fit any more in the gap.

Gap!
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:44 AM   #13
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Just like razor blades - more is better. JDR will figure out how to 6 gap. 6 I tells ya!
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:35 PM   #14
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WE RUN A 4-3 AND USE SOME 3-4 PRINCIPALS DUH!!!!!!!

You guys always say this crap. Alllllllways! Do you really know what it means?!?!?!

I'll not get into techniques... let's keep this simple.

Your gaps joke below make me think you know the concept......

A one gap... you attack your gap, mostly to get penetration, hurry the QB, create a lane for the blitzer.

A two gap is the read-and-react defense... you play head up with an o-lineman, see which way he wants to take you and attack his outside shoulder.

Simple enough?! Right... everyone here understand that basic concept of football.

So people say we 2 gap and 1 gap, its our 4-3 hybrid! Correct? Stay with me....which in and of itself is not a "hybrid". Last year, post Von, we were running a good ole 4-3. Nothing Hybrid about it. Two D-Ends, Pot Roast was playing a 2-gap NG over the their guard and the other DT, usually Sly, was playing a 1-gap UT. We were running a pure 4-3. We were 2 gapping and we were 1 gapping, but it certainly wasn't hybrid.

So where does our Hybrid come from We play one of our DE's as a 2 gap 3-4 DE, so that we can bring Von off the edge, as a 3-4 blitzing outbacker.... the other side of the line we play as a 4-3. To go further with this concept we can see why we don't have/need a true 3 down 4-3 MLB like a Brian Urlacher type that everyone here is dying to have.

So we currently run one of our D-ends like a 3-4 DE and play Von, like a blitzing 3-4 outbacker.... if you don't agree with this you're simply wrong.

All I'm really suggesting here is that since we have identified players on this roster who can play that 3-4 DE well, and we've identified that we don't have any good true 4-3 DE's minus Ware... who is naturally a 3-4 outside blitzing outbacker. We shift one side of our line so that Ware can play his natural position and we can keep the strength of our team (DT's) on the field and keep the weakness (DE's) off the field.

I think I made that simple enough.... so people can stop blindly saying "WE HAVE A 4-3 1 GAPPEROO HYRBID (BOY I LIKE SAYING HYBRID) 3-4 YOU BIG DUMMY WE GAP.. GAP... WE GAAPPPPPP HOW WE WANT!!!!" no ****.

To play devil's advocate... the downside is that Pot Roast would play his same 2 Gap NG position but he would do it over the C and not the G, making it a lot easier to double team him. Also our middle backers roles would change... although I think it would be good for Trevathon and mostly our middles are non-existent as it.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:51 PM   #15
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Nothing changes on the D except we get tougher and have a more effective pass rush. Fox and Del Rio are not going to suddenly change what they do. Now if we get a stud MLB then we likely don't use nickel quite as much but other than that nothing will change.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:57 PM   #16
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Noted. Paragraph 2. Original post. We all realize this is 99% not going to happen.

Wanted to talk some X's and O's about our current personnel group. Apparently this is impossible on the OM.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:58 PM   #17
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I think that generally, the 3-4 tends to be a more passive, read and react kind of D emphasizing blocking assignments, whereas the 4-3 allows JDR to create more aggressive gameplans, especially with the LBs (he used to be one), which is what he prefers. Even if he has the personnel for it, I think he prefers to have four D linemen up front.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #18
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if the Broncos can get back to what they were doing in 2012, that's all I care about.

that D was the perfect compliment to the O.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I think JDR has his (nearly) perfect world; A couple of killer pass rushers and a bunch of Dlinemen who can completely shut down the run in the middle. He'll want to get them all out there on the field as often as possible.
Which is most certainly a 3-4 Front.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:04 PM   #20
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I always attack the gap looking for penetration.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:04 PM   #21
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Which is most certainly a 3-4 Front.
I think he'd rather have the LBs attacking the ball than eating up blockers.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:05 PM   #22
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I think across the line we are strictly 4-3, but I do see us employing more 3-4 alignments to take advantage of Ware and Von's strengths. So I say we remain a base 4-3 and move into 3-4 on occasion.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:06 PM   #23
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I think that generally, the 3-4 tends to be a more passive, read and react kind of D emphasizing blocking assignments, whereas the 4-3 allows JDR to create more aggressive gameplans, especially with the LBs (he used to be one), which is what he prefers. Even if he has the personnel for it, I think he prefers to have four D linemen up front.
Thank you for a logical, football talk, response.

3-4 is more of a read and re-act when you play up-field D-ends, or your NG sucks, because ultimately the guards are trying to get to the middles. Think Wade Phillips D... Bruce Smith... JJ Twat... they play up field, then your middle backers can't play aggressive because they actually have to beat their guard.

What I'm suggesting, is more a Baltimore Ravens 3-4, where we put 3 300 pound men up front, we know were going to occupy blockers, so our middle backers play fast and aggressive and usually untouched.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:13 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I always attack the gap looking for penetration.


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Old 03-13-2014, 01:21 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Noted. Paragraph 2. Original post. We all realize this is 99% not going to happen.

Wanted to talk some X's and O's about our current personnel group. Apparently this is impossible on the OM.
Normally I would talk this through with you, however we still have the draft and the rest of FA to see how this plays out. I am just too busy to get really detailed. Let's table this and put it on the shelf till May and we can really talk about fronts. (Over, Under, Navajo, Even, Stinger, Fox, FUP, SUP and LB alignments)

Deal? I would love to talk real football right here and right now, but my Job just kicked my ass 2 hours ago and I have zero time.
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