The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-12-2014, 08:33 AM   #26
Action
Ring of Famer
 
Action's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Broncos
Posts: 2,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Isaiah Burse
Default

Oh transition Tender...interesting. Yeah, we'll probably pick that up...but I assume we'll also try to work a deal if possible.
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:35 AM   #27
crush17
orange & blue
 
crush17's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 5,252

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thanks Champ!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
Oh transition Tender...interesting. Yeah, we'll probably pick that up...but I assume we'll also try to work a deal if possible.
Point is, the Broncos don't have to do anything until after 2015 with Von.
crush17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:37 AM   #28
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
If you learn how to read, and count, it's not 36m available....and it's not needing to replace 18 guys considering some of those will come off the roster this year anyways + rookies.

Obviously, this being a non-Chargers topic is hindering your thinking a bit.
Whether you replace them this year or next, by a rookie or a free agent, their replacement will still draw a salary and count against the cap. It is also quite likely that some of them will be resigned at much higher cap numbers or be replaced by players who account for much more cap space.

The overall point being that between taking on big free agent contracts and awarding new contracts to your core group of rookies like Miller and the Thomas', the Broncos are going to wind up more strapped for cap space than you are thinking.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 08:50 AM   #29
Action
Ring of Famer
 
Action's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Broncos
Posts: 2,140

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Isaiah Burse
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
Whether you replace them this year or next, by a rookie or a free agent, their replacement will still draw a salary and count against the cap. It is also quite likely that some of them will be resigned at much higher cap numbers or be replaced by players who account for much more cap space.

The overall point being that between taking on big free agent contracts and awarding new contracts to your core group of rookies like Miller and the Thomas', the Broncos are going to wind up more strapped for cap space than you are thinking.
This a pointless debate. You're making assumptions. I'm giving you facts. You have no idea of the contracts that will be given out... You have no idea of anything really. You're whole motivation of everything stems from jealously.

Will we have to make some sacrifices down the road? Possibly. But as I said you don't have the books in Denver and neither do I.

I highly doubt one of the smartest FO is going Jerry Jones reckless without next year in mind. You talking as if they don't know they have to resign players next year and year after.

I hope you also realize the signings we made so far were money free up by 2 other players that were releases/retired.
Action is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:03 AM   #30
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
Whether you replace them this year or next, by a rookie or a free agent, their replacement will still draw a salary and count against the cap. It is also quite likely that some of them will be resigned at much higher cap numbers or be replaced by players who account for much more cap space.

The overall point being that between taking on big free agent contracts and awarding new contracts to your core group of rookies like Miller and the Thomas', the Broncos are going to wind up more strapped for cap space than you are thinking.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...&highlight=cap

Here is the reality. If your team isn't spending, then they are cheap. The cap is soaring, the NFL's revenue is soaring, the cap is going up up up. Teams won't have that many cap problems going forward.

Cheapo SD is just cheap dude. Get over it.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:08 AM   #31
eddie mac
Ireland's No1 Bronco
 
eddie mac's Avatar
 
Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 16,691

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rod Smith
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
Point being that $36m available to replace 18 players isn't all that great.
It wont be 18, only 4 of Elway's 23 draft picks are no longer with the team, thus you can add another 5-6 players on long-term rookie contracts who'll be here next year and beyond from the 2014 draft, not to mention the amount of undrafted free agents that normally make our roster each season usually 2-3.

In actual fact before we add Ward/Talib or even Ware, the Broncos have over $68m in caproom for 2015 which includes Von Miller's $9.8m option, based on the anticipated $143m cap number.

Then remember that any re-signings in 2015 will have relatively a lower first year cap number as 2/3 of the NFL Teams do when extending rookie contracts.
eddie mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:12 AM   #32
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Manning will be retiring by then and then boom, another 20 mil comes free. Broncos are all in now and don't care too much about 2-3 yrs from now.

Meanwhile Chargers will still suck.
I'm definitely envious of Denver's cap situation going into the upcoming season. That tends to go in cycles, though. Your core of young players who were on cheap deals start getting raises, and the free agent contracts that were palatable with $30m of spare cap room start looking a lot less attractive. That's how it goes for most every team.

I'm not criticizing Denver's signings, I'm just pointing out they won't have $30m in cap space again next season.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:13 AM   #33
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,299

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

No reason to worry about the cap.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:17 AM   #34
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Our defense if we score Ware might make the Chargers need a new QB before the Broncos do lol.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:19 AM   #35
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
I'm definitely envious of Denver's cap situation going into the upcoming season. That tends to go in cycles, though. Your core of young players who were on cheap deals start getting raises, and the free agent contracts that were palatable with $30m of spare cap room start looking a lot less attractive. That's how it goes for most every team.

I'm not criticizing Denver's signings, I'm just pointing out they won't have $30m in cap space again next season.
Next season you will be bummed when manning renegotiates. Then you will say yeah but when Manning retires the next yr you guys will be ****ed. But then the cap will go up to 160 million and you will see that the CBA was designed to reach a point the cap isn't an issue unless the team doesn't spend enough of it.

The teams not spending are the ones who either spend so much last few yrs they are screwed this yr, or they are cheap.

The Broncos are probably sitting pretty because by the time it matter, Manning will be retired.

The rebuilding will be looking for a new QB not the cap.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:19 AM   #36
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Any team with a QB they think can win it all, that they don't equip with best weapons they can get, are cheap.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:20 AM   #37
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...&highlight=cap

Here is the reality. If your team isn't spending, then they are cheap. The cap is soaring, the NFL's revenue is soaring, the cap is going up up up. Teams won't have that many cap problems going forward.

Cheapo SD is just cheap dude. Get over it.
San Diego was actually in a position similar to where Denver is now back in 2006-2008, when we were still good. Great drafts between 2004-2006 gave us a solid core of young players on cheap contracts. As those rookie contracts expired, the cap situation deteriorated. That's just the way of things.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:22 AM   #38
boltaneer
17
 
boltaneer's Avatar
 
ATTA BABY!

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: America's Finest City
Posts: 4,373
Default

I've been looking at the Broncos contracts and they'll be in good shape when Manning retires, whether it's next year or in two years. But a good chunk of that cap space will be eaten by Von Miller and DThomas and JThomas and/or then finding good replacements for them and a couple of other key positions However, Osweiler is a total question mark and will be be a free agent n two years so who knows how competitive they will be anyway.
boltaneer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:23 AM   #39
Orange Habit
Rookie
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 52
Default

It's simply too early to tell what the cap implications are going to be. Once we get the details of the Ward and Talib contracts, as well as Ware or whoever else they sign, then we'll get a little more clarity.
Orange Habit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:23 AM   #40
Drunken.Broncoholic2
Pickled in orange & blue
 
Drunken.Broncoholic2's Avatar
 
OnLyNiNjAsCaNrEaDtHiSQuOtE

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Carmel, Ca
Posts: 5,616

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
San Diego was actually in a position similar to where Denver is now back in 2006-2008, when we were still good. Great drafts between 2004-2006 gave us a solid core of young players on cheap contracts. As those rookie contracts expired, the cap situation deteriorated. That's just the way of things.
SD had Mike Sullivan too?


We have the best cap guru in the business.

Too bad TV contracts didnt balloon the cap ceiling back then.
Drunken.Broncoholic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:24 AM   #41
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

You aren't getting it 400hz. That was the early days of the CBA but now the revenue going up so high it is working out much different.

The cap is flying up up up and more and more rookies are ready to play. The new rule about not being able to renegotiate with rookies for 3 yrs into the league have made more underclassmen declare for draft.

It forces out even more vets for cheap rookies. The owners biggest issue going forward past 2016 is having to spend enough of the cap lol.

So the situation broncos will be in in 2015-2017 is vastly different from what the Chargers or any team faced in 2006-2008.

Do you get it?
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:29 AM   #42
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Any team with a QB they think can win it all, that they don't equip with best weapons they can get, are cheap.
I think you're right, but we're still waiting to see if it that approach pays off. Contrast Denver's approach to New England's. New England is perennially in contention in large part because they are financially disciplined year-after-year. At the same time, that approach leaves weak spots on their roster, and they haven't won a Superbowl since 2004. If Denver wins it all this year or next, then you can say Elway was right.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:35 AM   #43
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
You aren't getting it 400hz. That was the early days of the CBA but now the revenue going up so high it is working out much different.

The cap is flying up up up and more and more rookies are ready to play. The new rule about not being able to renegotiate with rookies for 3 yrs into the league have made more underclassmen declare for draft.

It forces out even more vets for cheap rookies. The owners biggest issue going forward past 2016 is having to spend enough of the cap lol.

So the situation broncos will be in in 2015-2017 is vastly different from what the Chargers or any team faced in 2006-2008.

Do you get it?
We'll see. Or maybe the Bidwells, Mike Browns, and Ralph Wilsons of the league will keep a lid on things. A $160m cap in 2016 is just a wild guess at this point. The real cap for 2014 wasn't even calculated up until just a few weeks ago.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:37 AM   #44
400HZ
Ring of Famer
 
400HZ's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,465

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ed Hochuli
Default

Also, big contracts tend to lead themselves to dead money in your salary cap.
400HZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:39 AM   #45
boltaneer
17
 
boltaneer's Avatar
 
ATTA BABY!

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: America's Finest City
Posts: 4,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...&highlight=cap

Here is the reality. If your team isn't spending, then they are cheap. The cap is soaring, the NFL's revenue is soaring, the cap is going up up up. Teams won't have that many cap problems going forward.

Cheapo SD is just cheap dude. Get over it.
Incorrect.

The Chargers have a lot of cap space tied up in later years of contracts with a number of players right now. (Rivers, Hardwick, Clary, Gates, Weddle) and of those guys, they're probably not going to extend Hardwick and Gates just to free space this year. Telesco is doing the smart thing and not taking out the credit card because next year is the year, a lot of bad contract dead money from AJ Smith comes off the books (They have over $12 million in dead money this year and that dead money has hindered their free agent spending last year and this year.

I'm not sure though that they will go out and spend in free agency next year, even though they will have cap space to do so. In general, the better teams draft well and pay their own and Telesco has stated that's the philosophy that he wants to follow and they'll have some players they will need to extend soon (Rivers, Liuget, Reyes, Ingram, Green, Wright).
boltaneer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:47 AM   #46
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Good. I am glad the Chargers are rolling over this yr.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:48 AM   #47
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
Also, big contracts tend to lead themselves to dead money in your salary cap.
Talib is what 26 mil over 3 yrs. Then Broncos can move on. That really isn't that outrageous when you consider all the avg players getting 5 mil a yr.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:48 AM   #48
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

By 2016 that cap will be 30 mil more then right now. What don't you get about that 400?
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:49 AM   #49
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

That is enough to sign any qb plus another elite NFL player. Chargers should be looking to get better and match the Broncos. Instead like you said, they seem to thing we will wait for Manning to retire then hope the Broncos suck.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2014, 09:50 AM   #50
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,648
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400HZ View Post
I think you're right, but we're still waiting to see if it that approach pays off. Contrast Denver's approach to New England's. New England is perennially in contention in large part because they are financially disciplined year-after-year. At the same time, that approach leaves weak spots on their roster, and they haven't won a Superbowl since 2004. If Denver wins it all this year or next, then you can say Elway was right.
Wrong they are good because of Brady, and just like SD they are blowing it right now. NE should be loading up weapons for Brady.

If Ne wasn't cheap they would head after Revis, but they probably won't.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Denver Broncos