The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-15-2014, 10:12 PM   #151
Quoydogs
I can fix it .
 
Quoydogs's Avatar
 
Here's Johnny !

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 4,285

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Monte Ball
Default

If they were on a suicide mission don't you think before they downed the plane they would have said who or why they were doing it. Its not like they could stop them.
Quoydogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2014, 10:43 PM   #152
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoydogs View Post
If they were on a suicide mission don't you think before they downed the plane they would have said who or why they were doing it. Its not like they could stop them.
True. Fanatics who want to carry out that kind of attack want the world to know about it. They're not going to fly into the ocean a thousand miles from the nearest point of land where nobody can see it.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2014, 10:50 PM   #153
Quoydogs
I can fix it .
 
Quoydogs's Avatar
 
Here's Johnny !

Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 4,285

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Monte Ball
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
True. Fanatics who want to carry out that kind of attack want the world to know about it. They're not going to fly into the ocean a thousand miles from the nearest point of land where nobody can see it.
Agreed. This whole thing is just strange.
Quoydogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 07:23 AM   #154
Old Dude
Super Moderator
 
Old Dude's Avatar
 
Consultant

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: DIA Tunnels
Posts: 15,113
Default

I'm certainly no expert about anything.

However, David Soucie, from Silverthorne, CO, is an expert, a former pilot and FAA inspector who specializes in the investigation of plane crashes. He's been part of the FAA's Safety Management Committee.

He's been interviewed on CNN several times this week, and one of the things he suggested strikes me as very interesting. According to Soucie, the plane had two transponders, a primary and a backup, both of which could be turned on or off in the cockpit.

But the plane also had an ACARS system, which was disabled just a few minutes before the plane flew over the east coast of the Malaysian Peninsula.

The ACARS system sends bundles of information about the plane's status and performance to satellites. It cannot be deactivated or even accessed from the cockpit.

In order to "turn it off," a person would have to throw a breaker switch in an electronics bay. According to Soucie, access to the bay in question on this particular model of plane was through a hatch in the galley area (under a carpet). A special screwdriver is necessary to open the hatch. Then a person would have to descend into the bay to get to the breakers.

Although throwing the breaker switch would stop transmissions of data, it would not necessarily stop the system from "pinging" the satellite. But it would be like periodic incomplete phone calls, with no data to transmit. That's apparently what happened here, until the plane finally got out of range.

Sources now report that the ACARS data transmissions stopped about 14 minutes before the transponders were turned off.

So, and here's where I'm just speculating, if you had third-party hijackers here, it seems like you'd have to have at least three of them: one to take control of the cabin (and either fly the plane or coerce the pilots), one to crawl down into the ACARS system, and at least one to manage the passengers and flight attendants while the other guy was disabling the ACARS.

On the other hand, it would be a lot easier for even a single pilot to manage all of this. (a) he excuses himself from the cockpit, (b) tells the crew he needs to access something in the electronics bay, (c) deactivates the ACARS (and whatever other electrical systems he wants), (d) returns to the cockpit and locks the door, then (e) takes control of the plane, turns off the transponders, and makes a routine progress call to his base, before flying off to gosh knows where.
Old Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 07:28 AM   #155
Tombstone RJ
Ring of Famer
 
Tombstone RJ's Avatar
 
Old School

Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Tetons!
Posts: 22,309

Adopt-a-Bronco:
WorrellWilliams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
I'm certainly no expert about anything.

However, David Soucie, from Silverthorne, CO, is an expert, a former pilot and FAA inspector who specializes in the investigation of plane crashes. He's been part of the FAA's Safety Management Committee.

He's been interviewed on CNN several times this week, and one of the things he suggested strikes me as very interesting. According to Soucie, the plane had two transponders, a primary and a backup, both of which could be turned on or off in the cockpit.

But the plane also had an ACARS system, which was disabled just a few minutes before the plane flew over the east coast of the Malaysian Peninsula.

The ACARS system sends bundles of information about the plane's status and performance to satellites. It cannot be deactivated or even accessed from the cockpit.

In order to "turn it off," a person would have to throw a breaker switch in an electronics bay. According to Soucie, access to the bay in question on this particular model of plane was through a hatch in the galley area (under a carpet). A special screwdriver is necessary to open the hatch. Then a person would have to descend into the bay to get to the breakers.

Although throwing the breaker switch would stop transmissions of data, it would not necessarily stop the system from "pinging" the satellite. But it would be like periodic incomplete phone calls, with no data to transmit. That's apparently what happened here, until the plane finally got out of range.

Sources now report that the ACARS data transmissions stopped about 14 minutes before the transponders were turned off.

So, and here's where I'm just speculating, if you had third-party hijackers here, it seems like you'd have to have at least three of them: one to take control of the cabin (and either fly the plane or coerce the pilots), one to crawl down into the ACARS system, and at least one to manage the passengers and flight attendants while the other guy was disabling the ACARS.

On the other hand, it would be a lot easier for even a single pilot to manage all of this. (a) he excuses himself from the cockpit, (b) tells the crew he needs to access something in the electronics bay, (c) deactivates the ACARS (and whatever other electrical systems he wants), (d) returns to the cockpit and locks the door, then (e) takes control of the plane, turns off the transponders, and makes a routine progress call to his base, before flying off to gosh knows where.
Their were 2 ghosts on the plane and the pilots and all 4 are involved, this is the easiest explanation. The two ghosts handle the passengers and other crew members while the pilots do all the rest of the crap.
Tombstone RJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #156
WolfpackGuy
Call me, "Maybe"
 
WolfpackGuy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Delaware
Posts: 7,394
Default

A jealous significant other can put a GPS tracker on your car for less than a 100 bucks, but airlines can't do the same for a jumbo jet?

Come on, man!
WolfpackGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 08:50 AM   #157
ak1971
uhhhh
 
ak1971's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
I'm certainly no expert about anything.

However, David Soucie, from Silverthorne, CO, is an expert, a former pilot and FAA inspector who specializes in the investigation of plane crashes. He's been part of the FAA's Safety Management Committee.

He's been interviewed on CNN several times this week, and one of the things he suggested strikes me as very interesting. According to Soucie, the plane had two transponders, a primary and a backup, both of which could be turned on or off in the cockpit.

But the plane also had an ACARS system, which was disabled just a few minutes before the plane flew over the east coast of the Malaysian Peninsula.

The ACARS system sends bundles of information about the plane's status and performance to satellites. It cannot be deactivated or even accessed from the cockpit.

In order to "turn it off," a person would have to throw a breaker switch in an electronics bay. According to Soucie, access to the bay in question on this particular model of plane was through a hatch in the galley area (under a carpet). A special screwdriver is necessary to open the hatch. Then a person would have to descend into the bay to get to the breakers.

Although throwing the breaker switch would stop transmissions of data, it would not necessarily stop the system from "pinging" the satellite. But it would be like periodic incomplete phone calls, with no data to transmit. That's apparently what happened here, until the plane finally got out of range.

Sources now report that the ACARS data transmissions stopped about 14 minutes before the transponders were turned off.

So, and here's where I'm just speculating, if you had third-party hijackers here, it seems like you'd have to have at least three of them: one to take control of the cabin (and either fly the plane or coerce the pilots), one to crawl down into the ACARS system, and at least one to manage the passengers and flight attendants while the other guy was disabling the ACARS.

On the other hand, it would be a lot easier for even a single pilot to manage all of this. (a) he excuses himself from the cockpit, (b) tells the crew he needs to access something in the electronics bay, (c) deactivates the ACARS (and whatever other electrical systems he wants), (d) returns to the cockpit and locks the door, then (e) takes control of the plane, turns off the transponders, and makes a routine progress call to his base, before flying off to gosh knows where.
I've heard that Malaysian Air are a bunch of cheap asses and didn't have half this stuff turned on in the first place. They wouldn't pay for Boeings tracking systems etc.
ak1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 03:10 PM   #158
bombay
Ring of Famer
 
bombay's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: denver
Posts: 5,910
Default

http://www.bigbreakingnews.com/2014/...l#.UyYRY-mPKg2

Reddit users think they've located some debris from 370.
bombay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2014, 04:23 PM   #159
Bronco Yoda
.
 
Bronco Yoda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by i4jelway7 View Post
this could explain how the plane avoided radar

http://www.reddit.com/r/news/comment...flight/cg2uht6

Now THAT would be an incredible move.

I was watching a panel of talking head 'experts' today discussing this on CNN and they shut down the idea of the plane going north because of all the radar in that region. Didn't even consider shadowing another plane. How close would you have to follow to effectively avoid radar I wonder?
Bronco Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 12:47 PM   #160
Kid A
Ring of Famer
 
Kid A's Avatar
 
I don't need love. I just need wins

Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,425

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rahim Moore
Default





The images of the current search corridors look an awful lot like, uh, half of the ****ing globe. They seriously might not find this thing. What a nightmare for the families.
Kid A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 01:26 PM   #161
BroncoBuff
***************
 
BroncoBuff's Avatar
 
Playing for January

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 26,127

Adopt-a-Bronco:
MALIK+QUANTERUS
Default

Has anybody mentioned the plane might've simply been STOLEN?

Most of the circumstances fit ... 777's run a cool $200 million-plus. Whomever the "thieves" might be - whether governmental, military or private - they'd need another trip-7 of the same class (probably inoperable and irreparable) to provide a legit ID for the stolen plane.

If the passengers suddenly show up on a bus in China or someplace, I think we have a winner
BroncoBuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 01:40 PM   #162
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Here is the scenario i dread. They highjack another 777 on route to NYC (or some other major US city) and substitute the 2nd plane with the first 777 which is now loaded with a nuke. All the tracking systems assume it is the first scheduled flight and pay it no mind. Then BOOM!
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:05 PM   #163
DenverBound
Thanks for the memories
 
DenverBound's Avatar
 
This one's for Pat!

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,025
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
Here is the scenario i dread. They highjack another 777 on route to NYC (or some other major US city) and substitute the 2nd plane with the first 777 which is now loaded with a nuke. All the tracking systems assume it is the first scheduled flight and pay it no mind. Then BOOM!
That's ****ing scary.
DenverBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:08 PM   #164
DENVERDUI55
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,744

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
Here is the scenario i dread. They highjack another 777 on route to NYC (or some other major US city) and substitute the 2nd plane with the first 777 which is now loaded with a nuke. All the tracking systems assume it is the first scheduled flight and pay it no mind. Then BOOM!
It isn't possible though. No way what they pulled off happens in the US.
DENVERDUI55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:10 PM   #165
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
It isn't possible though. No way what they pulled off happens in the US.

The second scheduled flight could originate anywhere, say like near where the first one is now parked.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:25 PM   #166
crowebomber
Ring of Famer
 
crowebomber's Avatar
 
Old School Sucka Fool

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: P-Town
Posts: 1,612

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Frank Tripucka
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja View Post
The second scheduled flight could originate anywhere, say like near where the first one is now parked.
I just read that each plane sends a unique signal identifying itself, and it cannot be switched to look like another plane. Here's the quote:

"...signals from commercial aircraft to Inmarsat satellites always include a code confirming the identity of the plane.

An Inmarsat official, while declining to discuss specifics of Flight 370, tells CNN the satellite system is highly reliable, that each signal to an aircraft is met by a return signal and that those signals always contains a code verifying the identity of the aircraft.

It is "virtually impossible" to change an aircraft's identifying code or to confuse one aircraft with another, the Inmarsat official said."
crowebomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:26 PM   #167
ludo21
RIP Darrent Williams
 
ludo21's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 20,076

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Paul Ernster
Default

the plane coming back around with no detection is definitely scary, regardless the city
ludo21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:31 PM   #168
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 55,935

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

We never found out what happened to the squadron of navy planes that disappeared off Florida in the forties, or to the crews that were sent out to look for them and also disappeared.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:33 PM   #169
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crowebomber View Post
I just read that each plane sends a unique signal identifying itself, and it cannot be switched to look like another plane. Here's the quote:

"...signals from commercial aircraft to Inmarsat satellites always include a code confirming the identity of the plane.

An Inmarsat official, while declining to discuss specifics of Flight 370, tells CNN the satellite system is highly reliable, that each signal to an aircraft is met by a return signal and that those signals always contains a code verifying the identity of the aircraft.

It is "virtually impossible" to change an aircraft's identifying code or to confuse one aircraft with another, the Inmarsat official said."
I was hoping that was the case. Wonder if the second plane's apparatus that contain this code could be transferred to the nuked up plane?
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:36 PM   #170
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
We never found out what happened to the squadron of navy planes that disappeared off Florida in the forties, or to the crews that were sent out to look for them and also disappeared.
They now think they ran out of fuel and crashed in the Okefenokee swamp
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:46 PM   #171
Bronco Yoda
.
 
Bronco Yoda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,424
Default

Spielberg found them in the Desert around the time we went to and lost our first Super Bowl. Now all this.... coincidence?

Bronco Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 02:59 PM   #172
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 10,760

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

I sense a cover up. Somebody most likely knows more then they are saying. The plane signals get turned off. Then it does a 180 and heads back to and is flying over Malaysia airspace. It wouldn't surprise me if the Malaysia airforce shot down this plane to avoid that plane being a 911 type of instrument of destruction. There's no wreckage at sea to be found if they plane had crashed in the sea. It's virtually not realistic the plane was stolen and has been flying to some other location. Most of those passengers were Chinese. If the Chinese found out Malaysia shot down that plane, that would be very very bad for Malaysia.

I'm obviously speculating but I do think something is being covered up here.
ZONA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 03:06 PM   #173
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

I find it interesting the captain of flight 370 is/was a aeronautics buff, even built a flight simulator in his basement.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 03:11 PM   #174
stoxman
Ring of Famer
 
stoxman's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,174

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZONA View Post
I sense a cover up. Somebody most likely knows more then they are saying. The plane signals get turned off. Then it does a 180 and heads back to and is flying over Malaysia airspace. It wouldn't surprise me if the Malaysia airforce shot down this plane to avoid that plane being a 911 type of instrument of destruction. There's no wreckage at sea to be found if they plane had crashed in the sea. It's virtually not realistic the plane was stolen and has been flying to some other location. Most of those passengers were Chinese. If the Chinese found out Malaysia shot down that plane, that would be very very bad for Malaysia.

I'm obviously speculating but I do think something is being covered up here.
There would be evidence (smoke, ruins) of shooting down the plane. What is so bizarre here is that we have nothing to go on.
stoxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2014, 03:13 PM   #175
baja
Headmaster
 
baja's Avatar
 
The Fixer

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the present moment
Posts: 61,396

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C J Anderson
Default

Maybe;

By design it was flown through a portal into another dimension.
baja is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Denver Broncos